Philosophical debates and logic puzzles

[ayesha.a]

Can you scientifically prove to a blind man that color exists ?

Not "prove", but you can demonstrate. Take two objects identical in all respects, except their color. Say, a blue cube and a red cube. Have him hold them in either hand of his. (ie, one in each hand.) Then close your eyes or leave the room, and give him the choice to either move the cubes from his left hand to his right and vice versa, or not move. Then walk back to him, and tell him if he has switched the cubes or not. If you can tell that correctly each time, then he will have to accept that you have a sensor that he lacks, and that there is a certain quality to be sensed - which you call color. (Since the cubes are identical in all other aspects, he cannot correctly distinguish between the cubes, but you can.)

You cannot of course make him understand what color is - just like we don't know how the world looks like in UV light, but cats do. But you can demonstrate that there is a quality that he cannot sense, but you can. You call it 'color', but any other name would do as well.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

There's a difference between assembling other robots and "producing" one of your own. Robots cant "produce"!
Frankly I would not call robots human because they 're different by all means.They'll remain robots albeit they might supersede human intelligence one day.
Your question was what separates humans from AI isnt it?
The fact that AI was created by humans is what separates them from us... I think. Lol

Who says robots can't produce? Just as they can build, so too can they mine, refine and mold materials, shape them and impart learning onto them! It's already being done with robotic mining trucks. Can't we take this one step further and introduce an AI or deep learning algorithm into the robot to have it mine on its own and use the materias it gathers to build more robots?

Here's a fun article on the subject: The robots are now building other robots

Also @levina - what if, using genetic engineering, a robot creates a human? Do we become the machines?

 

[Armstrong]

This is difficult to show you on paper. But I kept going over and over the list of clues, eliminating things from the list each time. Until I was left with 2 different possible configurations for the last 3 houses, based on colour, I arranged, the houses with the rule in mind that the Green house has to be on the right of the white, and that the red belongs to the Englishman.

One way was unsolvable, it gave no way of resolving the houses 3 and 4 for the Spaniard and the Japanese man. The other way in my table gave a solution.

You must've had a perfect score in your SATs !

I tried solving it but then gave up because I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to find a piece of paper and pencil !

That does not mean that I'm stupid !

Maybe I just have an over occupied brain !

 

[Levina]

Well, I tried two ways.

The first was a lot of mess on a two page spread. I won't show you that, but the key was to make a table, draw out a list of all possibilities. I stole a table off of Google, started eliminating possibilities on the right, and then stopped and just deleted the possibility using MS paint, so you can't see the process, only a middle result and end.

SPOILER-

View attachment 186268

I left it as a thumbnail so not to spoil it for others.

Cool!
But how did you figure out the sequence of the houses and the color??

 

[Star Wars]

do we each live in our own universe, governed by our own times and laws? If so, that are we only perceiving others to obey the laws we set in our minds... Do those other people only exist as they do to us?

As i converse with you, am I actually doing so?

This is rather closer to the law of attraction theory. Its a belief that our minds and our thoughts create the reality around us. We attract what we focus on and on what we believe. If we focus on the negative we invite negative moments and focusing and believing the positive invites positive moments in life.

 

[Levina]

Who says robots can't produce? Just as they can build, so too can they mine, refine and mold materials, shape them and impart learning onto them! It's already being done with robotic mining trucks. Can't we take this one step further and introduce an AI or deep learning algorithm into the robot to have it mine on its own?

Here's a fun article on the subject: The robots are now building other robots

Also @levina - what if, using genetic engineering, a robot creates a human? Do we become the machines?

I meant they cant reproduce but merely assemble and build other similar robots.

Also @levina - what if, using genetic engineering, a robot creates a human? Do we become the machines?

Long shot!!
We will be called "whatever" the robot names us.

 

[jhungary]

I'll offer you the same question I offered previously. Assuming there is one universe, no supreme being and possibly multiple dimensions, what exists beyond the confines of our time and space? If we escape our universe, save for us existing in this void, would be find "nothing"?



You've done very well on the lateral/logic puzzles... But know this. Most of these were elementary school stuff. I've got a lot more difficult puzzles to offer

In the mean time, I have a philosophical question for you and others. As our computer algorithms become more capable of learning, assuming one can gain sentience, do we call it human? Does the AI not think or learn? Can it not learn to " feel" as humans do as they progress from infancy into adulthood? What separates humans from an AI?

The only thing that separate AI and Human is the way they process the information

Machine process information by logic, hence either true or false, even if you can make a program that can program itself (a la thinking), they could still not break out the 2 dimension thinking, either true or false.

Human thinks is multi-dimensional It's not just true and false. There are times the true outcome indeed is unwanted. Human learn that by experience, in machine time, they are call exception.

And human cannot teach machine to think even if you mean a self-replicating program are in place as Computer only process information and instruction, their "thinking" was indeed run through all the possible scenario. Which in the case of Chess, it's infinity.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

This is rather closer to the law of attraction theory. Its a belief that our minds and our thoughts create the reality around us. We attract what we focus on and on what we believe. If we focus on the negative we invite negative moments and focusing and believing the positive invites positive moments in life.

That is correct... In theory. But what of events I don't perceive? Does my subconscious create them world I don't experience? All the countries i'm not in march on and on, what guides them when I don't perceive them?

Long shot!!
We will be called "whatever" the robot names us.

Right, right, it may be a long shot - but remember, the goal here isn't to determine what is or is not possible or true, it's to think more in-depth. I feel too many people are getting caught up in what can happen now, not what can happen if given infinite time.

@jhungary - your position is good from a here and now standpoint, but can we say such will never happen? Ever? And if it does, how do we answer these questions?

 

[jhungary]

let me give you guys another hair scratcher

Barber Paradox

In a town, there are only 1 male barber, and all the male in this town are well groomed and never leave this town.
For the town male, there are two choices, either they shave themselves or ask the barber to shave them. But the local barber have 1 rule only, he only shave those who are unwilling to shave himself.

The paradox is, Who shave the barber?

 

[thesolar65]

Oh gaawwwd!
This is so very confusing.....I sat with a paper and pen and tried solving it for an hour or so then I fell asleep (my brain switches on sleep mode when it is over worked). I woke up sometime back and felt very lazzyyy to solve this puzzle so I'll wait for the champs here to solve this puzzle.
@Nihonjin1051 @Jungibaaz @Gufi @S.U.R.B. @acetophenol @kurup @OrionHunter @Dash @thesolar65 @Star Wars
And hey nooo cheating...wookay?

@Slav Defence @nair do visit this thread when free.

Arre Bhai, kal picnic hai. Soch raha hun picnic mein baith ke yeh sab karunga. Kyuon ki family picnic hai aur bahut fighting hone wala hai.!!

 

[Armstrong]

The only thing that separate AI and Human is the way they process the information

Machine process information by logic, hence either true or false, even if you can make a program that can program itself (a la thinking), they could still not break out the 2 dimension thinking, either true or false.

Human thinks is multi-dimensional It's not just true and false. There are times the true outcome indeed is unwanted. Human learn that by experience, in machine time, they are call exception.

And human cannot teach machine to think even if you mean a self-replicating program are in place as Computer only process information and instruction, their "thinking" was indeed run through all the possible scenario. Which in the case of Chess, it's infinity.

What if you make a self-evolving program ? One that could look beyond this binary of true and false ?

What would become of us then ? @SvenSvensonov what if Nietzsche's Ubermensch is not really a man but an AI that perfects our shortcomings and is the next evolutionary leap in life ?

 

[Star Wars]

That is correct... In theory. But what of events I don't perceive? Does my subconscious create them world I don't experience? All the countries i'm not in march on and on, what guides them when I don't perceive them?

There is a certain theory of super consciousness. 3rd form of consciousness 2nd being Subconscious and 1st being consciousness. Basic idea is that all 3 are connected and the more a person tries to explore the more the super consciousness creates. Which is basically why there is no edge to the universe and there is really no "smallest substance" as one keeps finder newer ones.

You may either like this or you may hate this with your gut depending on which side of the argument you stand.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

What if you make a self-evolving program ? One that could look beyond this binary of true and false ?

What would become of us then ? @SvenSvensonov what if Nietzsche's Ubermensch is not really a man but an AI that perfects our shortcomings and is the next evolutionary leap in life ?

I like your thinking @Armstrong perhaps we are just a self-correcting code. I would offer that humans are nothing more than that. We are a collection of data grouped into a single unit, but always making corrections to our code. Learning from our mistakes, new experiences and tribulations. Are we sure we are not machines?

 

[Armstrong]

let me give you guys another hair scratcher

Barber Paradox

In a town, there are only 1 male barber, and all the male in this town are well groomed and never leave this town.
For the town male, there are two choices, either they shave themselves or ask the barber to shave them. But the local barber have 1 rule only, he only shave those who are unwilling to shave himself.

The paradox is, Who shave the barber?

Is the barber a male or is he a 'male' barber; as in a barber for men ?

 

[Levina]

Right, right, it may be a long shot - but remember, the goal here isn't to determine what is or is not possible or true, it's to think more in-depth. I feel too many people are getting caught up in what can happen now, not what can happen if given infinite time.

Introspective!
We live in a world which is changing very fast, the issue is we have very vague definitions of human beings and robots.
But to a human being robots will always be artificial for it was created by a human. So AI will remain AI isnt it?