Philosophical debates and logic puzzles

[Developereo]

Yes, I do at least.

This begs the question: is your feeling of kinship to bonobo like that of a zookeeper, a pet owner, or a concerned humanitarian?

Would the superhumans see us as we would see a severely mentally retarded person? Someone to take care of, and nurture, but someone we know can never function as a normal member of society?

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Adaptation is different from evolution though. I can adapt to a new climate within days, but I can't evolve genetic traits such as darker skin or lighter eyes without years or hundreds of them, that is where cybernetics and augmentation would shorten the process by changing the way humans are fundamentally. Take gene modding as an example of augmentation. We can inject useful traits to product the next, the very next generation as we so desire. Natural selection and eugenics would take hundreds of years to match the same.

Since both are successful, the use of either method would be based on necessity and opinion.

 

[Developereo]

This is a bit more existentialist philosophy that classic philosophy. But I've been thinking about this as I've been studying the social affairs of what's happening in our world right now. So I'm not usually a man that likes to talk about this , but , you know what, i guess that's the beauty of PDF is that we can reach out to people here who might have answers to things we don't usually bring up in daily life. Aside from one's own religious life, lol.

So this goes to @SvenSvensonov , @Developereo , @Syrian Lion , @levina , @al-Hasani , @Steve781 , @flamer84 , @Horus , @Manticore , @Oscar , @Jungibaaz and everyone else --- Early philosophers and even early mystics claimed that there is a soul, sure our respective religions even teach of it, do you think that the human soul can be reached? Where do you think it is located?

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the evening, so i look forward to your answers, responses maybe tomorrow.


Good night Gents! and Ladies!



Best,

Surely we can discuss the topic of soul without getting into religious angles. If we start with the premise that

soul = mind = consciousness

and that this consciousness is a separate entity from the physical cells comprising the body, then the subject can be discussed even by atheists or non-religious people.

My view is that the neuronal connections can act as an antenna -- like a radio -- to tap into a field of consciousness and our particular physical neuronal makeup determines our particular soul. However, we can tap into the wider field at times, which would explain telepathy, universal consciousness, etc.

Very vague, I know, but that's the connection I make between the physical neurons and the mind.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

This begs the question: is your feeling of kinship to bonobo like that of a zookeeper, a pet owner, or a concerned humanitarian?

Concerned humanitarian

Would the superhumans see us as we would see a severely mentally retarded person? Someone to take care of, and nurture, but someone we know can never function as a normal member of society?

Probably protectionists, there society would be separate from the non-superhumans.

 

[Developereo]

Probably protectionists, there society would be separate from the non-superhumans.

Right. So the natural humans would be an endangered species, protected from natural selection by the apex race.

Can humans survive in such a scenario?
What's the point of striving if you know you can never be master of the universe? That you will never be anything more than a pet, albeit a "special" pet, to the master race?

I doubt the natural natural human race would last past a few generations.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

@Nihonjin1051 - I don't really want to debate this, but I'd like your viewpoint and will offer a small insight into mine. Though I never perused neuroscience of any-kind as a procession, I did in school (my Masters). One field of study of neuroscience is the soul as it relates to our brains in cognitive neuroscience. But what if a person loses their concept of soul? Brain legions, damage or degradation can make a person lose their sense of soul. Also, on the converse, electrical stimulation can enhance the concept's feeling or belief in a person making them feel their soul as more significant.

How would either of these conditions, the loss or stimulation of a belief in a soul, change the concept of one. I would assume the answer to be "not really" as believing in one might not impact whether or not you have one (this assumes our soul exists outside of our minds and not merely as a construct of them), but I've been reminded by a paranoid schizophrenic individual I've had contact with - this persons doesn't have this issue, schizophrenia as a whole just brought this question to mind.

While I'm not religious and generally don't think too much about a soul other than to joke about not having one, I too am interested in a neural origin of such a phenomenon or the existence of such.

*I don't ascribe to a religious "soul", but do examine whether one is a construct our of consciousness, the implications and impact on our behaviors, and how the concept (perhaps not the existence) guides the thoughts who hold the concept of a soul true.

Just thought I'd offer a non-theological take, but without offering too much into my own thoughts on the matter. I would greatly welcome yours though.

Finally, and this a bit of a tangent on your original topic, but what are your views of Soul Dualism? If we accept that we have a soul, can we have two or more?

The concept of Yin and Yang was my inspiration for this question:

Yin and yang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Right. So the natural humans would be an endangered species, protected from natural selection by the apex race.

Can humans survive in such a scenario?
What's the point of striving if you know you can never be master of the universe? That you will never be anything more than a pet, albeit a "special" pet, to the master race?

I doubt the natural natural human race would last past a few generations.

They aren't endangered but they are the root of the super race and and lead to other future super races.

They could be worshiped as godlike beings.

 

[jhungary]

The prisoner expected it not to happen, and the executioner expected him to not think it would happen by telling him it would be a surprise. So when the executioner knocked on the door the prisoner was surprised.

Humans are biological machines, robots are artificial machines. Anyway we try and make an AI it will be based on our understanding of how we work, but how do we know when we will understand ourselves enough to make a true AI and not something we think is an AI.

Other robots that can build other robots because they are programmed to, not because they choose to.

However, the judge, if we say he can see through the prisoner intension of the logic and put a condition outside the scope will not be valid as the proposed argument saying, "you will be hang tomorrow, no matter what" that's in direct contradiction to the basic premises of the sentence implies, which is "You will be hanged tomorrow, but it will be a surprise" At present

heh, what do you say about that?

 

[Developereo]

They aren't endangered but they are the root of the super race and and lead to other future super races.

They could be worshiped as godlike beings.

If we genetically engineer superhumans, I doubt they would worship us -- the natural ones -- as godlike creators. It is much more likely they would have disdain for our limitations and engineer the next batch of superhumans themselves.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

If we genetically engineer superhumans, I doubt they would worship us -- the natural ones -- as godlike creators. It is much more likely they would have disdain for our limitations and engineer the next batch of superhumans themselves.

You got it backwards

 

[Syrian Lion]

This is a bit more existentialist philosophy that classic philosophy. But I've been thinking about this as I've been studying the social affairs of what's happening in our world right now. So I'm not usually a man that likes to talk about this , but , you know what, i guess that's the beauty of PDF is that we can reach out to people here who might have answers to things we don't usually bring up in daily life. Aside from one's own religious life, lol.

So this goes to @SvenSvensonov , @Developereo , @Syrian Lion , @levina , @al-Hasani , @Steve781 , @flamer84 , @Horus , @Manticore , @Oscar , @Jungibaaz and everyone else --- Early philosophers and even early mystics claimed that there is a soul, sure our respective religions even teach of it, do you think that the human soul can be reached? Where do you think it is located?

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the evening, so i look forward to your answers, responses maybe tomorrow.


Good night Gents! and Ladies!



Best,

oh man, a response that doesn't include religious answer/opinion, this is tough hahaha, I'm going with a really short response...

someone said this and I'm not sure who it was... " You don't have a soul, you're a soul, you have a body"...
soul is our conscience, thoughts, beliefs and ideas... that's what I can say for now..

I apologize my response is not that good.

 

[Levina]

This is a bit more existentialist philosophy that classic philosophy. But I've been thinking about this as I've been studying the social affairs of what's happening in our world right now. So I'm not usually a man that likes to talk about this , but , you know what, i guess that's the beauty of PDF is that we can reach out to people here who might have answers to things we don't usually bring up in daily life. Aside from one's own religious life, lol.

So this goes to @SvenSvensonov , @Developereo , @Syrian Lion , @levina , @al-Hasani , @Steve781 , @flamer84 , @Horus , @Manticore , @Oscar , @Jungibaaz and everyone else --- Early philosophers and even early mystics claimed that there is a soul, sure our respective religions even teach of it, do you think that the human soul can be reached? Where do you think it is located?

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the evening, so i look forward to your answers, responses maybe tomorrow.


Good night Gents! and Ladies!



Best,

When it comes to soul, I dont know if I should describe it as a materialistic entity like science does or as a spiritual entity like the religions describe it. Infact the current scientific paradigm doesn’t recognize this spiritual dimension of life.
We are taught that this world is nothing but a string of equations, universe itself has no meaning.
Science teaches you "energy is neither destroyed nor created, it changes from one form to another". Now if thats applied on souls then the rebirth theory should hold true but thats not the case, rebirths dont happen.
So whats a soul?
I dont know....

But I liked what @Syrian Lion had to say about it " You don't have a soul, you're a soul, you have a body...
soul is our conscience, thoughts, beliefs and ideas". Nothing describes it better.

 

[kbd-raaf]

We are taught that this world is nothing but a string of equations, universe itself has no meaning.
Science teaches you "energy is neither destroyed nor created, it changes from one form to another". Now if thats applied on souls then the rebirth theory should hold true but thats not the case, rebirths dont happen.
So whats a soul?

I believe that reason we haven't yet been able to combine quantum physics + general relativity into an unified model is because we are fundamentally looking to create laws where there are perhaps, none.

This may sound ludicrous but I believe that the universe has no single model or equation which can explain it. That all the laws of physics we have derived are localised phenomena at best.

 

[Gauss]

@Jungibaaz The approach you adopted to solve zebra puzzle (as it is known) is called Brute-Force in problem solving. Brute-Force method usually requires a lot more work than other approaches and is thus considered inefficient for solving large and complex problems. Here is a simple way to solve the puzzle.

First of all fill the table values with the info given. This is what we get.

Nationality --------------- Job----------------- House Color -------------- Pet --------------- Drink

Englishman ------------------------------------------ Red ------------------------------------------------

Spaniard -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dog --------------------

Japanese ---------------- Painter -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Italian ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Another table for plotting info with respect to house position can come handy.

1 ---------------------- 2 -------------------- 3 ------------------ 4 -------------------- 5

Norwegian ------- Blue ---------------- Milk ----------------------------------------


Now consider ‘green house is on the right of the white one’. What could be the positions of white and green houses? White house cant be house#1 because that will mean green house is #2 but we know house #2 is blue. So that means white and green houses occupy either positions 3 and 4 or 4 and 5. This means Norwegian’s house cannot be white,green or blue. It cant be red either cause that’s the color of Englishmans house. So we are only left with yellow. That’s the color of Norwegian’s house. We make this entry in our table. We now have,

Nationality ---------------- Job------------ House Color ----------------- Pet --------------- Drink

Englishman ------------------------------------- Red ---------------------------------------------------

Spaniard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dog --------------------

Japanese ----------------- Painter ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Italian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian ------------------------------------- Yellow ------------------------------------------------


Now diplomat lives in the yellow house. This means Norwegian is a diplomat. We make the entry in our table.


Nationality ----------------- Job ------------- House Color --------------- Pet --------------- Drink

Englishman ----------------------------------------- Red-------------------------------------------------

Spaniard --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dog --------------------

Japanese ------------------ Painter ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Italian --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian --------------- Diplomat -------------- Yellow ----------------------------------------------


Horse lives next to diplomat so horse lives in house #2.


1 --------------------- 2 ----------------- 3 --------------- 4 ----------------- 5

Norwegian ------ Blue ------------- Milk ----------------------------------

--------------------- Horse -----------------------------------------------------


Now consider the drink of Norwegian. It cant be tea, Italian drinks it. It cant be coffee cause its drunk in green house which lies at position 4 or 5. It isn’t milk cause milk is drunk in middle house. And it cant be orange juice cause violinist drinks it. So we are only left with water. We make the entry.

Nationality ----------------- Job ----------- House Color ----------------- Pet -------------- Drink

Englishman --------------------------------------- Red -------------------------------------------------

Spaniard -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dog -------------------

Japanese ------------------ Painter ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Italian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian --------------- Diplomat ------------ Yellow ------------------------------------------ Water


Now consider the color of houses. First one is yellow, second is blue. Houses 3,4 and 5 have colors white, green and red in some order we don’t know yet. Because green lies to the right of white, the white and green houses occupy either positions 3 and 4 respectively or positions 4 and 5 respectively. That means red house is either #3 or else #5. Which says Englishman lives in house #3 or else house #5. So we are down to two possible locations for the Englishman. We check both possibilities. When we assign the Englishman house #5 and fill out the table using the conclusions it leads to we find out that it leads to contradictions. That means the Englishman must live in house #3. So we now know house #3 is red. And the Englishman drinks milk. That also means that houses 4 and 5 are white and green respectively. We fill out the tables.


1 --------------------- 2 ----------------- 3 -------------------- 4 ------------------ 5

Norwegian ------- Blue ------------ Milk --------------- White ------------ Green

Yellow ------------ Horse ------- Englishman ------------------------------- Coffee

Diplomat ----------------------------- Red ------------------------------------------

Water -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nationality ----------------- Job ------------- House Color --------------- Pet ---------------- Drink

Englishman ----------------------------------------- Red --------------------------------------------- Milk

Spaniard -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dog --------------------

Japanese ------------------ Painter ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Italian --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian --------------- Diplomat -------------- Yellow ----------------------------------------- Water


Now consider the drink of Japanese. It is either coffee or orange juice. It cant be orange juice cause violinist drinks it and Japanese is a painter. That means Japanese drinks coffee and live is house #5. Spaniard is left with orange juice, which means he is a violinist. We fill the tables.

Nationality ------------------ Job ------------ House Color --------------- Pet --------------- Drink

Englishman ------------------------------------------ Red -------------------------------------------- Milk

Spaniard -------------------- Violinist ------------------------------------------- Dog ------------ Orange juice

Japanese ------------------- Painter -------------- Green ----------------------------------------- Coffee

Italian --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian ---------------- Diplomat ------------- Yellow ------------------------------------------ Water


1 ----------------------- 2 --------------- 3 ------------------- 4 ------------------ 5

Norwegian --------- Blue ----------- Milk -------------- White ------------ Green

Yellow -------------- Horse ------- Englishman ---------------------------- Coffee

Diplomat ------------------------------ Red------------------------------------Japanese

Water ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Painter


Now we consider the house color of Spaniard which is either blue or white. It cant be blue because in the blue house horse lives and Spaniard has a dog. So that means Spaniard lives in white house. We fill the tables.


Nationality ------------------ Job ------------ House Color --------------- Pet ----------------- Drink

Englishman ----------------------------------------- Red ------------------------------------------------ Milk

Spaniard ------------------- Violinist ------------- White ---------------------- Dog -------------- Orange juice

Japanese ------------------- Painter ------------- Green -------------------------------------------- Coffee

Italian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tea

Norwegian ---------------- Diplomat ------------- Yellow ------------------------------------------- Water


1 --------------------- 2 ------------------ 3 -------------------- 4 ------------------- 5

Norwegian ------ Blue -------------- Milk --------------- White ------------ Green

Yellow ----------- Horse --------- Englishman --------- Spaniard --------- Coffee

Diplomat ------------------------------ Red --------------- Violinist --------- Japanese

Water --------------------------------------------------------- Dog -------------- Painter

-------------------------------------------------------------- Orange Juice


Four houses have been assigned drinks in the above table that leaves house #2 with Tea. So Italian lives in house #2 which is blue and has a horse. We make the entries.


Nationality ----------------- Job ------------ House Color ---------------- Pet ---------------- Drink

Englishman --------------------------------------- Red ------------------------------------------------ Milk

Spaniard ------------------ Violinist ------------ White ----------------------- Dog ------------- Orange juice

Japanese ------------------ Painter ------------- Green --------------------------------------------- Coffee

Italian ----------------------------------------------- Blue ----------------------- Horse --------------- Tea

Norwegian --------------- Diplomat ----------- Yellow -------------------------------------------- Water


1 --------------------- 2 ------------------ 3 -------------------- 4 ------------------ 5

Norwegian ------- Blue ------------- Milk --------------- White ------------ Green

Yellow ------------ Horse -------- Englishman -------- Spaniard ---------- Coffee

Diplomat ---------- Tea -------------- Red -------------- Violinist--------- Japanese

Water ------------- Italian ---------------------------------- Dog ------------- Painter

------------------------------------------------------------- Orange Juice


Now Italian is either a photographer or a physician. He cant be a photographer because photographer breeds snails and the Italian has a horse. So Englishman is the photographer and Italian is the physician. We make the entries.


Nationality -------------------- Job ---------------House Color ------------ Pet --------------- Drink

Englishman -------------- Photographer ------------ Red ------------------ Snails --------------- Milk

Spaniard --------------------- Violinist ---------------- White ----------------- Dog ------------ Orange juice

Japanese -------------------- Painter ---------------- Green ------------------------------------- Coffee

Italian ----------------------- Physician ---------------- Blue ----------------- Horse -------------- Tea

Norwegian ----------------- Diplomat --------------- Yellow ------------------------------------- Water


1 ------------------------ 2 ----------------- 3 -------------------- 4 ------------------ 5

Norwegian --------- Blue ------------- Milk --------------- White ----------- Green

Yellow -------------- Horse -------- Englishman --------- Spaniard -------- Coffee

Diplomat ------------ Tea -------------- Red --------------- Violinist -------- Japanese

Water --------------- Italian ------- Photographer --------- Dog ------------ Painter

----------------------Physician --------- Snails ----------- Orange Juice ------------


Now we have ‘fox is in a house next to that of the physician’. Physician is Italian in house #2. That means either one of house #1 and house #3 has a fox. But house #3 has snails. So fox is in house #1, which is Norwegian’s. This completes our table.


Nationality ------------------ Job ------------- House Color -------------- Pet -------------- Drink

Englishman ----------- Photographer ---------- Red --------------------- Snails ------------ Milk

Spaniard ------------------ Violinist ------------- White -------------------- Dog ---------- Orange juice

Japanese ------------------ Painter -------------- Green ------------------- Zebra ----------- Coffee

Italian -------------------- Physician --------------- Blue ------------------- Horse ------------- Tea

Norwegian -------------- Diplomat ------------- Yellow ------------------- Fox ------------- Water

@levina