Philosophical debates and logic puzzles

[jhungary]

What if you make a self-evolving program ? One that could look beyond this binary of true and false ?

What would become of us then ? @SvenSvensonov what if Nietzsche's Ubermensch is not really a man but an AI that perfects our shortcomings and is the next evolutionary leap in life ?

you can evolve the program all u want but you cannot rid of the core basis of computer processing, and thats 2 dimension.

In a logic control, you get a function called if-then-else but if you look at the logic , its instead of a 3 way thinking, its a 2 set of 2 way logic.

the control if a then b or c in logical term is if a then b, if not a then c...

Is the barber a male or is he a 'male' barber; as in a barber for men ?

the barber is a man not a barber for man

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Introspective!
We live in a world which is changing very fast, the issue is we have very vague definitions of human beings and robots.
But to a human being robots will always be artificial for it was created by a human. So AI will remain AI isnt it?

When the robot looks at us does he see himself? Are we an AI with self-correcting code and a prime directive to reproduce in order to further our species? It does matter from where you look into this debate, but what of the other side?

If a robot gains human intelligence I'll accept it as human. Are we so arrogant as a species that we alone are left with intelligence and all others can't possess such?

 

[jhungary]

lol nobody interested in the paradox....

<---on the corner drawing circle ....

 

[SvenSvensonov]

you can evolve the program all u want but you cannot rid of the core basis of computer processing, and thats 2 dimension.

In a logic control, you get a function called if-then-else but if you look at the logic , its instead of a e way thinking, its a 2 set of 2 way logic.

the control if a then b or c in logical term is if a then b, if not a then c...


the barber is a man not a barber for man

Humans give an impression of in depth thought, but at the end of the day we are left with two choices, act or don't... If or else. Our core programming seems complex in the way we process information, but the outcomes are as predicatable as yes or no. Do or don't. Can computer give the illusion of in depth thought? Can they gain such?

 

[Levina]

let me give you guys another hair scratcher

Barber Paradox

In a town, there are only 1 male barber, and all the male in this town are well groomed and never leave this town.
For the town male, there are two choices, either they shave themselves or ask the barber to shave them. But the local barber have 1 rule only, he only shave those who are unwilling to shave himself.

The paradox is, Who shave the barber?

Recently on one of the Indian news channels there was a report of how a barber prefers cutting his own hairs.
By that logic, this barber will cut his own hairs. Thats possible!

When the robot looks at us does he see himself? Are we an AI with self-correcting code and a prime directive to reproduce in order to further our species? It does matter from where you look into this debate, but what of the other side?

If a robot gains human intelligence I'll accept it as human. Are we so arrogant as a species that we alone are left with intelligence and all others can't possess such?

Hmmm
No, its not about being arrogant. I was talking in scientific terms, robots were created artificially ergo AI would remain AI forever to a human being. Being a human is not just about having human-like- intelligence. Isnt it?
Robots must have the same physical characteristics as us to be called humans is what I feel.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

lol nobody interested in the paradox....

<---on the corner drawing circle ....

It takes time to work out solutions, be patient.

Recently on one of the Indian news channels there was a report of how a barber prefers cutting his own hairs.
By that logic, this barber will cut his own hairs. Thats possible!

Hmmm
No, its not about being arrogant. I was talking in scientific terms, robots were created artificially ergo AI would remain AI forever to a human being. Being a human is not just about having human-like- intelligence. Isnt it?
Robots must have the same physical characteristics as us to be called humans is what I feel.

Arghhhh! No science in philosophy, not that your position is wrong, it's just not right either. There is no such answer, that you're thinking is what I asked for, and you've passed magnificently!!!

Hmmm, the same physical characteristics? What of a human who's mind has been transplanted into a robotic body, an android, is he human still?

 

[Levina]

lol nobody interested in the paradox....

<---on the corner drawing circle ....

I thot I just answered that paradox.
Frankly my brain's saturated now lol

 

[jhungary]

Humans give an impression of in depth thought, but at the end of the day we are left with two choices, act or don't... If or else. Out core programming seems complex in the way we process information, but the outcomes are as predicatable as yes or no. Do or don't.

in machine term, thats is the world or machine, a true statement is always going to be true and a false statement is always going to be false..

But in human term result and consequence is a bit different, how would you imagine for a machine to process a baseball play "sacrifices" for machine it dont make sense , in ordrr for a game to win, they need to intentionally lose that out. This is a true = false moment for the machine

 

[Jungibaaz]

Cool!
But how did you figure out the sequence of the houses and the color??

Okay, let me see.

The Norwegian lives in the first house on the left. Assign Norwegian to house 1, get rid of Norwegian from all other houses. The House next to him is Blue, therefore the Englishman who's house is red cannot possibly live there, nor does the Norwegian himself. So The Englishman is somewhere in houses 3-5 and the Norwegian is in the first. The animal in the blue house is a horse, therefore the Spaniard cannot live there, so the Spaniard lives in Houses 3-5 also. At this point you do not know who lives in House 2, but you know that it cannot be the Norwegian, Spaniard or the Englishman. The Italian and the Japenese is a possibility. You know that the Englishman is in the red house, and that the White is to the left of the Green, therefore the arrangement of the last 3 houses is either Red, White, Green... White, Red, Green... or... White, Green, Red. The rule is that the White must be to the left of the Green. Before I got to this point, I did a LOT of elimination and deduction simply cycling through the rules, removing something new each time. So of the 3 configurations above, I took the each of them and tried to put them in my table by elimination again, and the arrangement White, Red, Green resolved for Houses 1,2 and 5, but it left the Spaniard and the Japanese unresolved in houses 4 and 5. So then I tried the one in my table I uploaded; Red, White, Green, and this worked, it resolved the all components.

But please note, I have missed out about 80% of my steps. There is a lot of elimination and thinking in between, but the house, colours, and nationality were arranged in the way I said. Getting house 1 and 2 arranged was easy, getting 3 and 5 arranged correctly required trial and error.

You must've had a perfect score in your SATs !

I tried solving it but then gave up because I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to find a piece of paper and pencil !

That does not mean that I'm stupid !

Maybe I just have an over occupied brain !

No, I'm not that smart. I spent over an hour on it, well over. And I tried and failed first time, tried again, and then again, and then tried to solve it in two separate methods near the end, and finally got it. Draw a table like the one I uploaded, otherwise it's too difficult to keep track and spot where to eliminate elements.

 

[Armstrong]

I like your thinking @Armstrong perhaps we are just a self-correcting code. I would offer that humans are nothing more than that. We are a collection of data grouped into a single unit, but always making corrections to our code. Learning from our mistakes, new experiences and tribulations. Are we sure we are not machines?

Perhaps we are; but its time like these when I think that I will not believe that when I love a woman it is not real but merely a chemical imbalance in my brain; keep me away from such logic which is devoid of emotions for emotions have a logic of their own.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Perhaps we are; but its time like these when I think that I will not believe that when I love a woman it is not real but merely a chemical imbalance in my brain; keep me away from such logic which is devoid of emotions for emotions have a logic of their own.

Emotion is the polar opposite of logic... But hey, when your in love who cares right?

 

[jhungary]

Recently on one of the Indian news channels there was a report of how a barber prefers cutting his own hairs.
By that logic, this barber will cut his own hairs. Thats possible!

Hmmm
No, its not about being arrogant. I was talking in scientific terms, robots were created artificially ergo AI would remain A human being. Being a human is not just about having human-like- intelligence. Isnt it?
Robots must have the same physical characteristics as us to be called humans is what I feel.

no...one of the condition of the barber is he will only cut people who are not willing to cut themselves.

Suppose all the town male including the barber is well groomed, the barbar would only have 1 of 2 choice, either he cut himself, or he let the barber (himself) cut him. But remember he only cut people who are not willing to cut himself. So if either choice involve shaving himself, that is the only thing he could not do as he only shave people who dont shave themselves

 

[Armstrong]

you can evolve the program all u want but you cannot rid of the core basis of computer processing, and thats 2 dimension.

In a logic control, you get a function called if-then-else but if you look at the logic , its instead of a 3 way thinking, its a 2 set of 2 way logic.

the control if a then b or c in logical term is if a then b, if not a then c...

the barber is a man not a barber for man

@SvenSvensonov you're a military man; pray tell me why is my brother Jhungary always so serious in his replies ?

Are you American Servicemen sent on a 10 mile run merely for smiling let alone cracking a joke ?

@jhungary - My Brother; chill out and be merry !

On Topic: You're assuming that I'm talking about this happening right now with what we've available before us ? What if a hundred or two hundred years from now we add a third dimension that of 'feelings' to a program ? What would become of us then ? Would we be superseded ? Would logic demand that we ought to bow out while a newer, superior species take the place of their progenitors ?

Emotion is the polar opposite of logic... But hey, when your in love who cares right?

Perhaps then you can answer a question for me: What is reason/logic ?

 

[Jungibaaz]

I often find my "head in the clouds", but now wonder whether those clouds are even real! What do the people of PDF think about the concept of our universe not being real, a hologram or an artificial construct of our own consciousness? Is everything we interact with nothing more than the same we see on a computer, or an illusion of our own thoughts? Do we even exist as we think we do? Perhaps we are someones else's reality they are imagining with a conscious created in someone else's head and only think we can think? Thoughts?

These are some great questions. but the one in bold, we certainly don't exist in the way we think we do. There's lots of evidence for that, the first thing to understand is just how minuscule our existence when measured with a good understanding of the scale of the observable universe. We hardly see beyond our own environment, we hardly notice each other, let alone all that exists around us, let alone all that ever exists now or ever has. We're very limited. Our lifetimes are a blink in the eye of the lifetime of our host planet, who's life is in turn minuscule compared to that of the universe. We see only a small band of frequencies, which we like to call the visible spectrum. Most of the universe is made of dark matter, a concept not known to us until recently. We've not even come to terms with our existence as individuals or as a species on this planet, let alone our place in the vastness of all that exists. We only escaped our planet about half a century ago.

I had one really cool animation I posted on this forum. Let me see if I can find it.

 

[jhungary]

@SvenSvensonov you're a military man; pray tell me why is my brother Jhungary always so serious in his replies ?

Are you American Servicemen sent on a 10 mile run merely for smiling let alone cracking a joke ?

@jhungary - My Brother; chill out and be merry !

On Topic: You're assuming that I'm talking about this happening right now with what we've available before us ? What if a hundred or two hundred years from now we add a third dimension that of 'feelings' to a program ? What would become of us then ? Would we be superseded ? Would logic demand that we ought to bow out while a newer, superior species take the place of their progenitors ?

lol i am not being serious, but thats the truth, simply because if you give more than true and false as the only choice, there will be infinite possibility to process, i dont know how the brain work but in case of a computer, that mean an infinite amount of space and hence by this logic, no one can build a computer that can process other than true or false