Philosophical debates and logic puzzles

[Levina]

i said, the milk jug puzzle was featured in Die Hard 3 as one of the puzzle he need to solve before the bomb exploded...

Oh!
I havent watched it.

 

[jhungary]

lol i saw that when it just came out in 1992 i think...that was ages ago

Oh!
I havent watched it.

Anyway if you like i am not a big fan for logical puzzle but i am a big fan of logical paradox, if you guys want to discuss any?

 

[Levina]

Anyway if you like i am not a big fan for logical puzzle but i am a big fan of logical paradox, if you guys want to discuss any?

Gary I know you as someone who can make even the least interesting things, interesting.
So go ahead

 

[jhungary]

Gary I know you as someone who can make even the least interesting things, interesting.
So go ahead

lol I study logic as part of my university education but ended up having been move away from my subject of choice - computer engineering so u discontinued the field..

Unexpected hanging paradox

Unexpected Hanging Paradox


A judge tells a condemned prisoner that he will be hanged at noon on one weekday in the following week but that the execution will be a surprise to the prisoner. He will not know the day of the hanging until the executioner knocks on his cell door at noon that day.

Having reflected on his sentence, the prisoner draws the conclusion that he will escape from the hanging. His reasoning is in several parts. He begins by concluding that the "surprise hanging" can't be on a Friday, as if he hasn't been hanged by Thursday, there is only one day left - and so it won't be a surprise if he's hanged on a Friday. Since the judge's sentence stipulated that the hanging would be a surprise to him, he concludes it cannot occur on Friday.

He then reasons that the surprise hanging cannot be on Thursday either, because Friday has already been eliminated and if he hasn't been hanged by Wednesday night, the hanging must occur on Thursday, making a Thursday hanging not a surprise either. By similar reasoning he concludes that the hanging can also not occur on Wednesday, Tuesday or Monday. Joyfully he retires to his cell confident that the hanging will not occur at all.

The next week, the executioner knocks on the prisoner's door at noon on Wednesday — which, despite all the above, will still be an utter surprise to him. Everything the judge said has come true.

 

[Star Wars]

Hey everyone, as has been talked about by @Nihonjin1051 and @Jungibaaz (albeit from a hypothetical standpoint), I'm starting this thread to promote philosophical debates and logical thinking. I feel this is something that can improve the quality of contributions here on PDF... which is at times devoid of rational thought. I invite anyone to participate, but please keep the conversations relevant. Also, I'll start things off with a few logic puzzles. Feel free to offer your own discussions, puzzles and solutions!!!

The goal here isn't to unravel any great mysteries, it's to think more in depth and get a bit more brain excersise then usual. And remember - there is no right or wrong answer, no smart or stupid question, trying is all I ask!

Enjoy!!!

SvenSvensonov

MILK JUGS:

A milkman has two empty jugs: a three gallon jug and a five gallon jug. How can he measure exactly one gallon without wasting any milk?

TRUE STATEMENTS:

A. The number of false statements here is one.

B. The number of false statements here is two.

C. The number of false statements here is three.

D. The number of false statements here is four.

Which of the above statements is true?

LOGIC POEM:

The following verse spells out a word, letter by letter. "My first" refers to the word's first letter, and so on. What's the word that this verse describes?

My first is in fish but not in snail
My second in rabbit but not in tail
My third in up but not down
My fourth in tiara not in crown
My fifth in tree you plainly see
My whole a food for you and me

THREE BOXES:

There are three boxes, one contains only apples, one contains only oranges, and one contains both apples and oranges. The boxes have been incorrectly labeled such that no label identifies the actual contents of the box it labels. Opening just one box, and without looking in the box, you take out one piece of fruit. By looking at the fruit, how can you immediately label all of the boxes correctly.

Which box did you open and how can you be sure to label all boxes correctly

BURNING ROPES:

A rope burns non-uniformly for exactly one hour. How do you measure 45 minutes, given two such ropes?

FOUR DIGIT NUMBER:

What is the four-digit number in which the first digit is one-third the second, the third is the sum of the first and second, and the last is three times the second?

@Nihonjin1051 I'm game for a philosophical debate, assuming it doesn't relate to anything political.

Actually, I've got an early topic that relates to my job. Over the Christmas period, when I tried to quit PDF, I got both a raise, increased stress and increased responsibilities, my increased responsibilities relate to the military usage of cybernetics - mechanical human parts (sorry, can't go too much further than that). My question to you is this, 1.) do you consider this ethical? 2.) At what point do we cease to be human? 3.) Will this become a new form of eugenics that sees people alter themselves to match certain human phenotypes and conditions, ultimately leading to a more perfect being - at least in their own eyes? I can't help but be reminded of early eugenics tries with selective breeding and to me this isn't too much more different.

Also, what does the ability to prolong our lives contribute to the trajectory of human populations? Do we begin to thin out our poor, those who can't afford such modification and opt for a more healthy, but smaller and longer living population? What about the impact of prolonged human live's on our worlds resources?

@Nihonjin1051 - thoughts or topics (if this one doesn't interest you, or anyone else, or you have limited expertise and can't contribute with enough quality... I have plenty of subjects like that and like plenty of other subjects that I would be willing to debate)?

@Armstrong @levina @Chinese-Dragon - and anyone else interested in such debates!

SPOILERS BELOW

TRUE STATEMENTS:

The last statement (D) would be true, simply because there are 4 statements. If only 3 statements existsed until 3 then (c) would be true. So in this case D is true

MILK JUGS:

3 Gallon Jug is A
5 Gallon Jug is B

pour milk into A , then pour all the milk from A into B living 3 gallons of milk in B and none in A. Then pour 3 Gallons of milk inside A.. Pour the milk From A to B until B is Full. What remains is 1 Gallon of Milk.

THREE BOXES:

Go to the Box which says both apples and oranges and pick 1 fruit from there. Now the since this is labeled wrong. We know this has only 1 fruit. So the fruit you picked is the fruit it has. the other two baskets will be called apples or Oranges. All we need to do is interchange the labels and you have it.

FOUR DIGIT NUMBER:

1349 ?

 

[Levina]

The next week, the executioner knocks on the prisoner's door at noon on Wednesday — which, despite all the above, will still be an utter surprise to him. Everything the judge said has come true.

well this surprises the reader but not the prisoner.
None of the days would have been a surprise at all, because the prisoner would have waited for the executioner on each day. Thats what my logic says!!

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Nothing in my mind is the absence of everything ie space, time & matter.

Can singularity be regarded as nothing? Probably not, a universe with zero radius is not the same as no universe.

So to answer your question, something always existed.

I'll offer you the same question I offered previously. Assuming there is one universe, no supreme being and possibly multiple dimensions, what exists beyond the confines of our time and space? If we escape our universe, save for us existing in this void, would be find "nothing"?

well this surprises the reader but not the prisoner.
None of the days would have been a surprise at all, because the prisoner would have waited for the executioner on each day. Thats what my logic says!!

You've done very well on the lateral/logic puzzles... But know this. Most of these were elementary school stuff. I've got a lot more difficult puzzles to offer

In the mean time, I have a philosophical question for you and others. As our computer algorithms become more capable of learning, assuming one can gain sentience, do we call it human? Does the AI not think or learn? Can it not learn to " feel" as humans do as they progress from infancy into adulthood? What separates humans from an AI?

 

[Star Wars]

1. You are driving down the road in your car on a wild, stormy night, when you pass by a bus stop and you see three people waiting for the bus:

1. An old lady who looks as if she is about to die.
2. An old friend who once saved your life.
3. The perfect partner you have been dreaming about.

Knowing that there can only be one passenger in your car, whom would you choose?

Gibberish- assumed question wrong.

2. Acting on an anonymous phone call, the police raid a house to arrest a suspected murderer. They don't know what he looks like but they know his name is John and that he is inside the house. The police bust in on a carpenter, a lorry driver, a mechanic and a fireman all playing poker. Without hesitation or communication of any kind, they immediately arrest the fireman. How do they know they've got their man?

Firemen had the pokerface ??

 

[Levina]

Here is a famous puzzle. Whoever solves it has the potential to become a computing billionaire like Bill Gates.

Five men with different nationalities and with different jobs live in consecutive houses on a street. The houses are painted different colors. The men have different pets and have different favorite drinks. Determine who owns a zebra and whose favorite drink is mineral water (which is one of the favorite drinks) given these clues: The Englishman lives in the red house. The Spaniard owns a dog. The Japanese man is a painter. The Italian drinks tea. The Norwegian lives in the first house on the left. The green house is on the right of the white one. The photographer breeds snails. The diplomat lives in the yellow house. Milk is drunk in the middle house. The owner of the green house drinks coffee. The Norwegian’s house is next to the blue one. The violinist drinks orange juice. The fox is in a house next to that of the physician. The horse is in a house next to that of the diplomat.

Paperwork is a must to solve this puzzle.

@SvenSvensonov @levina @Jungibaaz

Oh gaawwwd!
This is so very confusing.....I sat with a paper and pen and tried solving it for an hour or so then I fell asleep (my brain switches on sleep mode when it is over worked). I woke up sometime back and felt very lazzyyy to solve this puzzle so I'll wait for the champs here to solve this puzzle.
@Nihonjin1051 @Jungibaaz @Gufi @S.U.R.B. @acetophenol @kurup @OrionHunter @Dash @thesolar65 @Star Wars
And hey nooo cheating...wookay?

@Slav Defence @nair do visit this thread when free.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

1. The lady is old, she has already lived her life and i would not find any logic in saving her simply because she will not live as long as the other two.

2. I would logically go for the old friend since it is the simple case of HE saved my life and i would have to save his life in return.

3. Though in real life i wouldn't use any ounce of my logic and go for the young woman. Simply because the value of my life and the value of her life increases since she is the "perfect partner" and also not to mention having a child increases the value of the womans life considerably...



Firemen had the pokerface ??

The old lady would be my choice. She needs help, but the friend needs a ride, so I'm give him my keys. He can drive the old lady. Two down. Now, I am left to stand, waiting for the bus with the girl of my dreams

As for the fireman, put an emphasis on the "man" to answer that question.

 

[jhungary]

well this surprises the reader but not the prisoner.
None of the days would have been a surprise at all, because the prisoner would have waited for the executioner on each day. Thats what my logic says!!

If the prisoner was expected to be executed everyday, then none of the day would have been a surprise at all, then the prisoner will not be executed, that is the prisoner have been banking on, but the fact that although expected all this, he is ultimately still getting executed, that was actually the surprise the judge mentioned.

 

[Levina]

In the mean time, I have a philosophical question for you and others. As our computer algorithms become more capable of learning, assuming one can gain sentience, do we call it human? Does the AI not think or learn? Can it not learn to " feel" as humans do as they progress from infancy into adulthood? What separates humans from an AI?

what separates humans from AI???
The five senses, emotions and reproduction. Oops!
Or so I think.
Btw this reminds me of Robin william's movie called Bicentennial Man.

 

[Star Wars]

The old lady would be my choice. She needs help, but the friend needs a ride, so I'm give him my keys. He can drive the old lady. Two down. Now, I am left to stand, waiting for the bus with the girl of my dreams

I am an idiot, i did not read the question and assumed the question was who can be saved and only only 1 option was available...

 

[SvenSvensonov]

what separates humans from AI???
The five senses, emotions and reproduction. Oops!
Or so I think.
Btw this reminds me of Robin william's movie called Bicentennial Man.

There are machines that can touch, smell, hear, see and think... In that respect we are no different. Some can learn to, this is called deep learning, perhaps some would answer this question with the "soul" argument, I'm not religious so tend no to.

Is human thought not code? Logical constructs that bring order to our action, like code in a computer program? Perhaps there are no humans? Only machines.

As for reproduction... What of robots that can build other robots?

 

[Armstrong]

Fascinating thread !

Though I don't like logical puzzles of that sort; I like metaphysics and epistemology more !

Try to figure this one out : What is reason ?