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Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

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Things were alway clear. It will all come down to evidence and what can be proven based on evidence. If decision was to be made on gut feeling i do not see many politicians out of jail!!

What is wrong by the law and what can be proven is what will count.
What might be interesting to see is how would the Court attain documents that initiated the leaks, and will the journalists who researched them would be called upon to testify.

This seems to be one of the directions that might be taken by the Court according to the order passed today. The last two lines of Para 2.
Order passed today. Sharifs didn't back their statements with evidence, done on purpose to delay. Read it in its entirety, make a note of para 3.
View attachment 350115
 
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The DAWN news leak case will be even more problamatic if a deal is not struck between army and PMLN. It is a matter of National Security and those who did that knowingly can be trmermed as traitors!!!
Can we even imagine PA making a deal with PMLn over this issue and if they do so...Will they be trustworthy for national defence and security...
IF they did that..I'm saying that will damage their reputation to an unimaginable level.
 
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Ok, let suppose NS get convicted and as a consequence he has to resign; will that make any dent on the voting bank of PML - N for the next elections?
Well this Case would no doubt put a dent on many politicians future. AS far as PML-N is concerned this judgement could probably cause it to become a minority party.

This might also make other voters come to vote in general which political party might win is too early to call. There might be election reforms so it can not be said how and who might win. In the last general elections ex-pats were not allowed to vote, only 17-18% of the population voted because there were no consensus before the election.

Can we even imagine PA making a deal with PMLn over this issue and if they do so...Will they be trustworthy for national defence and security...
IF they did that..I'm saying that will damage their reputation to an unimaginable level.
Case 2 opens up an other issue which if comes then it would be the end.
 
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Case 2 opens up an other issue which if comes then it would be the end.
That will be a bigger damage than 1971 war ...because now people know, they have media and listen to analyses and reports by experts 24 x 7...
No one will want to send their kids to military service anymore...and we have seen PA's popularity dropping especially under Kiyani in recent times. Raheel Shareef did a magnificent job in restoring the reputation of PA and also the trust of the nation..but people are still awaiting big breakthrough's on corruption front especially against the big fish... He has been pretty vocal about it and invited criticism from the crooked politicians and their muppets in media but raised the expectations and the hopes of the nation...so now will he let down the nation in such a disgraceful way? I don't think so or at least do not want to think about it.
 
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Well this Case would no doubt put a dent on many politicians future. AS far as PML-N is concerned this judgement could probably cause it to become a minority party.

This might also make other voters come to vote in general which political party might win is too early to call. There might be election reforms so it can not be said how and who might win. In the last general elections ex-pats were not allowed to vote, only 17-18% of the population voted because there were no consensus before the election.


Case 2 opens up an other issue which if comes then it would be the end.

IMHO you cannot sway much of the "hardcore" voters of PML - N (no matter what happens), unfortunately this is what the history tells you. Also to note that there is a segment of PTI voters (how small it may be) who are not happy with how things went from October 29 to the thanks giving day. But, yes if expats will be allowed to vote then things will get really interesting...what I am getting at is that...you cannot change the trend of "sobayi siasat" ...
 
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That will be a bigger damage than 1971 war ...because now people know, they have media and listen to analyses and reports by experts 24 x 7...
People of Pakistan were aware through news papers in 1971. Media has always been the 5th power, there is nothing new, however Western media like Fox network, CNN and BBC have always been a propaganda machine. If you see CNN came up with live coverage of a small girl that had fallen in a drain hole. There were many other important topics that were not shown during that time. Doesn't this also amount to a crime similar to what unimportant 911 calls do?

Now come the talk shows and the opinions of experts, then those also have a pattern. If there are three different persons from same media group together they would never come the a similar conclusion. It is a very common thing, here is an example: a class of 20 students from different grades are given exactly a similar question based on a situation then they would never have an identical answer. Why? because each and every individual has a different brain which has evolved considering the environment he/she as grown.

What in reality these experts are stating is confusing general public because they are not well educated. These people then compare it with what the others are saying on the streets and make up their mind, which is being reflected in public opinions when the media stops to question them. (mostly those are spoon fed as well because they want to see a balance). Why these people come on media then? They come for their 3 sec publicity in their family and friends.

People who are demonstrating are the real force, be it in any city of the world.

No one will want to send their kids to military service anymore...and we have seen PA's popularity dropping especially under Kiyani in recent times.
No...THIS IS ENTIRELY RUBBISH.

Popularity of Institutions are not based on individual persons. They are based on the rules and systems that govern that institution.

The question one should have asked is why did General Kiyani did not act on stopping the terrorist activities?
The reason for this is very simple, all over the world Police is the first line of defence for the civilians against terrorist activities not the Army.

When the Government of Pakistan ordered the Army to handle the terrorists that is the time PA came in to help out the police. If this order would have been given to General Kiyani he would have also done what General Raheel is doing.

Raheel Shareef did a magnificent job in restoring the reputation of PA and also the trust of the nation..but people are still awaiting big breakthrough's on corruption front especially against the big fish...
People of Pakistan always had trust in the armed forces, they were only surprised why the army is not reacting out n their own?

Army was not reacting because they wanted the Institutions of Pakistan to find a political solution on how to address Pakistan's security concerns.

He has been pretty vocal about it and invited criticism from the crooked politicians and their muppets in media but raised the expectations and the hopes of the nation...so now will he let down the nation in such a disgraceful way? I don't think so or at least do not want to think about it.
Corruption is not just a problem faced by Pakistan but the entire world. Hence NS used this to gain popularity and made it part of his manshur. NS never expected people of Pakistan would demand to act in accordance to what he promised to do because of one reason alone, NS still believes it was the 90's. This could be due to the fact he was not present in Pakistan and was only taking advise from his advisers.

Looking from far away can bring one to wrong conclusions of ground realities. Though it can also have a positive if one wishes...

To add to this it became even more difficult because General Raheel also commented of eradicating corruption. Well politicians would not have liked this because they did not intend on eradicating corruption in first place.

If there is a deal between PA and NS it would be on how to go about the trial. As we know some of the main personalities are on the run or about to. IMHO if there has to be a trial then it should be a summary trial by the Supreme Court (Full Bench).

Lets hope for the best...

IMHO you cannot sway much of the "hardcore" voters of PML - N (no matter what happens), unfortunately this is what the history tells you. Also to note that there is a segment of PTI voters (how small it may be) who are not happy with how things went from October 29 to the thanks giving day. But, yes if expats will be allowed to vote then things will get really interesting...what I am getting at is that...you cannot change the trend of "sobayi siasat" ...
As you are saying hardcore voters would support PML- N. The issue they might face is who would take command of this party once NS is not the head. Will they accept some other family to utilize the name PML-N rather then splitting it up into PML---xyz.

As far as PTI voters are concerned one can not predict where they would go in future. Every one can not be on the same page on what happened on OCT 29, however if the Court ruling came in NS's favor then things do not look bright for PTI. These voters would shift over to Shaikh Rasheed who would at the end of the day do a pact with PTI on having seat adjustment something that was done in the last election.

Sobayi Siasat would definitely play a role but if electoral reforms take place and limit funding and ban parties to bring their supporters on carriages provided by them to polling stations then a lot of bought votes would be lost. This is something that has been done since ages by all parties.
 
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People of Pakistan were aware through news papers in 1971. Media has always been the 5th power, there is nothing new, however Western media like Fox network, CNN and BBC have always been a propaganda machine. If you see CNN came up with live coverage of a small girl that had fallen in a drain hole. There were many other important topics that were not shown during that time. Doesn't this also amount to a crime similar to what unimportant 911 calls do?

Now come the talk shows and the opinions of experts, then those also have a pattern. If there are three different persons from same media group together they would never come the a similar conclusion. It is a very common thing, here is an example: a class of 20 students from different grades are given exactly a similar question based on a situation then they would never have an identical answer. Why? because each and every individual has a different brain which has evolved considering the environment he/she as grown.

What in reality these experts are stating is confusing general public because they are not well educated. These people then compare it with what the others are saying on the streets and make up their mind, which is being reflected in public opinions when the media stops to question them. (mostly those are spoon fed as well because they want to see a balance). Why these people come on media then? They come for their 3 sec publicity in their family and friends.

People who are demonstrating are the real force, be it in any city of the world.


No...THIS IS ENTIRELY RUBBISH.

Popularity of Institutions are not based on individual persons. They are based on the rules and systems that govern that institution.

The question one should have asked is why did General Kiyani did not act on stopping the terrorist activities?
The reason for this is very simple, all over the world Police is the first line of defence for the civilians against terrorist activities not the Army.

When the Government of Pakistan ordered the Army to handle the terrorists that is the time PA came in to help out the police. If this order would have been given to General Kiyani he would have also done what General Raheel is doing.


People of Pakistan always had trust in the armed forces, they were only surprised why the army is not reacting out n their own?

Army was not reacting because they wanted the Institutions of Pakistan to find a political solution on how to address Pakistan's security concerns.


Corruption is not just a problem faced by Pakistan but the entire world. Hence NS used this to gain popularity and made it part of his manshur. NS never expected people of Pakistan would demand to act in accordance to what he promised to do because of one reason alone, NS still believes it was the 90's. This could be due to the fact he was not present in Pakistan and was only taking advise from his advisers.

Looking from far away can bring one to wrong conclusions of ground realities. Though it can also have a positive if one wishes...

To add to this it became even more difficult because General Raheel also commented of eradicating corruption. Well politicians would not have liked this because they did not intend on eradicating corruption in first place.

If there is a deal between PA and NS it would be on how to go about the trial. As we know some of the main personalities are on the run or about to. IMHO if there has to be a trial then it should be a summary trial by the Supreme Court (Full Bench).

Lets hope for the best...


As you are saying hardcore voters would support PML- N. The issue they might face is who would take command of this party once NS is not the head. Will they accept some other family to utilize the name PML-N rather then splitting it up into PML---xyz.

As far as PTI voters are concerned one can not predict where they would go in future. Every one can not be on the same page on what happened on OCT 29, however if the Court ruling came in NS's favor then things do not look bright for PTI. These voters would shift over to Shaikh Rasheed who would at the end of the day do a pact with PTI on having seat adjustment something that was done in the last election.

Sobayi Siasat would definitely play a role but if electoral reforms take place and limit funding and ban parties to bring their supporters on carriages provided by them to polling stations then a lot of bought votes would be lost. This is something that has been done since ages by all parties.

You have written a long piece of crap which has no relation to my posts which you quoted ... ...None of your lines make any sense....
 
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What might be interesting to see is how would the Court attain documents that initiated the leaks, and will the journalists who researched them would be called upon to testify.

This seems to be one of the directions that might be taken by the Court according to the order passed today. The last two lines of Para 2.
I am still not sure about how SC can "investigate". It is a court, they can study the evidence, hear the witness and bass a judgement. Investigation and bringing in evidence is not what they normally do. If SC asks police or NAB to bring in that evidence then just stop following this whole drama as NOTHING will come of it.

However it seems that SC is taking a new course this time and will be looking into matters more deeply. Lets see!!

Can we even imagine PA making a deal with PMLn over this issue and if they do so...Will they be trustworthy for national defence and security...
IF they did that..I'm saying that will damage their reputation to an unimaginable level.
It will, it will damage their repute but my worry is that army wont be the biggest loser in this. It will be the country, the nation who will actually lose all hope. Till now, no matter what, people do look at military with some pride since all other institutions were hijacked and corrupted by the politicians/governments. So if army does anything like this it will be a very hard blow. All hope may be lost!

However, i am not saying that it is likely, just saying that we should not rule out anything. NROs have happened in the past, that was the same politicians and same military. Thankfull time and situation is dofferent now but still, WHO KNOWS!!
 
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I read that PTI lawyer once again said they have no evidence in SC? How will this help? The Panama Leaks themselves have to be the evidence?Would be illegal in SC?

Panama leaks is the revelation, not evidence. It is leak of mentioned names in the paper according to certain figure. In court, that certain figure has to provide testimony with concrete evidence to present or better yet, find the paper trail to find the connection to the names of the mentioned in the paper. It is record of information based on according to etera etera, hence it is called revelation, not evidence. It is the leak of information according to certain figures that named certain figures behind the account.

Since there is no testimony nor paper trail connection, the case is useless. That's why Nawaz Sharif looks unworried.

But don't see the leak as evidence since it is not, rather see the leak as awareness for the future election approaching ahead. Now Pakistan knows about Panama leak, and Pakistan as nation can decide who to vote for with the information on hand. That is the best news as it can get. :D
 
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It will, it will damage their repute but my worry is that army wont be the biggest loser in this. It will be the country, the nation who will actually lose all hope. Till now, no matter what, people do look at military with some pride since all other institutions were hijacked and corrupted by the politicians/governments. So if army does anything like this it will be a very hard blow. All hope may be lost!

However, i am not saying that it is likely, just saying that we should not rule out anything. NROs have happened in the past, that was the same politicians and same military. Thankfull time and situation is dofferent now but still, WHO KNOWS!!
Exactly.. that's what I fear too that a dejected and a despondent nation will loose all the trust in the military especially the establishment and that will be a perfect recipe for disaster for the country i.e. nation not standing behind its military. Up to so far, people have always looked up to the army as the last ray of hope and security, they have neglected their mistakes whether its was handling of the situation in east Pakistan, killing the democratically elected and highly popular PM, joining WoT and then NRO..
 
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The DAWN news leak case will be even more problamatic if a deal is not struck between army and PMLN. It is a matter of National Security and those who did that knowingly can be trmermed as traitors!!!

deal ??
i don't think so Sir, the military itself termed it as "breach of national security". Any compromise on this national security issue between military & gov. will sabotage the image of Armed Forces. In my opinion the next Corps Commanders conference holds critical importance. After that meeting things will be a lot clear !!
 
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deal ??
i don't think so Sir, the military itself termed it as "breach of national security". Any compromise on this national security issue between military & gov. will sabotage the image of Armed Forces. In my opinion the next Corps Commanders conference holds critical importance. After that meeting things will be a lot clear !!

But then...next Corp comm conference will also be last, of Gen Raheel Sharif... It will be more like his farewell call.. I think it will be more like...participants expressed gratitude to Gen Raheel sharif for his services.and so and so........ i dont think we should expect any major statement on dawn leaks in next conference
 
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Panama leaks is the revelation, not evidence. It is leak of mentioned names in the paper according to certain figure. In court, that certain figure has to provide testimony with concrete evidence to present or better yet, find the paper trail to find the connection to the names of the mentioned in the paper. It is record of information based on according to etera etera, hence it is called revelation, not evidence. It is the leak of information according to certain figures that named certain figures behind the account.

Since there is no testimony nor paper trail connection, the case is useless. That's why Nawaz Sharif looks unworried.

But don't see the leak as evidence since it is not, rather see the leak as awareness for the future election approaching ahead. Now Pakistan knows about Panama leak, and Pakistan as nation can decide who to vote for with the information on hand. That is the best news as it can get. :D

Oh my .. 'Revelation is not evidence' hence no case huh! And elections is the only court!

Revelation alone is enough for onus of proof of purchase and funding to fall on the defendant (per NAB laws).

Flats were bought in 93/94 and the evidence of that is available from UK Land Registry (I or anyone can get hold of these official registry documents too). Stamp duty evidence is available too.

1993/94 rules out the kids owing the properties by their own income anyways.

Equation is simple. Show a white money trail out of Pakistan to purchase these apartments OR go to jail.
 
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I read that PTI lawyer once again said they have no evidence in SC? How will this help? The Panama Leaks themselves have to be the evidence?Would be illegal in SC?

It does not matter. SC has taken this case as a matter of 'Public Interest' and this is why it has converted it into a Suo Moto. This means there is no onus on PTI to provide any evidence, and the SC will itself seek evidence.

Now the onus is on the Sharif family to prove that these flats were purchased legally with white money. I can understand the Sharif Family changing land records in Pakistan, but how will they change the land records in UK.
 
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It does not matter. SC has taken this case as a matter of 'Public Interest' and this is why it has converted it into a Suo Moto. This means there is no onus on PTI to provide any evidence, and the SC will itself seek evidence.

Now the onus is on the Sharif family to prove that these flats were purchased legally with white money. I can understand the Sharif Family changing land records in Pakistan, but how will they change the land records in UK.

Thank you. Does Sharif Khandan have "special" friends in UK? If the properties were bought in UAE&KSA tab to mamla khatam tha na,"gifts from royal family".
 
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