Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

[QatariPrince]

JIT can’t use OECD channel to probe Sharif family assets


https://www.dawn.com/news/1328666/jit-cant-use-oecd-channel-to-probe-sharif-family-assets

 

[The Accountant]

JIT can’t use OECD channel to probe Sharif family assets


https://www.dawn.com/news/1328666/jit-cant-use-oecd-channel-to-probe-sharif-family-assets

JIT is a joke to us ...

 

[Farah Sohail]

And I am telling you the decision by the rest of the three judges.. after JIT submits its report, will be that the record of 30-40 years back can't be validated. Benefit of the doubt will take its seat and NS will come clean forever.

.

I am just thinking abt one thing... If findings of JIT will be brought before the same panama bench..it means tht there will not be only 3 judges...but all 5 judges, including Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar...they will not let Nawaz Sharif off the hook..so easily... Atleast 2 judges, we know, will effectively try to challenge the findings of JIT..if they are in Nawaz Sharif's favor...

So basically..only one more judge will have to be convinced...of disqualification... Can Justice IjazulAhsan be tht judge??? Because have heard..tht his remarks were very similar to tht of Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar, but he wanted to give one more chance ..of inquiry??? I havent read Justice IjazulAhsan' s verdict..yet.....Have u read his judgment? @PakSword i think... after JIT completes its work...unka woh objection tu khatam hojayega...tht due process wasnt followed... So maybe he can be convinced for disqualification?

However I am still confused, tht whether JIT will bring its findings before the same bench?? Even after listening to Justice Wajihuddin.. Because a.s the situation stands, 2 of the judges have already mase their mind and given verdict about Nawaz Sharif's disqualification... S will they give again....their verdict after again listening to JIT report? What about judicial neutrality then? Because they have already ordered his disqualification...... So they wont be neutral anymore, after findings of JIT will be brought nefore them.......I dont think......it will be easy and PML N will cry foul.... What ..if these two judges, excuse themselves from it? However I am not sure, of whatJustice Wajihuddin says...its precedent..or legal requirement? I think he was saying this baaed on precedent more, than on any law... If this isnt a legal requirement..then I dont think..these two judges will be part of bench......infact I think they will excuse themselves from hearing the case further

Another thing is tht ..I read somewhere tht Advocate is retiring soon..in 1-2 months time... Tu JIT ko tu apna kaam complete karnay main hi 60 days lagein ge...tu unki retirement beech main aasakti hai.. Phir ye same bench kaisy karay ga hearing.. Jit ke baad?

 

[Farah Sohail]

I was wrong when I said PA couldn't do compromise on this one as officers' pressure in too much in this case..

This case is creating a sense of helplessness in Army ranks, and I am telling you this with 100 % surety.. Our leadership is taking us to a very dangerous place, coming back from where is extremely difficult if not impossible.

@bold... I told you na? Tht military leadership has done NRO on dawn leaks... Indications were very visible ... My initial assessment abt Gen Bajwa was right.. I didnt get good vibes abt Gen Bajwa from day 1... And i think 90% or the time..initial assessment/impression is correct...

Even look at this panama case... Hum ne shuru main hi pakora judge aur Advocate ko pehchaan liya tha... Although later, pakora tried to give a different impression too, twards the end or hearing, but I was still not completely sure abt him, tht he he has changed.. I had doubts abt him...and those fears proved to be correct....

So mujhe lagta hai, ke shuru main jo vibes aayein..wohi theek hoti hain... There was a reason Gen Ashfaq Nadeem was ignored and Gen Bajwa was chosen... Although i still have reservations on Gen Raheel' inaction on dawn leaks.. Lekin aap sirf karachi Rangers ko hi dekh lein.. Gen raheel ke waqt main woh kitnay active thay..aur high profile logon ko pakar rahay thay...and now they have been reduced to arresting street criminals like ppl..aur chotay motay terrorists...

Dawn leaks par compromise / NRO bhtt evident tha.. Infact woh Gen Raheel ke waqt main hi lag gaya tha ke compromise hogaya hai, when they agreed on this committee.. Bas public ko bewaqoof banaya jaaraha tha...
But Gen Bajwa ke waqt se NRO ko ek nayi zindagi mili hai

 

[PakSword]

@Farah Sohail

In my opinion, there are two matters being discussed here.. Both of them are separate. I am yet to find what's Justice Ijaz ul Ahsan's standpoint on 62/ 63.. Two judges have disqualified PM on 62/63. Two have said they don't think 62/63 cover moral dishonesty.

The JIT is about criminal investigation. In which two judges said that PM is a criminal (as the burden of proof was on the accused in their opinion), one judge said that he seems to be a criminal but there were some documents challenged by the defendant, so let's find out about it (a balanced verdict). Two say that unless there is clear evidence, PM can't be disqualified. They have effectively put the burden of proof on accuser, but still say that PM should have cleared himself by providing the docs... not providing means there is some hanky panky.. so let's find out..

The most important thing, the three have rejected Qatari letter.. but still say they need to find out how the money was transferred to Qatar.. This effectively means that they are still believing Qatari story..

Now if the JIT only needs to find out how the money was transferred to Qatar, it will roam around as a bunch of headless chickens.. Something that didn't go to Qatar in the first place (as the Qatari story is fake noted by all the judges), how on earth they are looking for "HOW".. This is where I say the judgment is indeed very poorly written.. The answer of this question will be that the Qatari will get his letter authenticated and then say that it was baray miaan saanp who sent the money by cash..

Ideally, the JIT should have been given the task of finding out how the money was transferred to Panama, or investigate the payments made to purchase the flats in 1993.. but this task is not part of the JIT.. They are only looking at Qatar despite rejecting Qatari letter..

This is why I think kuchh nahi hosakta.. Aap dekhti jaein yeh kaisay nikaltay hain surkhroo hokay..

@bold... I told you na? Tht military leadership has done NRO on dawn leaks... Indications were very visible ... My initial assessment abt Gen Bajwa was right.. I didnt get good vibes abt Gen Bajwa from day 1... And i think 90% or the time..initial assessment/impression is correct...

Even look at this panama case... Hum ne shuru main hi pakora judge aur Advocate ko pehchaan liya tha... Although later, pakora tried to give a different impression too, twards the end or hearing, but I was still not completely sure abt him, tht he he has changed.. I had doubts abt him...and those fears proved to be correct....

So mujhe lagta hai, ke shuru main jo vibes aayein..wohi theek hoti hain... There was a reason Gen Ashfaq Nadeem was ignored and Gen Bajwa was chosen... Although i still have reservations on Gen Raheel' inaction on dawn leaks.. Lekin aap sirf karachi Rangers ko hi dekh lein.. Gen raheel ke waqt main woh kitnay active thay..aur high profile logon ko pakar rahay thay...and now they have been reduced to arresting street criminals like ppl..aur chotay motay terrorists...

Dawn leaks par compromise / NRO bhtt evident tha.. Infact woh Raheel ke waqt main hi lag gaya tha ke compromise hogaya hai, when they agreed on this committee.. Bas public ko bewaqoof banaya jaaraha tha...
But Gen Bajwa ke waqt se NRO ko ek nayi zindagi mili hai

I am still waiting for the Dawn Leaks report.. But I can easily say at this moment, after looking at how the drama is being unfolded, you were right in your assumptions..

This judgement and Dawn Leaks compromise, both show that Maryam is being saved..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

When some people used to say that another DG ISI in the past i.e., General Pasha was supporting PTI, then they were termed false flaggers and traitors on this forum.

Sir, what should you be called now for pointing out the incumbent DG ISI?

And what would you say about the late holy God Father of PDF jingoists General Hameed Gul who distributed money to IJI (Nawaz included) against Benazir in 1989?

If I tell you that me and my family were supporters of this moron, back in 90s when he was considered as the torch bearer of right wingers, a force of good against the evil Benazir, would that make me and my family traitors?

A lot of water have passed since under the bridge, if corruption, nepotism, incompetency wasn't bad enough, dirty dealing with forigen powers and worst with enemy nations of Pakistan, was the icing on the cake.

Establishment brought him for a purpose and he failed, went on a tangent. And if present setup in establishment is supporting this moron, then only one conclusion can be drawn out of this. It's only the petty personal interests of those sitting on top is at play here against the national interests.

Watch the space, come the time of retirement of Bajwa when names for new COAS goes to the table of Maryam Safdar (your future PM), the incumbent ISI cheif will be automatic choice. On the basis of, I have rubbed your back, now you rub mine. Everyone happy with this arrangement even the international establishment except those who want put Pakistan on righteous path.

There should be no holly cows in Pakistan now if this country has to achive it's full potential.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Yes, very few.. 1 in 10000.

I don't think we will see even one in 10000 after a few years time.. looking at how our public service examinations are conducted and how the existing officers are promoted.

I dont know... But....

I dont think..ke achay officers ka ratio itnaa kam hai? After all ...even in judiciary we have ppl like Justice Qazi Faiz Isa, Mansoor Ali Shah, along with Justice Khosa and Gulzar.. Read praises abt Justice Amir Hani Mulsim too, who recently retired...tht he also favored the underdog and challenged ppl at the top...

In bureaucracy..we have had ppl like Shoaib Suddle, Tariq Khosa, Shariq Jamal, Mohd Ali Nekokara...etc.., former AIG Sindh police Shahid Hayat.... Hosakta hai ke aur bhi log hon..ye woh hain, who came in the limelight...

Bas top leadership..ek dafa achi aajaye...kisi tarah..tu honest log bureaucracy main bhi mil jayein ge...

 

[PakSword]

I dont know... But....

I dont think..ke achay officers ka ratio itnaa kam hai? After all ...even in judiciary we have ppl like Justice Qazi Faiz Isa, Mansoor Ali Shah, along with Justice Khosa and Gulzar.. Read praises abt Justice Amir Hani Mulsim too, who recently retired...tht he also favored the underdog and challenged ppl at the top...

In bureaucracy..we have had ppl like Shoaib Suddle, Tariq Khosa, Shariq Jamal, Mohd Ali Nekokara...etc.., former AIG Sindh ppl Shahid Hayat.... Hosakta hai ke aur bhi log hon..ye woh hain, who came in the limelight...

Bas top leadership..ek dafa achi aajaye...kisi tarah..tu honest log bureaucracy main bhi mil jayein ge...

They are all getting old.. Some are being sidelined... The new generation of officers coming in is mostly corrupt..

80s and early 90s main bharti honay walay officer hi reh gaey hain abb hamarey assets.. woh bhi aahista aahista chhortay ja rahay hain..

We need quaid.e.azam type of visionary leader ...

Then we need to invent a time machine that can go back in time.. But scientifically, it is not possible to go back in time.. you can only go into future...

 

[Mrc]

Behyai dee halwee tuu saag sariang da changaa.
Besharmain de yaari tuu sanng chorahy daa changa

I think every one knows that . khan will probably have a councillor seat in peshawar in next elections

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Farah Sohail

Ideally, the JIT should have been given the task of finding out how the money was transferred to Panama, or investigate the payments made to purchase the flats in 1993.. but this task is not part of the JIT.. They are only looking at Qatar despite rejecting Qatari letter..

This is why I think kuchh nahi hosakta.. Aap dekhti jaein yeh kaisay nikaltay hain surkhroo hokay..
.

I am unable to unjderstand.. Did the 3 judges even bother to read the dissenting notes? Because what u have said..is exactly tht, has been asked by dissenting judges..to be probed... Justice Khosa's judgment never mentions ..anything abt Qatar....abt how money went Qatar.. Infact dissenting judges ask..this needs to be probed..how money went from Pakistan..so tht those flats could be acquired? Two judges said..all properties of children need to be probed..and see..which of them is the real owner...and whetehr they acted as benamidar for their father..as all were minors when those flats were acquired? These are the real questions..which are asked by dissenting judges...rather than anything abt Qatar... Minority judges..also asked to probe even other properties of PM children.. Not only this...they said FIA report and evidences of Ishaq Dar in hudaibya case ..can still be used ...in these investigations....indicating tht these minority judges believe tht real money trail is infact what is mentioned in FIA feport...

So theres a reason..minority judges didnt mention anything abt Qatar in criminal investigations...esp when they are also future chief justices... Did the majority judges..even bother to read the minority judges' verdict? If not on disqualification...atleast they could agree on the questions to be probed?

I havent read Justice Ijazul Ahsan's verdict...from what u say....i am not sure.. I think ..he just didnot agree on the disqualification...and because he was the junior most in the bench..he went along with the other two..because their basic argument was same..tht there can be no disqualification..so he went along with them... Agar ye disqualofication par 2 judges se agree kartay aur criminal investigations par doosray 2 judges tu aadha teetar aadha bater hojata...

OR.. Is Justice Ijazul Ahsan the one, who ..ppl are saying....was extrenely important and changed his mind at the end?

 

[Baghial]

We need quaid.e.azam type of visionary leader ...

Mullah omer as JIT head

 

[PakSword]

I am unable to unjderstand.. Did the 3 judges even bother to read the dissenting notes? Because what u have said..is exactly tht, has been asked by dissenting judges..to be probed... Justice Khosa's judgment never mentions ..anything abt Qatar....abt how money went Qatar.. Infact dissenting judges ask..this needs to be probed..how money went from Pakistan..so tht those flats could be acquired? Two judges said..all properties of children need to be probed..and see..which of them is the real owner...and whetehr they acted as benamidar for their father..as all were minors when those flats were acquired? These are the real questions..which are asked by sissenting judges...rather than anything abt Qatar... Minority judges..also asked to probe even other properties of PM children.. Not only this...they said FIA report and evidences of Idhaq Dar in hidaibya case ..can still be used ...in these investigations....indicating tht these minority judges believe tht real money trail is infact what is mentioned in FIA feport...

So theres a reason..minority judges didnt mention anything abt Qatar in criminal investigations...esp when they are also future chief justices... Did the majority judges..even bother to read the minority judges' verdict? If not on disqualification...atleast they could agree on the questions to be probed?

I havent read Justice Ijazul Ahsan's verdict...from what u say....i am not sure.. I think ..he just didnot agree on the disqualification...and because he was the junior most in the bench..he went along with the other two..because their basic argument was same..tht there can be no disqualification..so he went along with them...

OR.. Is Justice Ijazul Ahsan the one, who was extrenely important and changed his mind at the end?

yehi tou main keh raha hun..

Including Qatar in their judgment, despite rejecting Qatari letter just doesn't make any sense.. They should have accepted the letter first, don't know what stopped them.. Maybe they thought that people will start bringing the letters after this judgement. So let's reject the letter, but still investigate only Qatari transactions..

Isi liey tou keh raha hun.. Advocate aur Pakora ki judgments bollywood ko bechi jasakti hain.. aur acha zarre bubadla kamaya jasakta hai..

Aap ne dekha, ke if London transactions would be included for investigation, Hudaiybiya would have certainly opened..

So...... lollll lolll lollll

Abb bhi hum agar nahi samjhay ke yeh judgement kis liey di gaee hai tou hamari apni aqal pe matam hona chahiey..

Our last news "The judgement is against NS but will give him a way to get away in the longer run" was 100% true..

 

[Farah Sohail]

yehi tou main keh raha hun..

Including Qatar in their judgment, despite rejecting Qatari letter just doesn't make any sense.. They should have accepted the letter first, don't know what stopped them.. Maybe they thought that people will start bringing the letters after this judgement. So let's reject the letter, but still investigate only Qatari transactions..

Isi liey tou keh raha hun.. Advocate aur Pakora ki judgments bollywood ko bechi jasakti hain.. aur acha zarre bubadla kamaya jasakta hai..

Aap ne dekha, ke if London transactions would be included for investigation, Hudaiybiya would have certainly opened..

So...... lollll lolll lollll

Abb bhi hum agar nahi samjhay ke yeh judgement kis liey di gaee hai tou hamari apni aqal pe matam hona chahiey..

Our last news "The judgement is against NS but will give him a way to get away in the longer run" was 100% true..

I still want to know...did the majority judges even bother to read the minority verdict? Ya bas unhon ne yeh keh kar..ke we dont agree on disqualification..unhon ne minority verdict parhi hi nahi???? Because ...if....they would have read...atleast criminal investigations ke silsilay main tu unhein thori si aqal aajati..ke actually kia questions poochnay chahyein???

Minority judges ne is baat par bhi emphasize kiya..ke FIA ki report ko..as evidence use karein...and although they didnt ask NAB to challenge...LHC verdict on hudaibya..due to legal reasons ....but .they still said tht pardon of Ishaq Dar is gone..and investigations on him can be restarted and all evidences in tht hudaibya case..can also be used in probing Sharif family, if theres a link... Isnt it a balanced verdict???

Atleast parh tu lete..ke minority judges ne likha kiya hai...shayad unhein kuch aqal aajati...

Lekin majority judges main se pakora aur Advocate ki neeyat hi theek nahi lagti

Waisy ..agar JIT wapis...is panama bench ke saamnay hi aati hai...tu ..do u think tht Justice Khosa and Gulzar will let NawazSharif..off the hook...so easily??? @PakSword

Lekin phir wohi baat..ke because it can compromise judicial neutrality..so I think these two judges will themselves want to be excused from tht bench... Unless and until its a legal requirement for them to be there..i dont think they will agree to be part of tht later bench.. If its a matter of only precedence and not law..then I dont think these two judges will agree to be part of tht bench..after JIT completes its work....because they have already given verdict on Nawaz Sharif's disqualification and hence..their bias is publicly known...so they will most probably refuse

yehi tou main keh raha hun..

Including Qatar in their judgment, despite rejecting Qatari letter just doesn't make any sense.. They should have accepted the letter first, don't know what stopped them.. Maybe they thought that people will start bringing the letters after this judgement. So let's reject the letter, but still investigate only Qatari transactions..

Isi liey tou keh raha hun.. Advocate aur Pakora ki judgments bollywood ko bechi jasakti hain.. aur acha zarre bubadla kamaya jasakta hai..

I dont know abt pakora judge..and Justice Ijazul Ahsan..but Advocate hasnt outrightly rejected qatari letter.. He said..we still need to know..whether Qatari letter is a myth or reality? After 2months hearing...and no evidence in support of qatari letter..he still isnt sure..tht whetehr qatari letter is a myth or reality? This is all he said regd qatari letter...

As I said...earlier too...it seems tht Advocate first decided before writing the verdict tht how to bailout Sharif family? And then after making up his mind..he tried to bring as many clauses and as many constituitional articles, lopholes tht could be used in sharif family's favor...thts it.... Advocate acted as a defense laywer of sharif famiky in his whole verdict...

 

[PakSword]

I still want to know...did the majority judges even bother to read the minority verdict? Ya bas unhon ne yeh keh kar..ke we dont agree on disqualification..unhon ne minority verdict parhi hi nahi???? Because ...if....they would have read...atleast criminal investigations ke silsilay main tu unhein thori si aqal aajati..ke actually kia questions poochnay chahyein???

Kia farq parta hai.. parhi ho ya nahi.. agar yeh musalmaan hain tou asar Quran parh kar hi hojana chahiey tha..

Aap ko aik baat aur bataun.. 3-2 se case taqreeban NS haar raha tha.. although one judge was still confused.. phir he had to resort to even a lesser punishment/ no punishment.

Justice Khosa ne kuchh parts yeh dekhnay ke baad shamil kiey hain jo judgement main initially nahi thay.. jab unhon ne dekh lia ke NS nikal gaya iss muamlay se.. and he knew that abb long run main bhi nikal jaega.. he thought ke lets name him GODFATHER.. at least NS will be called a mafia head from now on..

His verdict was very balanced.. but he changed the tone later.. after feeling helpless..

I dont know abt pakora judge..and Justice Ijazul Ahsan..but Advocate hasnt outrightly rejected qatari letter.. He said..we still need to know..whether Qatari letter is a myth or reality? After 2months hearing...and no evidence in support of qatari letter..he still isnt sure..tht whetehr qatari letter is a myth or reality? This is all he said regd qatari letter...

Aap ko main iss judgement ki summary deta hun..

Disqualification-------------- NS Won 3-2 ----- RESULT ----- No Disqualification
Investigation----------------- NS lost 5-0 ----- RESULT ----- Investigation Started
Hudaibya Reopening -------- NS Won 3-2 ------ RESULT ----- Hudaiybiya Closed forever
Qatari Letter Acceptance --- NS Lost 4-1 ------ RESULT ------ Qatari Letter Rejected
PMs Muaqif about QATAR --- NS Won 3-2 ------ RESULT ----- Qatar is still in picture

Now they will have to bring more proofs for Qatari transactions..

Waisy ..agar JIT wapis...is panama bench ke saamnay hi aati hai...tu ..do u think tht Justice Khosa and Gulzar will let NawazSharif..off the hook...so easily??? @PakSword

Justice Khosa and Gulzar won't even bother reading the JIT report.. They have already made up their mind.. It is only one judge who still has to make up his mind..

Advocate is minority in many aspects of the judgment.. So he won't matter.. But I am talking about the implementation of this judgment in developed countries, not in Pakistan.. In Pakistan you can expect anything..

 

[Verve]

the bribe gets distributed according to your grade and role at determined formula.

Same in Customs! Confiscated goods are distributed as well. Seen it all with own eyes.