PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Feudalism is Against the Idea of Pakistan!

If we had courageous and knowledgeable politicians and thinkers who could study Islamic history, it would be very easy to galvanize the people of Pakistan (whose hearts and minds are deeply devoted to Islam.)

Who will tell the masses of Pakistanis that it was one of Hazrat Umar's RA first actions to institute land reforms in the nascent Islamic state? He disallowed the right of any offspring to inherit land from his father, and did this to bring equality and prevent a poisonous upper class from forming.

If we claim to follow Islam, let us research our own history and use the template of our progenitors to fix our society for the better.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

If we had courageous and knowledgeable politicians and thinkers who could study Islamic history, it would be very easy to galvanize the people of Pakistan (whose hearts and minds are deeply devoted to Islam.)

Who will tell the masses of Pakistanis that it was one of Hazrat Umar's RA first actions to institute land reforms in the nascent Islamic state? He disallowed the right of any offspring to inherit land from his father, and did this to bring equality and prevent a poisonous upper class from forming.

If we claim to follow Islam, let us research our own history and use the template of our progenitors to fix our society for the better.

Time for lamentation is Over!

The Momentum of History is at almost our doorsteps... Choices have a way of Imposing themselves...when the time is no longer there!

Rumi said something fundamental...

You have seen my Fall,
Now Watch my Rise!!!

Unless, deep within we have an unforced Feeling that we have a Date with Destiny... we shall remain in abject condition that we are.

Mangus

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Time for lamentation is Over!

The Momentum of History is at almost our doorsteps... Choices have a way of Imposing themselves...when the time is no longer there!

Rumi said something fundamental...

You have seen my Fall,
Now Watch my Rise!!!

Unless, deep within we have an unforced Feeling that we have a Date with Destiny... we shall remain in abject condition that we are.

Mangus

I think you nailed the chief cause of our economic and societal woes. In 2020, a feudal society cannot compete with industrialized nations.

We need a monumental shift. We should study Turkey, Japan, China, and Malaysia which embraced changes to meet the demand of a new world reality.

We cannot stay back in the past, we must move forward.

 

[Musings]

YoungPakBrother mine,

Yes. Yes. Yes.

OurLand, OurRivers...

From ground up Rebuilding the Realm... The Heartland can only flourish when the ColonialSystem is dismantled.

Babucracy...needs uprooting.

A System which holds the Functions of the State to work in Harmony can never allow Pakistan to Flourish.

And Flourish we must!

No more PakBlood for Free!

Mangus

Mark my words if these retards in exile like the Sharif sons return part of Pak society will greet them as superheros - that unfortunately is something we need to wipe out. Shouldnt have allowed them to leave and use the money they have looted to live lavish lifestyles in the UK.

IK please have these balls the country is looking for!!!

 

[Verve]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-positive-section-in-pakistan-affairs-sub-forum.679050/

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Verve @peagle @Musings @Mentee @StormBreaker @Blacklight @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Yankee-stani @DESERT FIGHTER @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @N.Siddiqui @Reddington @masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Ark_Angel @Signalian @PanzerKiel @Slav Defence @HRK

The Idea of Pakistan is NOT just an intellectual exercise or some Invention of Mythology...

It is Alive because We Gave PakBlood for it!

The Scarifice was Monumental as is Pakistan's Destiny to be Monumental...

However, before that we need to have a Sense of Oursleves without fake-slogans or -isms ... Our PakDialectis can only emerge when we have Clarity of PakSelf!

We have seen other's copy/pasting The Idea of Pakistan in an attempt to steal the Soul of The Idea of Pakistan... it cann't have life...because it is Fake Construct!

The publication of the PoliticalMap of OurPakistan by the current Gov is an infantal step in the right direction... even though the required vigour is missing!

No longer the Lies and Deceit of the British GeoConstruct can presist...as the Paks are coming Alive to the Truth behind the British Geostrategic Project in the former PakEmpire.

Ladakh after the Swift Retort has exposed the inhert contraditions and weaknesses of the British GeoConstruct and its Practial Value against The Dragon and the SnowLeopard...

The Land of the Dancing Horse, OurLand, has a BeatingHeart..which comes from us Paks... anywhere and everywhere...with our million and one flaws...

More than a Million Paks gave Blood to Give Life to the PakHeart...

Unless we find our centre within we cann't act without... and that can only happen if we have Clarity about Ourselves as a Composite!

PakPositivism is a Journey towards becoming what The Idea of Pakistan was/is meant to be.

Of course, it is not going to happen tomorrow or day after... but march we must... same way in '47 the Paks left everything behind...and marched towards Pakistan!

Without giving ourselves too much credit or too little ... we can only be if we are Ruthlessly True to Ourselves...

Rationality. Logic. Application of Reason in Discourse here on PDF when we engage the others.

Despite PDF being a nano-space... theoratically, it is PakistaniSpace... i.e. OurSpace, our little PakCorner.. where we can build on eachother's strength, erasing our weaknesses with Ittihad, Iman and Tanzeem.

Mangus

PaaJee @SIPRA I hope you come back!

 

[peagle]

@Verve @peagle @Musings @Mentee @StormBreaker @Blacklight @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Yankee-stani @DESERT FIGHTER @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @N.Siddiqui @Reddington @masterchief_mirza @Ace of Spades @Ark_Angel @Signalian @PanzerKiel @Slav Defence @HRK

The Idea of Pakistan is NOT just an intellectual exercise or some Invention of Mythology...

It is Alive because We Gave PakBlood for it!

The Scarifice was Monumental as is Pakistan's Destiny to be Monumental...

However, before that we need to have a Sense of Oursleves without fake-slogans or -isms ... Our PakDialectis can only emerge when we have Clarity of PakSelf!

We have seen other's copy/pasting The Idea of Pakistan in an attempt to steal the Soul of The Idea of Pakistan... it cann't have life...because it is Fake Construct!

The publication of the PoliticalMap of OurPakistan by the current Gov is an infantal step in the right direction... even though the required vigour is missing!

No longer the Lies and Deceit of the British GeoConstruct can presist...as the Paks are coming Alive to the Truth behind the British Geostrategic Project in the former PakEmpire.

Ladakh after the Swift Retort has exposed the inhert contraditions and weaknesses of the British GeoConstruct and its Practial Value against The Dragon and the SnowLeopard...

The Land of the Dancing Horse, OurLand, has a BeatingHeart..which comes from us Paks... anywhere and everywhere...with our million and one flaws...

More than a Million Paks gave Blood to Give Life to the PakHeart...

Unless we find our centre within we cann't act without... and that can only happen if we have Clarity about Ourselves as a Composite!

PakPositivism is a Journey towards becoming what The Idea of Pakistan was/is meant to be.

Of course, it is not going to happen tomorrow or day after... but march we must... same way in '47 the Paks left everything behind...and marched towards Pakistan!

Without giving ourselves too much credit or too little ... we can only be if we are Ruthlessly True to Ourselves...

Rationality. Logic. Application of Reason in Discourse here on PDF when we engage the others.

Despite PDF being a nano-space... theoratically, it is PakistaniSpace... i.e. OurSpace, our little PakCorner.. where we can build on eachother's strength, erasing our weaknesses with Ittihad, Iman and Tanzeem.

Mangus

PaaJee @SIPRA I hope you come back!

I am very much secular in nature, although not in the way it is typically described by the liberals. But, I do not believe our societies are secular, because we are all, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and where else, still conservative at heart. SO stop this drama of secularism.

This is the first truth we need to recognise and put a mirror in front of others in South Asia, who prefer to stick with their secular fantasies. Anyone wishing me to expand, please ask and I shall justify my points in detail.

For me Pakistan is not just a country, nor is it an idea, it is something I feel within when I think, I say, I hear the word Pakistan, a million, billion voices inside me automatically shout zindabad. Although as a nation we are not good at expressing our patriotism but I see my feelings reflected in every Pakistani in their own ways.
That Fire, that Love, that ISHQ that emotional volcano ready to erupt when we hear the word PAKISTAN, I see that across every Pakistani.

SO, let us stop finding ourselves because we have found ourselves, we are already a nation reborn, from the ashes of the Indus Valley civilisation to the modern nation-state. We live again.

We have forgotten how far we have come,
There was no industry in Pakistan at the time of independence,

No Infrastructure > No Organised Government > broken Civil Service > no Institutions that make up a nation-state > no Armed Forces > Nothing that was needed.

Just over 5 million people left and 7 million refugees came, That's equivalent of 25% of the population consisted of refugees,

Imagine India taking in 300 million refugees now
Germany taking in 20 million refugees
The USA taking in 70 million refugees
let us see how these countries would cope, THEY WOULD COLLAPSE OVERNIGHT, we did it without a fully functioning state, whist building new institutions, whilst fight a bigger enemy,

we not only survived but came out stronger because what holds us together is the glue that was first used thousands of year ago in the Indus Valley Civilisation, that glue is in our blood, our innate sense of nationhood, that unspoken bond of family. That is what held us together and always will.

War with an enemy 11 times bigger at the time
The total number of enrolled university students was if I remember correctly 684, that is it, less than a 1000 enrolled students in the entire country of Pakistan. Now I think is about 2 million.

Again if anyone wishes I will expand to your heart's desire if you wish it.

We need to RECOGNISE that we have come far, and I do recognise we underachieved, it is a shame but that also speaks of our potential.

My logic dictates that we need to keep our heads down just for a decade or two (without leaving alone our Kashmiri brothers and sisters) and concentrate on development, no infighting, just development. It matters not what harm others wish for us, just concentrate on ourselves.

Plus, learn and revisit historical arguments that we have accepted so readily, we find it so easy to answer or replicate a different version of arguments already given to us, we do not judge history by being fair to ourselves. There is an urgent need for an unbiased critical evaluation of our history.

The formula is simple, we just need to be honest with ourselves, and please please please everyone stop being over critical, the world is doing that for us, don't do it to yourselves.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

I am very much secular in nature, although not in the way it is typically described by the liberals. But, I do not believe our societies are secular, because we are all, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and where else, still conservative at heart. SO stop this drama of secularism.

This is the first truth we need to recognise and put a mirror in front of others in South Asia, who prefer to stick with their secular fantasies. Anyone wishing me to expand, please ask and I shall justify my points in detail.

For me Pakistan is not just a country, nor is it an idea, it is something I feel within when I think, I say, I hear the word Pakistan, a million, billion voices inside me automatically shout zindabad. Although as a nation we are not good at expressing our patriotism but I see my feelings reflected in every Pakistani in their own ways.
That Fire, that Love, that ISHQ that emotional volcano ready to erupt when we hear the word PAKISTAN, I see that across every Pakistani.

SO, let us stop finding ourselves because we have found ourselves, we are already a nation reborn, from the ashes of the Indus Valley civilisation to the modern nation-state. We live again.

We have forgotten how far we have come,
There was no industry in Pakistan at the time of independence,

No Infrastructure > No Organised Government > broken Civil Service > no Institutions that make up a nation-state > no Armed Forces > Nothing that was needed.

Just over 5 million people left and 7 million refugees came, That's equivalent of 25% of the population consisted of refugees,

Imagine India taking in 300 million refugees now
Germany taking in 20 million refugees
The USA taking in 70 million refugees
let us see how these countries would cope, THEY WOULD COLLAPSE OVERNIGHT, we did it without a fully functioning state, whist building new institutions, whilst fight a bigger enemy,

we not only survived but came out stronger because what holds us together is the glue that was first used thousands of year ago in the Indus Valley Civilisation, that glue is in our blood, our innate sense of nationhood, that unspoken bond of family. That is what held us together and always will.

War with an enemy 11 times bigger at the time
The total number of enrolled university students was if I remember correctly 684, that is it, less than a 1000 enrolled students in the entire country of Pakistan. Now I think is about 2 million.

Again if anyone wishes I will expand to your heart's desire if you wish it.

We need to RECOGNISE that we have come far, and I do recognise we underachieved, it is a shame but that also speaks of our potential.

My logic dictates that we need to keep our heads down just for a decade or two (without leaving alone our Kashmiri brothers and sisters) and concentrate on development, no infighting, just development. It matters not what harm others wish for us, just concentrate on ourselves.

Plus, learn and revisit historical arguments that we have accepted so readily, we find it so easy to answer or replicate a different version of arguments already given to us, we do not judge history by being fair to ourselves. There is an urgent need for an unbiased critical evaluation of our history.

The formula is simple, we just need to be honest with ourselves, and please please please everyone stop being over critical, the world is doing that for us, don't do it to yourselves.

O yaar... We are Forged in PakBlood and We are Forged of PakBlood.

It is the Onwership of the Entirety of Pakistan.. as Continuous Composite that needs revisiting by the PoliticalClass...

The Criminal Negelect of Pakistanism has had its effects... lets say that the Khottaism of the Ruling elites is the culprit.

Forever PakistanZindabad!!!

 

[peagle]

O yaar... We are Forged in PakBlood and We are Forged of PakBlood.

It is the Onwership of the Entirety of Pakistan.. as Continuous Composite that needs revisiting by the PoliticalClass...

The Criminal Negelect of Pakistanism has had its effects... lets say that the Khottaism of the Ruling elites is the culprit.

Forever PakistanZindabad!!!

I myself don't blame anyone as such, but the ruling elite and the citizenship, we all need to take ownership of our share of the responsibility. Blame game achieves nothing.

We are obviously doing something right, that's why the sense of Pakistaniate is so strong across the land, the oneness is not only alive but has become and becoming stronger.

It is not to say that we should sit on our laurels, so education, education and educate. You and the likes of you are doing your bit, well done and thank you

Awesome video but watch from 50:50 to prove my point, I've heard this being said so often, look at his face when he says it. There is an image, but this is the reality that gets ignored.

I've yet to see anyone being touched like this by another country and its culture like her in this video.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Despite PDF being a nano-space... theoratically, it is PakistaniSpace

The management beg to differ... there are few holy cows that ridicule some young posters, and when they react i see them getting punished with no consequence to the holy cows from across the border.

I am coming to conclusion that it's pointless...

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I am very much secular in nature, although not in the way it is typically described by the liberals. But, I do not believe our societies are secular, because we are all, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and where else, still conservative at heart. SO stop this drama of secularism.

This is the first truth we need to recognise and put a mirror in front of others in South Asia, who prefer to stick with their secular fantasies. Anyone wishing me to expand, please ask and I shall justify my points in detail.

For me Pakistan is not just a country, nor is it an idea, it is something I feel within when I think, I say, I hear the word Pakistan, a million, billion voices inside me automatically shout zindabad. Although as a nation we are not good at expressing our patriotism but I see my feelings reflected in every Pakistani in their own ways.
That Fire, that Love, that ISHQ that emotional volcano ready to erupt when we hear the word PAKISTAN, I see that across every Pakistani.

SO, let us stop finding ourselves because we have found ourselves, we are already a nation reborn, from the ashes of the Indus Valley civilisation to the modern nation-state. We live again.

We have forgotten how far we have come,
There was no industry in Pakistan at the time of independence,

No Infrastructure > No Organised Government > broken Civil Service > no Institutions that make up a nation-state > no Armed Forces > Nothing that was needed.

Just over 5 million people left and 7 million refugees came, That's equivalent of 25% of the population consisted of refugees,

Imagine India taking in 300 million refugees now
Germany taking in 20 million refugees
The USA taking in 70 million refugees
let us see how these countries would cope, THEY WOULD COLLAPSE OVERNIGHT, we did it without a fully functioning state, whist building new institutions, whilst fight a bigger enemy,

we not only survived but came out stronger because what holds us together is the glue that was first used thousands of year ago in the Indus Valley Civilisation, that glue is in our blood, our innate sense of nationhood, that unspoken bond of family. That is what held us together and always will.

War with an enemy 11 times bigger at the time
The total number of enrolled university students was if I remember correctly 684, that is it, less than a 1000 enrolled students in the entire country of Pakistan. Now I think is about 2 million.

Again if anyone wishes I will expand to your heart's desire if you wish it.

We need to RECOGNISE that we have come far, and I do recognise we underachieved, it is a shame but that also speaks of our potential.

My logic dictates that we need to keep our heads down just for a decade or two (without leaving alone our Kashmiri brothers and sisters) and concentrate on development, no infighting, just development. It matters not what harm others wish for us, just concentrate on ourselves.

Plus, learn and revisit historical arguments that we have accepted so readily, we find it so easy to answer or replicate a different version of arguments already given to us, we do not judge history by being fair to ourselves. There is an urgent need for an unbiased critical evaluation of our history.

The formula is simple, we just need to be honest with ourselves, and please please please everyone stop being over critical, the world is doing that for us, don't do it to yourselves.

Excellent post.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am very much secular in nature, although not in the way it is typically described by the liberals. But, I do not believe our societies are secular, because we are all, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and where else, still conservative at heart. SO stop this drama of secularism.

This is the first truth we need to recognise and put a mirror in front of others in South Asia, who prefer to stick with their secular fantasies. Anyone wishing me to expand, please ask and I shall justify my points in detail.

For me Pakistan is not just a country, nor is it an idea, it is something I feel within when I think, I say, I hear the word Pakistan, a million, billion voices inside me automatically shout zindabad. Although as a nation we are not good at expressing our patriotism but I see my feelings reflected in every Pakistani in their own ways.
That Fire, that Love, that ISHQ that emotional volcano ready to erupt when we hear the word PAKISTAN, I see that across every Pakistani.

SO, let us stop finding ourselves because we have found ourselves, we are already a nation reborn, from the ashes of the Indus Valley civilisation to the modern nation-state. We live again.

We have forgotten how far we have come,
There was no industry in Pakistan at the time of independence,

No Infrastructure > No Organised Government > broken Civil Service > no Institutions that make up a nation-state > no Armed Forces > Nothing that was needed.

Just over 5 million people left and 7 million refugees came, That's equivalent of 25% of the population consisted of refugees,

Imagine India taking in 300 million refugees now
Germany taking in 20 million refugees
The USA taking in 70 million refugees
let us see how these countries would cope, THEY WOULD COLLAPSE OVERNIGHT, we did it without a fully functioning state, whist building new institutions, whilst fight a bigger enemy,

we not only survived but came out stronger because what holds us together is the glue that was first used thousands of year ago in the Indus Valley Civilisation, that glue is in our blood, our innate sense of nationhood, that unspoken bond of family. That is what held us together and always will.

War with an enemy 11 times bigger at the time
The total number of enrolled university students was if I remember correctly 684, that is it, less than a 1000 enrolled students in the entire country of Pakistan. Now I think is about 2 million.

Again if anyone wishes I will expand to your heart's desire if you wish it.

We need to RECOGNISE that we have come far, and I do recognise we underachieved, it is a shame but that also speaks of our potential.

My logic dictates that we need to keep our heads down just for a decade or two (without leaving alone our Kashmiri brothers and sisters) and concentrate on development, no infighting, just development. It matters not what harm others wish for us, just concentrate on ourselves.

Plus, learn and revisit historical arguments that we have accepted so readily, we find it so easy to answer or replicate a different version of arguments already given to us, we do not judge history by being fair to ourselves. There is an urgent need for an unbiased critical evaluation of our history.

The formula is simple, we just need to be honest with ourselves, and please please please everyone stop being over critical, the world is doing that for us, don't do it to yourselves.

Great post brother. This post itself deserves its own thread so that more can see it.

If you want to discuss Pakistani history to undo the revisionism and accepted historical arguments of the past, I am very interested. If you open a thread on it, please tag me.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The management beg to differ... there are few holy cows that ridicule some young posters, and when they react i see them getting punished with no consequence to the holy cows from across the border.

I am coming to conclusion that it's pointless...

There needs to be some solution to this predicament, I find the opening of a subforum by @Mangus Ortus Novem and moderation by him to be a novel solution to this issue.

If moderation can give people like him, @Verve , and you titles, then we can get to work on promoting Pakistanism in a renewed vigour, without interruptions or derailment.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

There needs to be some solution to this predicament, I find the opening of a subforum by @Mangus Ortus Novem and moderation by him to be a novel solution to this issue.

If moderation can give people like him, @Verve , and you titles, then we can get to work on promoting Pakistanism in a renewed vigour, without interruptions or derailment.

O Putar Pakistan dae, merwain ga sanu?

@Verve is our point person and the Right Pak for the job... should such a sub-forum ever come to pass... until then... we shall stick to this thread in this section.

I don't have the energy for much.. hence, only focus on things that matter to us as Paks.

For the rest... bugger all!

PaaJee @SIPRA come back yaar!!!

 

[peagle]

Great post brother. This post itself deserves its own thread so that more can see it.

If you want to discuss Pakistani history to undo the revisionism and accepted historical arguments of the past, I am very interested. If you open a thread on it, please tag me.

Thank you brother, coming from you, it honestly means a lot.

I'm afraid I am an online forum virgin, all I know is how to reply, I managed to open a couple of threads recently because I really wanted to share a couple of videos, but have no idea how to manage a thread.
Frankly, I am happy with my present level of involvement at this stage, but please feel free to involve me and if I have something to contribute, I will happily do so. Take care.