PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[peagle]

Identity is a abstract concept. We reify such notions by using names again and again so that it beginsd to exist like a brand. Like any good brand you need to associate everything positive and do everything to avoid anything negative. That is why brands spend billions on adverts using models, smiling children, fabulous backgrounds etc to create a positive image by association with that brand. Pakistan has failed on this miserably and only succeeded in conjuring the image of terrorist when "Pakistan" is mentioned.

We have failed at this at so many levels.

Your previous reference to Greece, reminded me of visiting a page when I started on PDF, where I think it was you who had given an update on a holiday there. You didn't answer me question, but that's ok lol, I was new lol.

Well, the Greece reference reminded me of an experience I had about 10-15 years ago, an uncles friend was visiting from Greece, and in the course of our discussion, he went on to describe Greece as a large country. When I asked him how large you think Pakistan is? he said he doesn't know but it is not as big as Greece.

Greece was even then over 15 times smaller in population,
and, about 6 times smaller in land area.

I had to make an effort to convince him, because he would not believe me. We always have and continue to constantly put ourselves down. The basic fact of how big we are is important, and we are massive.

The only thing our people know is we are much smaller then India, but no idea what the ratio is, and the fact we are not as smaller as we used to be.
And, the biggest lie that gets repeated so often, I've actually had arguments regarding this, India has many more Muslims then Pakistan, which is a bull-crap statement. It was true up till the 1980s, thereafter Pakistan Muslim population became larger and the gap has been increasing with each passing year. But people mostly do not believe it.

Pakistan Muslim Population 96.5% from 227 million = 219 million
India Muslim population of 15% now from 1360 million = 204 million

By around 2030, Pakistan will have the largest Muslim population of any country, so the largest Muslim country in the world.

These simple things are important in developing a self worth, a sense of confidence.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You didn't answer me question

Apology for not replying but often I just don't have time or just run out of patience just say "sod it". But do please ask that Q again and I will do my best to answer.

 

[Kabira]

Instead of increasing exports or finding markets the only thing left is people export. You see the result.

And thats why its not that big of deal even if well of Pakistanis want to move out. USA/europe white population is in constant decline, their growth is kept up with immigration. We don't have that problem.

 

[peagle]

This is so true. My father friend who is bureaucrat wanted to settle his 7 kids in europe. Reasons could be many...

He is privileged but have doubt about his kids future. Think about this, our population growing at much faster rate then government can afford to hire. Imran Khan talked about pension bomb and pending reforms. Government jobs are status symbol. With private sector destroyed by Bhutto in 70's and low GDP growth rate. Its not surprising even well off people want their kids to move out if possible.

I will say one thing, certain groups have a tradition of migration, its almost fashionable, like you said, the reasons can be many, but among some it is more then the norm. In Pakistan the Punjabi migrate a lot, Kashmiris since the Mangla dam, Urdu speaking of Sind since the 1990s, the Pathans since the 1980s I think, that's the major groups of Pakistan.

If you take India as an example, overseas Indians are mostly from few areas, Punjab is among the richest states of India, but there too the Punjabis love going abroad, other then them, the Gujaratis, Goans, people of Kerala, Bengalis and maharastrians also migrate a lot. The reasons can be many, but there is a trend of certain ethnicities seem to like migrating, you'll find a similar trend around the world.

The Punjabis, I can think of two reasons, the Punjab was always on the cross road of empires, so perhaps they are used to meeting new cultures, and under the British raj, most of their soldiers were Punjabis, and the Punjabis got a chance to see the world and maybe that played a part as well.

Apology for not replying but often I just don't have time or just run out of patience just say "sod it". But do please ask that Q again and I will do my best to answer.

So it was you lol

I enjoy travel myself, although not travelled much lately, did mange to visit about 19 countries in my younger days, not that I am over the hill yet lol

I think I had asked which areas or countries impressed you the most and why.
My travel experience is limited to Europe and South-east Asia, few times I planned trips to Africa but it always got cancelled.

 

[Kabira]

I will say one thing, certain groups have a tradition of migration, its almost fashionable, like you said, the reasons can be many, but among some it is more then the norm. In Pakistan the Punjabi migrate a lot, Kashmiris since the Mangla dam, Urdu speaking of Sind since the 1990s, the Pathans since the 1980s I think, that's the major groups of Pakistan.

If you take India as an example, overseas Indians are mostly from few areas, Punjab is among the richest states of India, but there too the Punjabis love going abroad, other then them, the Gujaratis, Goans, people of Kerala, Bengalis and maharastrians also migrate a lot. The reasons can be many, but there is a trend of certain ethnicities seem to like migrating, you'll find a similar trend around the world.

The Punjabis, I can think of two reasons, the Punjab was always on the cross road of empires, so perhaps they are used to meeting new cultures, and under the British raj, most of their soldiers were Punjabis, and the Punjabis got a chance to see the world and maybe that played a part as well.

I think Pakistanis are lucky to be separate from India. Look at India, all their economic growth is concentrated in south coastal region. Karachi wouldn't exist in current form because there wouldn't be any need. Lahore would be barely another Amritsar.

Do you think Nehru would have allowed Mirpuris to migrate in mass to UK? Or when Bhutto eased restrictions in getting passports for average people. In GCC Pakistanis are like 50% of Indians, but look at India overall population. Our remittances are only like 3-4 times less then India. First thing Sardar Patel did was to reduce sikh soldiers in army proportion to their population, 2%. Maybe that also played role in many of them migrating. He didn't like sikhs much.

Remittances have played huge part in relative prosperity of rural Pakistan vs India. Their migrants are brahmins and other educated high castes from urban areas. Ours are mostly from rural areas. Our rural areas with less diaspora like interior Sindh and Balochistan are poorest.

 

[peagle]

I think Pakistanis are lucky to be separate from India. Look at India, all their economic growth is concentrated in south coastal region. Karachi wouldn't exist in current form because there wouldn't be any need. Lahore would be barely another Amritsar.

Do you think Nehru would have allowed Mirpuris to migrate in mass to UK? Or when Bhutto eased restrictions in getting passports for average people. In GCC Pakistanis are like 50% of Indians, but look at India overall population. Our remittances are only like 3-4 times less then India. First thing Sardar Patel did was to reduce sikh soldiers in army proportion to their population, 2%. Maybe that also played role in many of them migrating. He didn't like sikhs much.

Remittances have played huge part in relative prosperity of rural Pakistan vs India. Their migrants are brahmins and other educated high castes from urban areas. Ours are mostly from rural areas. Our rural areas with less diaspora like interior Sindh and Balochistan are poorest.

I agree with you totally, but with one difference, we were ever together, we were never a country so the question of separation does not arise. For a moment there was a chance Muslim leaders might have wanted to stay in a single country like the British raj, but like you said, its good they decided not to, it would have been a very bad idea.

Regarding Sikhs, I think you'll find even now nearly 25% of Indian soldiers come from Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, the traditional areas of old Punjab, so traditional Punjab dominates Indian armed forces to this day.

 

[TNT]

This is so true. My father friend who is bureaucrat wanted to settle his 7 kids in europe. Reasons could be many...

He is privileged but have doubt about his kids future. Think about this, our population growing at much faster rate then government can afford to hire. Imran Khan talked about pension bomb and pending reforms. Government jobs are status symbol. With private sector destroyed by Bhutto in 70's and low GDP growth rate. Its not surprising even well off people want their kids to move out if possible.

Ur right but if the privileged class does this then what will the ordinary middle class do? If the privileged and ruling class cared about the country and not their personal wealth then they or anyone would not need to escape. Population can be a strength as well if used, we have a huge land mass and can cope with it.