Pakistan's Onslaught Against India at UNGA - What's Next?

[El Sidd]

Salaam alaikum. You know that you are always right.

wa alaykum.

its simple maths buddy. i just dont do Propaganda

 

[Laozi]

wa alaykum.

its simple maths buddy. i just dont do Propaganda

A lot of planning has gone into this move.

What you a prophesying will surely be one of the option on the table.

 

[El Sidd]

A lot of planning has gone into this move.

What you a prophesying will surely be one of the option on the table.

lets wait n see. actually your most brainy financial planned are preparing for the worse

 

[Verve]

And what will be Pakistan's response? Will Pakistan be able to halt the advance or will use nuclear option?

Across CFL in the mountainous areas, yes Pakistan will be able to halt the Indian advance by conventional means. Karakorum Highway is less than 100kms from CFL and IA will aim for it. Cutting off and taking GB will be the main aim of IA. AJK is of far less strategic importance than taking GB.

But when IA crosses IB, unlikely that we will be able hold by just the conventional means. Pakistan will likely use battlefield nukes on IA inside Pakistan only but well away from cities only. Nuclear war, that is M.A.D won't happen, even when Lahore falls.

See this: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-modis-real-game-plan-in-kashmir.633585/

 

[VCheng]

I agree with this.. but after monitoring the situation during the past month or so, I think Pakistan is not willing to involve militarily (both overtly or covertly) in Kashmir if India doesn't attack us.. which in my opinion will not happen...

All we know is that IF India attacks Pakistan, we will fight till the last man. That's for sure.. no one is denying and we very well know about the resolve of our state...

The status quo suits India just fine, so there is no rationale for it to attack. Pakistan is not in an offensive position by any stretch of the imagination, so it is not in its interest to go for open hostilities. Hence, there is no need for either nation to attack the other.

 

[Dual Wielder]

The status quo suits India just fine, so there is no rationale for it to attack. Pakistan is not in an offensive position by any stretch of the imagination, so it is not in its interest to go for open hostilities. Hence, there is no need for either nation to attack the other.

Spoken like a true Indian, lets ignore the plight of the Kashmiri's, your Hindutva masters will not halt here, next they will stop the rivers.. then what?

Pakistan needs to build up the pressure, first close the air space, which itself is long overdue, then put around 100 real/ dummies of Nasr missiles near the IB, by making the world 'think' we're prepared to go to some nuclear extent, which could lead to MAD, they will pressure India, when our PM said 'war is not an option' it had the opposite affect, thinking he does not want war because his a pacifist, which to an extent he is, but what he meant was it would be disastrous due to eventually leading to MAD, he should have called their bluff and climbed higher in the escalation ladder like we did in 27th February, but this time take no prisoners.. I blame his ignorant advisors for this..

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Great thread brother ……. I hope I wont get -v and mod wont delete my post ……. here what I think about "what next".
IK did great (speech) Very well done , Best ever from any Muslim leader ……..Problem is , World and world's leaders already knows every thing ………. Now if nothing happened in next 4 weeks (just say till 26th OCT) in Kashmir ,If Curfew stays , killings and force obductions continues and you still here peace , peace and no war mantra from Pak side then note my words there is something wrong with our political and military elite ………..We already used our last peace built "Kartos (UN) ...
Few people here trying their best to use Kashmiri people shoulder , they are demanding from them to come out and start protests ….. ironic isn't it , first they are in lockdown from last 55 days , 2nd they have almost 1 million terrorist forces on them , 15000+ children taken by terrorist forces , 5000+ adults are missing but Pakistani still want them to come out and do some thing like they are not doing anything from last 30+ years………
IK said this is a long battel and Pakistanis have to have "Saber" I am afraid this is not a long battle and we don't have much time left …….. Kashmiris will not going to wait , they will move on with endia , and that will be death to Pakistan ….
Dear sir we all know Only peace mantra will not going work with endia and world ,,,,,, mobilize forces (IK already told world about WAR , now show them we are fukin serious about it) and then wait if world reacts fine if not then have last and final war with endia , Maybe they will react after war maybe they stop war before it reach MAD stage or Maybe Not... Weak have no standing and no place in this world …..

A lot has already been said in favor of a brilliant and well balanced address of Prime Minister Imran Khan at UNGA. Even many of his critics thoroughly enjoyed and praised PMIK's speech and have been seen saying "proud of being a Pakistani today" after quite a long time. His speech was heard across the globe and at one point, #ImranKhanVoiceOfKashmir became a top trend on twitter. Approximately a million tweets have been posted since, which means that his address (positively or negatively... doesn't matter) is being discussed all over the world on social media.

The four concerns raised in PMIK's speech were placed in an extremely intelligent way. People might say that he wasn't reading from his notes, but honestly speaking, it wasn't a speech without a thorough preparation. The words he used, the sentences he spoke, the emotions he showed and the warnings he delivered were so nicely connected, and the concerns were so logically lined up, that it seemed Pakistani mission contracted a psychologist in addition to many other experts to assist in formulating this masterpiece delivered by PMIK today.

He started with environmental concerns, which attracted many people who might not know about the sub-continent let alone Kashmir, proving himself as a concerned citizen of the planet Earth. After attracting environmentalists (and everyone now considers himself as one) and those who are badly affected by global warming, he tried to attract all the countries that face poverty due to corruption supported by the richer economies by creating tax heavens. This speech is a reminder to those countries which only blame the third world countries of plunder-friendly laws, but conveniently close their eyes on their actions to provide security to the wealth of looters and money launderers. His address will also impact the next session of FATF as PMIK has tried to capture moral high ground here. It was then a turn to attract Muslims. The way he presented Islam I can see that every Muslim who has listened to his speech will do some soul searching. Has anyone from the Muslim Ummah raised these points at a liberal forum with such a confidence before him? In his 5 minutes, he completely separated radicals (belonging to any religion) from the mainstream. It was one of the best, if not the best defense of Islam in current turbulent times.

Once he gathered the attention of the above, he started his onslaught against India on Kashmir. I am sure 90% of the concerned Indian population might have changed the tv channels and gone back to bollywood songs during his address.

============================================

OK, enough said about the address. 2019 has been an eventful year for all three parties i.e. Pakistan, India and Kashmiris. So far, Pakistan has responded effectively to the limited strikes, 5th generation war on media, and on the diplomatic fronts. For Indians, it was a good year indeed as they annexed Kashmir quite easily by striking or amending a couple of articles in their constitution. Realistically speaking, world will keep its eyes closed due to a over-a-billion-people's-market even after PMIK's desperate efforts to wake up the conscience of the world's leaders. In these desperate times, money can easily be preferred over justice, no doubt about it. We have been haplessly and helplessly watching the land being snatched from Palestinians and no one could do anything to stop Israelis.

Pakistan has played almost all the diplomatic cards as of today. By not escalating the situation in February this year and returning the Indian pilot, by engaging ourselves in the Afghan peace process, by offering our help in Middle East's crisis, by raining environmental concerns and by using different platforms to convey Kashmiri plight, we have shown the world that we are a peaceful nation which believes in coexistence. But is this enough? What if world again goes to sleep and we end up as a lone voice on Kashmir? Will India take any measures to help Kashmiris? What if India lifts curfew but Kashmiris are not able to put up a strong Taliban like resistance on their own? Will we continue to prove ourselves as a peaceful non-violent nation and helplessly see our brethren in Kashmir getting killed, sisters getting raped and children getting kidnapped?

This is now crystal clear that Pakistan will not support any proxy war, and will not initiate a limited or full scale war. My question to all Pakistani forum members.. What now? Please shed some light on what do you think about the next few months/ years.. and predict the next steps of India and Pakistan.

@Dubious @Mangus Ortus Novem @Shane @Signalian @ali_raza @Path-Finder @war&peace @Areesh @Farah Sohail @Zibago and others

 

[Shane]

I am simply amazed at reading some of the ignorant posts on this thread.

A reminder of the powerful words of the PM to the People of Kashmir; to hold their march towards the LOC and he promised the Kashmiris to wait for his return from UNGA where he will warn the world of the consequences of ignoring Kashmir in his upcoming UNGA speech.

The PM said that there will be a reaction when the curfew is lifted, there will be reaction from the Muslims across the world and there will be reaction from the Muslims of India as well. I am warning you...

If the PM does not deliver on his address in Muzaffarabad after his UNGA speech, then he has already committed political suicide which is highly unlikely but anything is possible in Pakistan.

Read between the lines, its so obvious and right in our faces...
All out war is not an option PM keeps warning...why??? Kashmiri armed struggle is the reaction PM is talking about in his speech and warning that if India attacks us in response to the Kashmiri or Muslim reaction to Indian atrocities then and unimaginable catastrophe may engulf not just the region but the world.

Now I would call the statement from the PM as just another ignored comment by the posters here simply because we Pakistanis are used to hearing things from one ear and letting it pass out from the other without letting whatever lies in between to process it or store or convert what we hear into anything meaningful because whatever we come up with out of thin air is more valuable to us than anything else.

I can recall how the Afghan Mujahideen were ridiculed throughout the 80s that the Afghans cannot defeat a Super Power like Soviets nor did they repent when US attacked Afghanistan and ridiculed the Afghan Taliban throughout Musharraf, PPP and PMLN rule that they cannot defeat the US.

Again, what chance does India stand when we have seen the Soviets and the US get defeated right next door to us??? I guess decades of watching sleazy Indian Bollywood Mediocrity Cinema and listening to cheap copycat Indian songs has reduced the mediocre brains into brain dead Zombies.

For information of people who are unaware about Pakistan asking concessions for Hafiz Saeed from UN, they should have done well to listen to Imran Khan's Speech in Muzaffarabad, but what to expect of people who failed for weeks to search twitter for Major Surinder poonia Naya Pakistan video.

Bottom line; Pakistan is ready, willing and able to repeat what it has done for decades in not too dissimilar scenario in this region. Go figure.

 

[PakSword]

All out war is not an option PM keeps warning...why??? Kashmiri armed struggle is the reaction PM is talking about in his speech and warning that if India attacks us in response to the Kashmiri or Muslim reaction to Indian atrocities then and unimaginable catastrophe may engulf not just the region but the world.

Many posters here suggest that Pakistan will have to help Kashmiris as they can't do anything when LoC is sealed and arms can't be transferred from our side, which means Pakistan will have to involve in one way or another.

 

[BringHarmony]

Folks, I had correctly predicted the Indian political annexation of Kashmir complete during my previous posts. Here is my current analysis of what has happened since then.

1. India seems to have raised the stakes from political take over of the region to complete and inhuman crushing of Kashmir folks or a part of them since then. Please note this is neither surprising nor stupid or 'nazi' or whatever adjective you want to use. It is a well thought out negotiation tactic.

2. Remember, India's major objective was to annex Kashmir. It was militarily controlling the part for quite some time now. Now it wanted a legitimacy to it. Well, the part of negotiation was to escalate situation first. It did it quite well. They essentially captured ENTIRE polity of the region. They crushed the populace under a curfew with human rights violations. Then the question came into UN.

3. Being in UN, the question of human rights violation is --actually not surprisingly-- NOT as important. There are organs of UN dealing with human rights violation but they are ornamental mostly. Think China suppressing Tibetians before they become economically successful. India of today is certainly ahead of that China of past, economically speaking at-least.

4. The bigger question UN deals with is that of possibility of war. Yes, thats the biggest question UN answers for. It is successor to League of the Nations, and its main purpose is to prevent a repeat of world war 2. So, only a war could have caused a REAL action by UN. Please note, this action may NOT necessarily be in Pakistan's favor.

5. This is the reason, Pakistan's government went with statement of going with NON military/ non-war route of negotiation and diplomacy.

6. India's foresaw all of the above and planned for it. Its tactics which I mentioned in point 1 were a part of that preparation. By raising (or lowering if you want to say it in that way) the bar to human rights violations, it FORCED Pakistan to raise the question of human rights violations more than question of one-sided change of status. Hence, while Kashmir question was raised, its context became more of human right violation than a conflict.

7. The legitimacy of Pakistan's right to intervene in Kashmir was argued to be that of protection of Kashmir folk's human rights and NOT that of Pakistan's claim and interest in the region. This was the final ingredient of India's brew to Kashmir political scenario. It essentially made whole world -- barring Pakistan, China, Turkey -- to tacitly admit that Kashmir is India's internal matter. Meanwhile human rights violation become a concern in UN but a very superficial one.

8. Next step of Indian government will be to normalize situation in Kashmir while keeping an iron grip. Complete removal of ALL powers from Kashmir's polity and to allow its mainland business houses to acquire properties and complete the integration of Kashmir in the India Mainland.

 

[khanmubashir]

He has said.. if India attacks us, it will be a nuclear war. But what if India doesn't attack? This is my question.

What he simply meant Pak won't back off from Kashmir

And will support kashmiri freedom struggle


And if India in desperation attacks us we will hit back harder as did on 27 Feb


And if needed fight to the end but won't concede defeat
which in a nuclear age is mutual assured destruction MAD

 

[BringHarmony]

He has said.. if India attacks us, it will be a nuclear war. But what if India doesn't attack? This is my question.

Its a legitimate question. Actually its a billion dollar question. Most likely India won't. Kashmir will be integrated into Mainland India by property grabbing and demographics change. It is hard to see how that can be prevented. Please note, I don't support or agree with this move nor celebrate it.

What he simply meant Pak won't back off from Kashmir

And will support kashmiri freedom struggle


And if India in desperation attacks us we will hit back harder as did on 27 Feb


And if needed fight to the end but won't concede defeat
which in a nuclear age is mutual assured destruction MAD

Actually, sadly, it does not matter anymore. World --for worse-- has taken a decision to let India swallow Kashmir. Without consent or approval of Kashmiris themselves. Pakistan for another 8-10 years cannot afford to support any covert activities in Kashmir. It will be squeezed in economic sanctions otherwise. It need to develop economic muscles.

 

[Shane]

I am simply amazed at reading some of the ignorant posts on this thread.

A reminder of the powerful words of the PM to the People of Kashmir; to hold their march towards the LOC and he promised the Kashmiris to wait for his return from UNGA where he will warn the world of the consequences of ignoring Kashmir in his upcoming UNGA speech.

The PM said that there will be a reaction when the curfew is lifted, there will be reaction from the Muslims across the world and there will be reaction from the Muslims of India as well. I am warning you...

If the PM does not deliver on his address in Muzaffarabad after his UNGA speech, then he has already committed political suicide which is highly unlikely but anything is possible in Pakistan.

Read between the lines, its so obvious and right in our faces...
All out war is not an option PM keeps warning...why??? Kashmiri armed struggle is the reaction PM is talking about in his speech and warning that if India attacks us in response to the Kashmiri or Muslim reaction to Indian atrocities then and unimaginable catastrophe may engulf not just the region but the world.

Now I would call the statement from the PM as just another ignored comment by the posters here simply because we Pakistanis are used to hearing things from one ear and letting it pass out from the other without letting whatever lies in between to process it or store or convert what we hear into anything meaningful because whatever we come up with out of thin air is more valuable to us than anything else.

I can recall how the Afghan Mujahideen were ridiculed throughout the 80s that the Afghans cannot defeat a Super Power like Soviets nor did they repent when US attacked Afghanistan and ridiculed the Afghan Taliban throughout Musharraf, PPP and PMLN rule that they cannot defeat the US.

Again, what chance does India stand when we have seen the Soviets and the US get defeated right next door to us??? I guess decades of watching sleazy Indian Bollywood Mediocrity Cinema and listening to cheap copycat Indian songs has reduced the mediocre brains into brain dead Zombies.

For information of people who are unaware about Pakistan asking concessions for Hafiz Saeed from UN, they should have done well to listen to Imran Khan's Speech in Muzaffarabad, but what to expect of people who failed for weeks to search twitter for Major Surinder poonia Naya Pakistan video.

Bottom line; Pakistan is ready, willing and able to repeat what it has done for decades in not too dissimilar scenario in this region. Go figure.

Many posters here suggest that Pakistan will have to help Kashmiris as they can't do anything when LoC is sealed and arms can't be transferred from our side, which means Pakistan will have to involve in one way or another.

Let's listen to excerpts of what the PM said in Muzaffarabad, I think this is as far as the PM could go in revealing his mind and that of the state of Pakistan:

 

[Crusher]

.............................................
Bottom line; Pakistan is ready, willing and able to repeat what it has done for decades in not too dissimilar scenario in this region. Go figure.

I hope your words come true because the time has come for Pakistan to teach Gangus the final lesson because since so-called "2004 cease fire" agreement in Kashmir the Gangus have been living in fantasy world where Pakistan has lost the ability to repeat 90s "action" in Kashmir with them this time even on "steroids".

 

[SIPRA]

Bottom line; Pakistan is ready, willing and able to repeat what it has done for decades in not too dissimilar scenario in this region. Go figure.

First an unauthorized + from me, as a token of appreciation, for your analyses are very illuminating.

The difference, from the past few decades, is that the political temperatures, both in India and Pakistan, are too high. In such scenarios, untoward and inadvertent things happen and then circumstances go out of control, which IK is indicating again and again.

A page from history, as an example. In early 1946, Cabinet Mission arrived from UK to India and, after having extensive discussions with various political stakeholders, presented their Plan, which was a confederation sort of a political arrangement/scheme, devised to retain the unity of India, after independence. Muslim League accepted the Plan. Congress, though on paper, accepted the Plan, but in fact rejected it, by virtually reinterpreting it, in their own intriguing way. A political stalemate ensued. Quaid e Azam called for celebrating a "Direct Action Day", on August 16, 1946, in whole of the India, where Muslim League was to hold processions and gatherings to inform people about the meaning and nature of the "Direct Action" and its implications. The day went very well, throughout the India, with peaceful demonstrations, except for Calcutta, where it took an unexpected ugly turn. Clashes ensued between Muslim League and Congress political workers and continued for a number of days, leaving thousands of them dead. This was an unprecedented incidence, in the whole history of India, and thereupon changed the course of events for all times to come.