Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

[GURU DUTT]

Do you ??

Did You ??? at-least we built some thing in LCA not Pained it

Do you Have??? What is result, Lost half in country Process

Do you Know operation SearchLight or i Post Pictures

Yes Signed Instrument of Surrender to just 3000 Indian soldiers

Inferiority to a Nation which has Size of GDP Equal to Single Indian State

PS: If you want argue Be Present Fact Rather Rants

 

[Not So Good]

Have you ever fought been to a fighter weapons school or its version of whatever India has? Have you ever been to an air-force base and had serious discussions with actual combat pilots in your entire life? Because by reading your post, its almost like a child high or drunk off of something, writing about dreams and Cinderella stories. I'd suggest you bring an actual IAF pilot on here and seek their advise on the topic. I am just trying to keep things factual. See you bold collection of nonesense above and help me understand:

1) Do the -16's from Jordan not fire AMRAAM's of AIM's? or aren't as maneuverable as -16's are known for?

2) Are you SURE that India wants to bring ALL of her SU-30's and top tier fighters like Mirages 2000's, etc (270+150 = 420 jets) in a war against Pakistan? What would you do with the remainder of India and other oceans and the Chinese?

3) Do you know out of 270 SU's and 1650 Mirages and Migs, how many are ACTUALLY combat ready at a given time?

4) Do you also think that a war will remain conventional if Pakistan detected over 300-400 planes inbound its territory??

5) Does JFT not fire bvr and wvr missiles? I'd give you a benefit that the JFT's may not be as agile as Mirage 2000 may be in a dog fight. But doesn't mean everything they'll fire will be missed

6) If over 100 SU-30's are lost (don't worry about what Pakistan will lose), and over 50-100 Migs and Mirages are lost in combat.......where do you think India will stand in terms of moral, its ability to keep a heavy fleet against the Chinese, "scaring the cows of smaller nations" and projecting air-power elsewhere, etc,etc??

I didn't like how rudely you addressed the gentleman above. So just to make you feel like that, now spare me the bull shiiit. India doesn't and will not want to go into a War with Pakistan. They know the fact about their expected losses in air battles. The last thing they want, is countries like Sri Lanka and Maldives to put in their face how they lost half the SU-30's against Pakistan (Whether they took out the entire PAF).

Half the "Fear" of a bigger power is to know they are superior "mentally". You take out that mental aspect, you lose that power status. See Israel for example, their pilots (similar to how the PAF's pilots operate), don't fear the three - four times sizable air-forces of their opponents. The results are that each time they went against them, they took them out in numbers (btw, Israel is now superior to Arabs in all aspects in air-warfare, in the 60's and 70's, they were all on par).

How about we stop "speculating" on this topic now? If tacking the PAF was that easy, TRUST ME, there would've been ongoing surgical strikes to make people in New Delhi happy.

Wooooo super power Israel envy Pakistani airfarce has arrived with murikan pilots

This thread is about PAF vs IAF , why are you bringing in Israel?

@waz

Really
First contact your murikan brother @Viper0011.

Do you ??

Did You ??? at-least we built some thing in LCA not Pained it

Do you Have??? What is result, Lost half in country Process

Do you Know operation SearchLight or i Post Pictures

Yes Signed Instrument of Surrender to just 3000 Indian soldiers

Inferiority to a Nation which has Size of GDP Equal to Single Indian State

PS: If you want argue Be Present Fact Rather Rants

That was indeed very costcost effective

 

[abdulbarijan]

Viper

Why do you always bring China into a indo pak War scenario. Get used it nobody is coming to fight india for you not china NOT Saudi not USA or any one else. ITS A MYTH .

And stop comparing PAF pilots to our Israelis allies who are a completely different race skill set and fighting machine to your people.

Umm -- Did I read that correctly -- where RACE is factor in how good of a pilot you are ... sure we all know the hilarious posts from Guru jii -- but is this a joke or are you really serious ???

I look at Pakistan I see a nation in turmoil, lost and confused run by a army since its birth and fighting to be heard globally in the shadow of giant neighbours. On this basis your nations complete lack of success industrially politically and technologically I know that your military and your AIRFORCE will be the same.

Your cant be world class like ISRAEL if you cant get the basics right in your country.

ITS ANOTHER MYTH

outdated equipment mostly
cash starved
having to come up with cheap solutions ie second hand used falcons or budget fighters

THIS IS NOT WORLD CLASS AIR POWER

Back to the topic

The Thread reads Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

Thus

Implying that PAF 18 Block 52 and their currently 30 year old falcons numbering 55 planes ( includes the falcons scrapped by Jordanian air force)

As being so far superior to IAF current fleet of 200+ su30mki ( soon to be 272 by 2018)

That

IAF in a panic is looking at 36 rafales

The thread starter has completely ignored that IAF is on vege of cancelling the rafale deal on grounds of both cost and additional nos of Super S30MKI and soon to be inducted PAK FA..

Simple maths

200 su30mki + 150 MIG29/MIRAGE2000 versis 76 F16 + 50 jft thunder = ONL

Just for your information:-

-The number of SU-30 MKI's in IAF is not 272 -- as you previously alleged -- and now your going 200+ with 272 in 2018 for face saving --- just admit your were adding 50 odd MKI's from your behind ... Just to refresh your memory --

Since you only have 18 BLOCK 52s ( I,m not going to count the junk from Jordan ) its your massive fleet of obsolete F7 & MIRAGESS that will have to chase the 270 SU30mki. .

Your little fleet of 40 Old block a./b THAT YOUR RECENTLY UPGRADED will stand next to no chance against over 150 UPGRADED MIRAGE2000-5 and MIG29K & MIG29SMT.

-The up gradation process of IAF's old fleet of M2K's and Mig-29's hasn't been completed.. infact the number you quote of 150 odd jets is incorrect as with IAF you only have 60 odd Mig-29's and 50 odd M2K's --
The only way you can count 150 odd jets is if you add the Indian navy Mig-29 K's -- the delivery for which -- unsurprisingly -- hasn't been completed yet ..

- Look at the package of the MLU upgrade PAF F-16's received -- These upgrades make them roughly equivalent to the blk-52's ..and all of the PAF F-16's have received these MLU upgrades ...


Bottom line -- Your comparing IAF of 2019/20 to PAF of 2015 -- which is frankly ridiculous as are your points -- which you never can seem to defend -- and as for your usual crap about the "junk" that PAF recieved from RJAF.. just read the following .. it might "hurt" but "you'll get used to it" ... if you know what I a mean ..

In February 2014, a senior Pakistani government official confirmed that the PAF was "close to concluding a deal" to purchase 12 F-16As and one F-16B version from the Royal Jordanian Air Force. The PAF confirmed that all 13 were originally Block 15 models that have also undergone MLU programmes. The first five were inducted into the PAF in April 2014 at Mushaf airbase in Sargodha.


http://www.janes.com/article/42699/tai-completes-pakistan-f-16-fleet-mid-life-upgrade

 

[Windjammer]

Windjammer Re Your Post



STOP TRYING TO COMPARE YOURSELF TO THE MIGHTY ISRAELI AIR FORCE.

PAF airforce is compatively ancient compared to 400 Strong Israely fighter fleet of F35 F15 F16sufi and Phalcon Awacs.

They have won wars in 6 days flat against 5 ARAB AIRFORCES.

They are a westernised highly civilised and educated society. These traits give them the edge over your muslim brother nations which like pakistan is relatively way behind in all aspects.

WITH YOUR MASSIVE FLEET OF F7 MIG21/ obselete mirage your are 400 FLEET STRONG but 80% obselete.

your severe lack of any sort of money means a war with india will bankrupt you in 7-10 days.

Seems you have a major comprehension issues or maybe you are just allergic to anything positive Pakistan.
Now pause, drink some cold water, pause, take a deep breath , focus and read my post again .... slowly,,,.. see if you can differentiate between the actions (What was said) and equipment (which wasn't the case) of the two air forces.
And if being westernised and civilised was only guarantee to winning wars, then the likes of the Soviets, Americans and it's allies must have encountered some highly intelligent alien forms in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
And since you have concluded my Muslim brother nations are somewhere at the bottom of the league, one wonders where do you Indians fit in the table, after all tens of thousand affluent Indians earn their rice bowl from these backward Muslim countries. !!!
As for the rest of your brain storm, it's just as well your views are restricted to your living room or perhaps i am ill informed about the cutting technology that IAF possesses in it's fleet of MiG-21s/27s and Jaguars.... damn, we are doomed.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Before Doing this Whole of you Minuscule
PAF will be Down to ground By Formidable Indian Air defenses

India Has ASAR Satellite Surveillance capability India can Detect your Fighters from moment they took off there Airbases

Leave chinese if you got friends we got it True thats other Part

So Are all Indian Mig-21 bison's armed Israelis jammers & Russian R-77 BVRs.

Even Heard Cope India Results

Unsurprisingly, when "copy paste" people like yourself have some original thoughts --- they look more or less like a genocide of logic and reasoning ... Just look at the quoted post .. and you'll get what I mean ...

While you preach about the Cope India's results do look at some of the ROE's (rules of engagement) of those exercises --

which by the way included numerical advantage for the Indian side where Indian formations had a 3:1 numerical advantage with severe limitations on the usage of BVR on the Americans ..

However if beating the Americans is the criteria, then how about you go and study Shahbaz78, you might be in for a shock or two... just a spoiler -- PAF achieved kills against the F-15 and F-4's with F-6 (Mig-19's) and Mirages at a time where the F-15 was the undisputed king of the skies i.e 1978/9 ...

 

[Last Samuri]

Windjammer

The Indians DID NOT start this ridiculous thread IT WAS YOUR OWN BRETHERAN ( A PAKISTANI)

The title says it Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

Any Pakistani I don't care who Windjammer Abdul or Viper explain

1. Which one of the new F16s is he referring too BLOCK 52 or the second hand stuff from Jordan
2. In which way is the F16 so superior to the MKI that india is running to rafale.

AT LEAST QUALIFY WHAT YOU PEOPLE WRITE

 

[Windjammer]

Windjammer

The Indians DID NOT start this ridiculous thread IT WAS YOUR OWN BRETHERAN ( A PAKISTANI)

The title says it Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

Any Pakistani I don't care who Windjammer Abdul or Viper explain

1. Which one of the new F16s is he referring too BLOCK 52 or the second hand stuff from Jordan
2. In which way is the F16 so superior to the MKI that india is running to rafale.

AT LEAST QUALIFY WHAT YOU PEOPLE WRITE

You are trying hard but as i said you clearly lack the substance to qualify for any debate.
Least that you are so incompetent to comprehend that whatever appears in the article is not written by any Pakistani but one of your own kind, it's in your people's nature to box above your weight and ridicule yourself.
Next time you want to make any comments, first try to activate a brain cell or two.

Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's
Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

By Arming India Correspondent

Arming India

 

[abdulbarijan]

Windjammer

The Indians DID NOT start this ridiculous thread IT WAS YOUR OWN BRETHERAN ( A PAKISTANI)

The title says it Pakistan's New F-16s Can Beat India's Su-30s; Rafales Are The Counter

Any Pakistani I don't care who Windjammer Abdul or Viper explain

1. Which one of the new F16s is he referring too BLOCK 52 or the second hand stuff from Jordan
2. In which way is the F16 so superior to the MKI that india is running to rafale.

AT LEAST QUALIFY WHAT YOU PEOPLE WRITE

A- This article wasn't written by any Pakistani -- it was infact quoted from "arming India" -- and a Pakistani forum is discussing it, because it is a forum and is build for that very purpose i.e Discussing relevant stuff ...

B- From a person who says "at least qualify what you write" how about you atleast respond to ANY criticism that any of the posters who responded to you gave -- Infact all we've seen from you is same old "IAF has XYZ-- and PAF has second hand junk from RJAF" -- to the point of BS that you at one point were actually quoting the numerical and technological plane which IAF "EXPECTS" to reach by 2019/20.. (i.e 272 MKI's -- fully upgraded Mig-29's/M2K's additional deliveries of Mig-29 for IN etc.) and lets just say IAF always achieves what it expects -- the MMRCA deal, LCA etc. are all shining examples of that undoubted fact ...

C. As far as PAF F-16's are concerned --- PAF operates the following:-

-18 Block 52's
-45 odd MLU F-16's ( Upgraded to Blk 50/52 level Avionics/weapons wise atleast along with structural upgrades )
-13 F-16's from RJAF ( which Ive already given a Janes source which says that they have received MLU upgrades although details are not available )

Bottom line -- Out of the 76 of PAF's total fleet of F-16's -- 63 just happen to be either or at par with BLK-52's via upgrades ... so do take a second look at your claims of "junk the PAF has got" --

Lastly, no one from the Pakistani side ever claimed F-16 was "superior" to MKI -- we simply say that the MKI is in for it, if it goes up against a PAF F-16 because of the many reasons previously stated in this thread ...

 

[Henry ME 95]

Pakistan havent been able to Focus on buying new combat ACs doesnt mean they have Downgraded the standards of Recruitment or have relaxed their Criteria for selecting Pilots for their most Vital Combat AC Squadrons. India in 1990s just Started their advancement and modernizations while Pakistan had already made lot of progress by 1980s during Cold War and that to was out of Necessity instead of Voluntarily because they were required to be extraordinarily Vigilant especially when Soviet Invaded Afghanistan. Further More 1990s may have been Lost Decade riddled with Sanctions and bad economy but current decade but since 2000s Pakistan is catching up quite fast as well.
Another thing you might have not aware of is India has quite high Crash Rates as well for some reason so their Tech might be strong but Reliability is still an issue that they Addressing right now.

First concerning India's high crash rate.Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate | Russia & India Report
Other then that I have no other points to address. The PAF isn't bad but they do need to replace their J-7, F1 Mirage and other assorted older fleets.
In particular Pakistan should considering procuring some J-10s to counter India's SU-30s and future rafales.
They will get it done. But they need to do that before the next war.

 

[Gazi]

First concerning India's high crash rate.Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate | Russia & India Report
Other then that I have no other points to address. The PAF isn't bad but they do need to replace their J-7, F1 Mirage and other assorted older fleets.
In particular Pakistan should considering procuring some J-10s to counter India's SU-30s and future rafales.
They will get it done. But they need to do that before the next war.

Pakistan may have some issues regarding Tech as Pakistan is not well versed with BVR system but in terms of Dog Fight PAF is second to none. PAF have changed their strategies a lot between these period especially during Last decade when PAF has started looking at other options then western ones as western Options came with lots of strings attached. Today Tech wise IAF is superior to PAF no doubt but PAF is catching up as they have found a solution to one of Major problem 3rd World Countries are facing which is COST and thanks to Joint Ventures PAF has done lots of work to control this.

 

[FULL_METAL]

Talking is so easy.
Now since we are at imagining scenarious, can you imagine and enlighten for all of us what havoc can those 100 SU MKI's can cause in pakistan before falling on ground. Add to that 50-100 migs as you claim, before falling on ground. And then figure out the moral of pakistan as a nation.

LoL u asking a Pakistani to figure something out! Heck they cudn't even figure out what their Quaid actually wanted

Ontopic: Bro u gotta understand this mindset of Pakistanis 1 muslims=10 hindus, 1su30 pilot=10F16=8jf17 pilots
u just can't debate with them, its better to just lough and move on.

Pakistan may have some issues regarding Tech as Pakistan is not well versed with BVR system but in terms of Dog Fight PAF is second to none. PAF have changed their strategies a lot between these period especially during Last decade when PAF has started looking at other options then western ones as western Options came with lots of strings attached. Today Tech wise IAF is superior to PAF no doubt but PAF is catching up as they have found a solution to one of Major problem 3rd World Countries are facing which is COST and thanks to Joint Ventures PAF has done lots of work to control this.

Yes thank u, that is exactly the case.

 

[Mrc]

Its being reported that f 16 even locked f 35 recently in dog fight ... its a hell of a fighter with a hell of a combat record...

How many times su 30 has scored in an air combat??

 

[ganesh623]

Its being reported that f 16 even locked f 35 recently in dog fight ... its a hell of a fighter with a hell of a combat record...

How many times su 30 has scored in an air combat??

Yupp you are right about it.
F-16 s a alien technology. Heck with f-22, f-35, pakfa, none of them has answer for f-16. Let aside su 30, its not even in the league.

 

[tarrar]

LCA having superior capability than JF17, what a joke. JF17 is operational & where as on the other hand LCA are still sleeping on the ground. I would call this article a piece of sh!t as Indians wants to create panic with in their own country.

 

[IncredibleIndia]

LCA is still sleeping because IAF is not giving clearence...IAF choose aircrafts that matches its status.....otherwise LCA can also fly even carrying ammunations .....the fact is we dont want to take any body's help to make that aircraft.....just like Pak took chinas help to make jf17....if we can reach to moon mars by our own mind so we can definately make an world class aircraft as well..you cant see the capabilities of LCA as you tube is ban in pak....honestly speaking jf17 is nothing in front of lca even right now...search it on google ..