PAKISTAN’S MIRAGES: SPECIALISTS ENDURING OUT OF NECESSITY

[CriticalThought]

Sorry friend, I am not a troll. I served with distintion in our forces here and lead multiple complex ECM/EW/radio comms projects with various top defence firms with 2 patents in the field of crytography. I am stating wearing a uniform gives you no right to be above others in terms of evaluating or developing technologies; you are just a user. That is the difference which you are not getting. These are the same people who failed to capitalise on Cheetah when it was in front of them but choose to go with ROSE programs. What else can I say, I led the team which built the hoppers that are on your Mirages.

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The critical error you are making is to assume that the same people are in charge today who made decisions in the 1990s. Here is how you should look at the Thunder. It is a program at the end of a sequence: J-20 -> J-10 -> Thunder. Technology from J-20 WILL keep trickling down to the Thunder. This is the future. And a very bright future indeed, Alhamdulillah.

Now, if the Cheetah design team had moved on to designing systems for the F-35, I might have been wistful, look back longingly, and say "I wish...".

As things stand, we are benefiting from the Turkish inputs to F-35 and the Chinese advancements on J-20. Exciting times indeed!!!!!! Alhamdulillah. Masha Allah.

 

[denel]

The critical error you are making is to assume that the same people are in charge today who made decisions in the 1990s. Here is how you should look at the Thunder. It is a program at the end of a sequence: J-20 -> J-10 -> Thunder. Technology from J-20 WILL keep trickling down to the Thunder. This is the future. And a very bright future indeed, Alhamdulillah.

Now, if the Cheetah design team had moved on to designing systems for the F-35, I might have been wistful, look back longingly, and say "I wish...".

As things stand, we are benefiting from the Turkish inputs to F-35 and the Chinese advancements on J-20. Exciting times indeed!!!!!! Alhamdulillah. Masha Allah.

No it is not a critical error, it is critical lense from what I am seeing things. You need a complete divorce between R&D+Manufacturing/Engineering from PAF/Army/Navy. Until this does not happen, nothing will change.

 

[CriticalThought]

No it is not a critical error, it is critical lense from what I am seeing things. You need a complete divorce between R&D+Manufacturing/Engineering from PAF/Army/Navy. Until this does not happen, nothing will change.

The reality of every nation is different. You can't take a cookie-cutter approach to program management.

 

[denel]

The reality of every nation is different. You can't take a cookie-cutter approach to program management.

Project management is not cookie cutter yes, you need right resources and mindset to start with. that has been missing.

 

[punit]

Onc russian have you on the hook, you are tied to them for parts; reliability is bad overall. Look at IAF's flankers how many remain combat ready?

Its not that bad. Missions Combat avaibility of USAF F16 is 65-70 % which is same as that of SU 30 MKI..

 

[CriticalThought]

Project management is not cookie cutter yes, you need right resources and mindset to start with. that has been missing.

Everything can always be made better. Agreed. But I am happy with what we have so far. Alhamdulillah.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sorry friend, I am not a troll. I served with distinction in our forces here and lead multiple complex ECM/EW/radio comms projects with various top defence firms with 2 patents in the field of crytography. I am stating wearing a uniform gives you no right to be above others in terms of evaluating or developing technologies; you are just a user. That is the difference which you are not getting. These are the same people who failed to capitalise on Cheetah when it was in front of them but choose to go with ROSE programs. What else can I say, I led the team which built the hoppers that are on your Mirages.

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What facts are there that Thunder will not "let go"? It has no hms/high offbore capability; I am confident, Mig-21 bison upgrades from IAF will more than likely take it down.

We need facts not wild conjecture. To this point, we have not even seen Thunders take on F-7PG either.

Hi,

Damnnnn---see how fast the things change with the right title---. Great post---.

 

[MastanKhan]

And I hope you learn to speak properly too Mastan.

Cheers !!!

Hi,

Do you think I really enjoy writing in that manner to the young bucks----

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

Do you think I really enjoy writing in that manner to the young bucks----

No sir.

I apologise if I offended you.

 

[MastanKhan]

No sir.

I apologise if I offended you.

Hi,

I never get offended as long as you and I are talking---. I never get offended at the future of a nation---.

I get upset at times for not having the ability to show what I see and understand---.

 

[alee92nawaz]

A reality check for our bhakts. I don't know how we plan to use 70 odd F-solah against 270+ su 30s + mirages + rafales +migs.
And how do we plant to bomb deep inside enemy territory.? That said i don't think there will be an all out war or even a short war between india and pakistan. So let's not waste any major resources here.

@denel
I used to ask my young colleagues here---switch the position---.

Just imagine---that the Paf has the SU30's---Mirage 2k's Jaguarss and Mig29's and the enemy has old F16's and some JF17's----.

I asked them to now tell me---how much are you going to laugh at the enemy when he says his JF17's are superior---.

That is a basic car sales 101 training---put yourself in customers shoes and observe how he looks at you---.

 

[alee92nawaz]

Onc russian have you on the hook, you are tied to them for parts; reliability is bad overall. Look at IAF's flankers how many remain combat ready?

Then same thing why would russia risk such big markets and future big orders ?

 

[alee92nawaz]

Onc russian have you on the hook, you are tied to them for parts; reliability is bad overall. Look at IAF's flankers how many remain combat ready?

Then same thing why would russia risk such big markets and future big orders ?

 

[alee92nawaz]

How many working p3 orions PN has?

Sorry Mr. MK, P3 Orion will work just fine, you just have to employ it along TASMO (Tactical Air Support Maritime Operations) NATO regulations. Its just part of a big team of Aircraft with several jobs, together they will solve all the needs the Navy has.
You are looking to the PAF as it will work by itself, just like the Army in Kargil. Thats roung.

There is a Navy Task Group (mabe 3-4 FFGs+1-2 Subs+1 Supply Ship), abouve it n the sky, its a TASMO Group, operating from Mainland/Islands/Aircraft Carriers/Ships Organic Aircraft.
It is a mix of:
-MPA aircraft performing ASW & long range reconaissance;
-Fighters performing CAP;
-Fighters

performing ​

Antiship role;
-ELINT aircraft for surveillance;
-SAR Helicopters;
-AEW

aircraft for control;
-Air Tankers for augmenting the fleet permanence;​

You have all that in Pakistan, just have to now to use it.
I have been in Azores Islands for years, I was Army, the Portuguese Navy had included a Landing Force in the Navy Task Groups abord FFGs and I have seen it works!
Here in NATO we have learned a lot from Falklands experience in 1982 from both sides.

Did you Know that Pakistan P3 were upgraded here in Portugal by OGMA?
Imagine what can happen to a Navy Task Group if a P3 loaded with 8 Harpoon gets within 100km range at low altitude, with a Submarine near for final guidance and final torpedo trust! What ship will shute dawn 8 Harpoons, What?? Indian Carrier Group??

LOO FLYING (Try to detect and intercept it)

Take a look of a Portuguese P3 performing on a US Navy Vessel


Thanks​

 

[alee92nawaz]

Of course, only a car salesman would laugh. Without looking at the actual performance, without considering that Thunder has now held its own against Chinese J-11, Arab F-15s, EFTs, and all types of F-16s, obviously an idiotic enemy will only laugh. He who laughs last...

How can you know or say that jf17 has performed well against these jets? Any source ?