Pakistan's love for Saudi Arabia '95% favourable': Pew poll

[Sugarcane]

Am I? Bashing people?

I apologize for my wordings (After all english is not my mother tongue) - "You" in my post was not you as person but part of society on other extreme.

Look what it did.. it got you thinking. Two posts ago you were hesitant on the aspect of bashing the common mans decisions and its outcomes.. and look.. now you are following the same thought process of looking into the whys of the common man's decision...that worked out well in my view.

My post was not in approval of common man but to point out the hypocrisy which exists in our society - On one hand we bash common people for their choice on other hand we allude them for their choice of accepting a decision of making new country. On very same forum - i was labeled as worst than enemies of Pakistan, justification was that even they don't talk in this way.

Do you agree that the common man wishes to talk and hug the terrorists? After all, it is their elected who are taking these steps...is then by process the common man not accountable for his decision? Are all supporters of PPP not accountable for their governments actions? Some would argue that with elections still rigged this is not the representation of the common man or you or me; but then is it not essentially our own fault that we do not ask for our rights? Hence, are we not as common men responsible for our own fates to be led like sheep to the wolves? analogically.. are we not as common men responsible for tolerating leadership and elements in society that allow extremism to take root, allow both Saudi Arabia and Iran to finance a proxy war on our soil resulting in the death of Pakistanis for their games.. and still hold them favourably? Then, knowing these acts are occurring.. should I still identify myself with the common man who considers both of these nations innocent? Shall I not critique my fellow common man?

When the first martial was imposed on this country, justification was that democracy is unsuitable for a country with 15% literacy rate - Now figure out that on basis of very same democracy they got Pakistan. Probably the elite knew that it was bluff. Anyway - IMHO, In democratic system, people vote for manifesto of the party and wining party have mandate to implement that agenda. But this never happened in Pakistan or in united provinces (per-partition). Even today PTI was able to secure good position was not purely because of their manifesto but because of gross loot of PPP & friendly opposition tag of PMLN - you can disagree on this but that's reality. So, I don't think accusing common men is right when you have given them flawed system, they never was part of decision/policy making and was always fooled by elite.

And the reason I keep equating the common man with goats is simple.. Do you know that many Prophets were shepherds?
Could you get the reason for that? Its because goats have the same tendency.. to go in the opposite direction to where you push them, to suddenly break lines and then take others. So if they could have the patience to do that well, they could do the same to men.. in a balance of prodding, pushing , beating and calling.. you get them all to follow. These common men were swayed by people who acted as change agents.. the phenomenon of Prophets is different as it is both spiritual and divine and hence not bound by earthly laws, but the phenomenon of the Pakistan movement is based on these men using the balance of prodding, pushing and calling to enact the change process.All they needed was the 50.01% to get their change moving.. and most simply ended up following and reduced their resistance to change. And this play with the agency of change is what all me and Hyperion are doing as such.. willingly or unwillingly.

You have given nice example but your understanding is wrong - being Paindoo, I can tell you that goats go to opposite direction only if you use excessive force, you have to show them path and they will keep following, some try to go here and there and only those need to be prodded, pushed or beating because if you don't do that than others will follow. If you start pushing and beating all of them because few are going into wrong direction than you will not be able to control them and loose all of them. That's why no Prophet used the method of prodding, pushing or beating --- they guided people to right path, previous crimes/mistakes were forgiven and punishments were given to only to those who did misdeeds again to prevent others following them.

Now, to the point of view that we are putting across is.. where does one draw the line between a favourable view of Saudi Arabia..and a worshipping role to them. Hence, is the favourable view based on the point you put across as for "Islamic" purposes or is it truly based on equal job opportunities, equality in workforce and general "helpful" view of Saudis in Pakistani society.
The same goes for many people who heap praises on western societies in Pakistan.. are these views based on just their performance as a society or more rooted in psychological aspects of identity and belonging.

The problem with our society is that our liberal class go to extreme while putting their views and i don't see any difference between them and nut case mullah. Same is here, some who are in favor go to extreme that they don't see any problem in KSA and other go to extreme that they call everybody who have favorable view as worshiper of them.

If you go and personally meet the people and ask their views than you will know that their are many reasons for this favorable of view

1) Their Prophet was Arab and their holy places are in Arabia -- You can guess the level of emotional attachments for this point is that they can can even give their lives and you know when you are in Love of something you ignore all other things - that's universal human psychology.

2) You must realize that they haven't heard about wrong deeds of Arabs (except Kufar of early Islamic era) as your text books portray all Arabs & Muslim invaders as angels, they are indoctrinated in a way that they think they were either part of incoming armies or was being oppressed by Hindus (as they were Muslims at that time) - Keep in mind these books & history was written by educated people.
3) They get frequent dose that Arabs are supporting Pakistan with Oil & Dirhams, They funded nuclear program --- Now you want them become namak haram all of sudden lol
4) Mullahs portray their system as 100% Islamic and to support that they say, see it's almost crime free --- And you can't deny that whatever the system is KSA is heaven when you compare it with Pakistan from crime POV

So, Paray tell me why they shouldn't have favorable view or idealize KSA? On top of that when they see people from extreme left wing abusing/bashing their believes they go further right and people like me who are in between they are confused where to go, they don't want to abandon their religion and become westerner neither they want to become Taliban and i am afraid in long run it will create more chaos as these people will be forced to choose one side and whatever extreme they will go will lead to destruction. You are doing right thing sir but you are doing it wrong.

Frankly --- anyone who think that this favorable views is something to do with working condition and living standard in KSA needs to go out of their circle and try to understand 95% of Pakistan.

 

[xyxmt]

Not me but us. @al-Hasani can dig out your bigotry so easily, there is no point for attempting to hide the best of you

no wonder who whole world laughs at you, you have your own idea in your small brain and dont do too much thinking

 

[ghilzai]

We have as much love for saudia as Judas had for Jesus.

Only foolish and insecure Pakistanis have love for Saudi, those who have great history and culture looks down on these as mere vermin.

 

[Panther 57]

We have as much love for saudia as Judas had for Jesus.

Only foolish and insecure Pakistanis have love for Saudi, those who have great history and culture looks down on these as mere vermin.

My dear problem with us is that we cannot differentiate between holy cities and KSA.

 

[Meengla]

The pseudo-intellectual Pakistani libs are going of their way once again to speak for the general population.

The truth is that the majority of our population agrees more with the Taliban than they do with you, Ganja, or Musharraf.

You are probably wrong with this Taliban-love claim. When the Lal Masjid terrorists had taken over that mosque a vast majority of Pakistanis wanted Musharraf to expel the terrorists even if it required using force. The Talibans and other PSUEDO-JIHADIS were siding with the Lal Masjid terrorists.

Pakistan is even now far free-er than Saudi Arabia and even Iran when it comes to the social freedoms. Poverty and the threat of the fundos, combined with a weakened State security situation may have cowered people some but the fundos are still a tiny minority; they once again got trounced in the latest elections.

Anyway, I don't think a love for KSA comes at the expense of Pakistani statehood. As I said above, KSA has been a financial backer and is the location of Islam's two holiest sites--that, and Pakistanis general love for anything Islamic has a lot to do with the finding of this survey. In the same vein, as someone already pointed out, Pakistanis love a communist China too.

Cultural identity, economic interests, threat perceptions--all are in the mix in Pakistan as well as in rest of the world to shape up people's opinion of other countries.

PS. I'd rather live in Pakistan than in Saudi Arabia or Iran because of social freedoms.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Who whole world? What the hell doesn that suppose to mean? ..

no wonder who whole world laughs at you, you have your own idea in your small brain and dont do too much thinking

That isn't what your mother said The whole world is mad at us!

 

[RazPaK]

You are probably wrong with this Taliban-love claim. When the Lal Masjid terrorists had taken over that mosque a vast majority of Pakistanis wanted Musharraf to expel the terrorists even if it required using force. The Talibans and other PSUEDO-JIHADIS were siding with the Lal Masjid terrorists.

Pakistan is even now far free-er than Saudi Arabia and even Iran when it comes to the social freedoms. Poverty and the threat of the fundos, combined with a weakened State security situation may have cowered people some but the fundos are still a tiny minority; they once again got trounced in the latest elections.

Anyway, I don't think a love for KSA comes at the expense of Pakistani statehood. As I said above, KSA has been a financial backer and is the location of Islam's two holiest sites--that, and Pakistanis general love for anything Islamic has a lot to do with the finding of this survey. In the same vein, as someone already pointed out, Pakistanis love a communist China too.

Cultural identity, economic interests, threat perceptions--all are in the mix in Pakistan as well as in rest of the world to shape up people's opinion of other countries.

PS. I'd rather live in Pakistan than in Saudi Arabia or Iran because of social freedoms.

I am not wrong at all.

 

[Meengla]

I am not wrong at all.

I think you need to revisit your idea that MOST Pakistanis love the Talibans. You may not like the 'liberals' of Pakistan (I am a self-professed one) and it maybe that most Pakistanis are conservatives and may indeed love KSA 95% but that does not translate into loving a ruthless barbarian force like the Talibans who may well be foreign-funded, who have caused untold misery in Pakistan, and who openly reject the Constitution of Pakistan. In fact, the TTP and their ilks are getting so marginalized that even Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan are beginning to sound against them...

Let's not derail the topic if we can help it.

 

[RazPaK]

I think you need to revisit your idea that MOST Pakistanis love the Talibans. You may not like the 'liberals' of Pakistan (I am a self-professed one) and it maybe that most Pakistanis are conservatives and may indeed love KSA 95% but that does not translate into loving a ruthless barbarian force like the Talibans who may well be foreign-funded, who have caused untold misery in Pakistan, and who openly reject the Constitution of Pakistan. In fact, the TTP and their ilks are getting so marginalized that even Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan are beginning to sound against them...

Let's not derail the topic if we can help it.

Even our armed forces have a certain demographic that sympathize with the taliban. I don't like libz, but don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Armstrong]

PS. I'd rather live in Pakistan than in Saudi Arabia or Iran because of social freedoms.

And yet you didn't even treat Bhabi with a visit to the Food Street & other such places in Lahore where the best food in the world is served !

 

[ghilzai]

My dear problem with us is that we cannot differentiate between holy cities and KSA.

Just because an Arab is a Muslim doesn't make him my brother, just because holy sites are in Saudia doesn't make the place any better as religion is in a mans heart.

Arabs have always been and always will be the cursed people just like their cousins.

 

[xyxmt]

Who whole world? What the hell doesn that suppose to mean? ..



That isn't what your mother said The whole world is mad at us!

my mother is not an arab, and Pakistani man dont do that shameful act from behind like arabs
If you want to continue mother jokes, let the mods know

 

[Amolthebest]

Sir - Your views revolve around your families view - Pakistani are on top who see Iran as favorable and on other hand they have favorable views about Sadaam as well LOL - So, it's not just about that people are working there and earning good money compared to Pakistan. Pakistani also have favorable views about Bangladesh (despite they hate us) and a mango Pakistani don't have favorable views about west - so it's not about living standards as well. In short Pakistan is complicated society who have favorable views about anything being Islamic other than Pakistan.

Indian Muslims too? Dont think so

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

my mother is not an arab, and Pakistani man dont do that shameful act from behind like arabs
If you want to continue mother jokes, let the mods know

This is an expression which is far from insult. When someone uses it means that " It isn't what your mom told or taught you "

Unlike you, we don't give people a poor attitude

We have as much love for saudia as Judas had for Jesus.

Only foolish and insecure Pakistanis have love for Saudi, those who have great history and culture looks down on these as mere vermin.

You belong to the %5 percent who hate us who gives a damn?

 

[Tameem]

This is an expression which is far from insult. When someone uses it means that " It isn't what your mom told or taught you "

Unlike you, we don't give people a poor attitude



You belong to the %5 percent who hate us who gives a damn?

In broader prospects, No one really hates Saudi Arabia dear......the actual ratio was 95 to Zero, the people you pointing out here are just on finger tips.