Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban: UK University

[xenia]

So we're to judge the crdeibility of this report based off of what your teacher's cousin said?



You must have a gift, you can spot 'double agents' just by looking at them. Sorry the rest of us aren't as fortunate, we wouldn't be able to 'see' anything in KPK.

the point was that they wont write anything that displeases their masters..n everyone knows this!
n for double agents..u dont need extra eyes to see them..have a stay n u ll find first hand info!!n ll buy u glasses if still they are invisibleno offence!

 

[r3alist]

a person with a brain and no agenda would ignore where the report is coming from

would look at the methodology or the report

would look at the sources

would look at the foot notes

would double check and verify their authenticity

would question the research methods

would examine the sources and their credability

and would THEN form an opinion



so why cant indians do this?

 

[notsuperstitious]

a person with a brain and no agenda would ignore where the report is coming from

would look at the methodology or the report

would look at the sources

would look at the foot notes

would double check and verify their authenticity

would question the research methods

would examine the sources and their credability

and would THEN form an opinion



so why cant indians do this?

Thats a good question realist.

There are so many Pakistanis here who think 26-11 was done by India and Kasab is (still) not a Pakistani - quite senior mambers mind you.

Not ONE member here from Pakistan has agreed with me that the State of Pakistan was not sincere in banning LET when they allowed the same people to run an organisation from the same muridke compound under only a different name plate. Not ONE.

I know its off topic for the original topic, but there in lies your answer of why Indians want to believe this report.

 

[Dr.Evil]

This isn't the first time that people have said ISI supports Taliban and Terrorists and It wont be the last time.

ISI has this dubious distinction of working with terrorists with or without the approval of the govt. in power.

Why are people being shocked about the allegations ?

 

[SMC]

If one watches the interview video in the first post, it's clear that the proof for this report is as strong as what many members here claim to be proof of Indian terrorism in Pakistan - insider ISI and army information.

 

[notsuperstitious]

If one watches the interview video in the first post, it's clear that the proof for this report is as strong as what many members here claim to be proof of Indian terrorism in Pakistan - insider ISI and army information.

Even if so SMC, you have stuck to your guns on that one haven't you? Let others too then.

 

[SMC]

Even if so SMC, you have stuck to your guns on that one haven't you? Let others too then.

If that's your way of saying that I believe what I want to believe then please don't ridicule us when we accuse India of terrorism. But since Indians always ask for proof then well we have to have the same standard applied.

 

[notsuperstitious]

If that's your way of saying that I believe what I want to believe then please don't ridicule us when we accuse India of terrorism. But since Indians always ask for proof then well we have to have the same standard applied.

Not at all, we'll ask for proof just the same way Pakistanis have asked for proof in this case, read the thread. Buy its amusing that you mention your unnamed contacts in intelligence agencies to express your opinions on India's involvement but when this (NON INDIAN) report does the same you don't seem to like it.

I'm saying we all do it, when its unsubstantiated, its frustrating. But read my reply to realist, even when its substantiated, people look at things from a nationalistic view and disregard facts, and Pakistanis are no different.

I think there's a lesson for all of us here, and not just Indians as being made out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not at all, we'll ask for proof just the same way Pakistanis have asked for proof in this case, read the thread. Buy its amusing that you mention your unnamed contacts in intelligence agencies to express your opinions on India's involvement but when this (NON INDIAN) report does the same you don't seem to like it.

I'm saying we all do it, when its unsubstantiated, its frustrating. But read my reply to realist, even when its substantiated, people look at things from a nationalistic view and disregard facts, and Pakistanis are no different.

I think there's a lesson for all of us here, and not just Indians as being made out.

Perhaps, but remember that allegations of Indian support for terrorists in Balochistan and FATA rose primarily after the Mumbai attacks, and after India and Indians had engaged in a huge spate of unsubstantiated allegations against Pakistani institutions.

At that time many Indians refused to listen, on this forum (and you can go back and read the threads from right after the Mumbai attacks) to Pakistanis arguing that there was nothing implicating Pakistani institutions and that the GoI, Indian media and others needed to stop scapegoating Pakistan.

The allegations of Indian involvement primarily rose in response to that attitude from Indians, and as terrorist attacks in Pakistan spiked after the Mumbai attacks - I am pointing this out to clarify that it was not Pakistanis that initiated this. It started with India after the Mumbai attacks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This isn't the first time that people have said ISI supports Taliban and Terrorists and It wont be the last time.

No arguments that the ISI supported the Taliban in the past, as did the CIA, but so far no one has been able to substantiate allegations of either current support for the Taliban, or support for terrorism at any point in time by the ISI.

ISI has this dubious distinction of working with terrorists with or without the approval of the govt. in power.

The ISI has never worked with terrorists, and I would appreciate it if you refrain from flaming, because we can change every reference on this forum to the Indian Military as a 'terrorist Military' as well, and that will really not go anywhere.

So as I pointed out to Solomon2 a few days ago, unless you have credible evidence of the ISI supporting terrorists, references to 'terrorism' will be considered slander and flaming. The objective is to have discussions, not hurl abuses at the other side.

Why are people being shocked about the allegations ?

Because they remain unsubstantiated, even in this instance, and the extent to which this particular paper lies, distorts and publishes unsubstantiated rubbish (the author admits in the Al Jazeera video that the 'commanders' he interviewed were only offering their 'opinion', and did not offer any evidence to support it), and even tries to implicate the President of Pakistan in a fantastic and cockamamie story is indeed shocking.

Tech Lahore was absolutely correct when he accused Friedman of an 'agenda of vilification'. The thing is though that it isn't just Friedman pushing this 'agenda of vilification of Pakistan', but a whole coterie of pseudo-intellectuals and analysts who have made a cottage industry out of playing to the prejudices and biases of Western audiences by building up this bogeyman of the ISI, and then continuously vilifying it with ever more fantastic and unsubstantiated claims, that gets them their '15 minutes of fame' and a spot on the talk shows on TV as an 'expert' trying to explain why once again the West's failures in Afghanistan (or XYZ place) are someone elses fault.

Remember all those comments Indians like to make about 'Pakistanis being in denial, and blaming everyone else'? Right here, and in the rest of the balderdash out of the 'Think Tanks', analysts and governments in the West and India, you have pretty much the exact same denial and scapegoating of someone else for ones own failures.

To paraphrase Fateh's comments above, 'there is a lesson here for everyone, not just Pakistanis, when it comes to denial and blaming everyone else for your problems'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This isn't the first time something of this sort has been published. Furthermore a number of Pakistanis were also arrested in the states recently. To me it seems like Pakistan has lost whatever credibility it had left. What impact do you guys think this article/report will have?

I believe the validity of the article has been questioned pretty effectively, and unless the GoUS, US Military and Intelligence Community take this report seriously (unlikely given that it has preposterous stories like the one about Zardari), I doubt much will change at a government level.

US legislators might ask questions related to this of the GoUS, Military and Intelligence, and the answers, if the Pak-US relationship continues on the path it is currently, will likely be the same as before - 'no institutional support, but perhaps some elements within the institutions continue to support'.

So there will likely be no change in the relationship at a Government-Military-Intelligence level, unless this distorted propaganda was a move initiated by the US to begin with.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Afghan Taliban, whose 'commanders' this pompous arse reportedly interviewed, have come out with their own views on his 'report':

Mushtaq Yusufzai adds from Peshawar: The Afghan Taliban on Sunday rejected the report of the London School of Economics. “The report is a pack of lies aimed at damaging our image among the Muslims supporting mujahideen all over the world,” said Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid.

He called ‘The News’ from an undisclosed location to record the Taliban reaction to the LSE report. He said it was not the first time the Western powers and organisations had associated Taliban with the ISI.

Zabihullah Mujahid opined that the Western powers led by the US were ready to defame Taliban whenever they accelerate attacks and inflict losses on the occupation forces in Afghanistan.

The report even alleged that ISI officials attend meetings of the Taliban’s supreme council and extend them financial assistance. The Taliban spokesman said there was no question that people other than senior Afghan Taliban commanders would attend their meetings.

“Our movement is indigenous and has been launched for the liberation of our country from the clutches of the occupying forces,” he said, adding: “There is no doubt we are receiving financial assistance from kind-hearted Muslims from across the world, but we never got any help from the ISI.”

He argued as to why the Afghan Taliban would expect any help from Pakistan or the ISI when Taliban fighters were arrested in Pakistan whenever they went there for treatment or other personal needs.

Zabihullah Mujahid argued that the Afghan Taliban started their resistance against the US-led occupying forces the day their country was invaded and Pakistan was a key ally of coalition forces in this war.

Also, he said, there was no chance the LSE would have interviewed Afghan Taliban commanders for the research report that appeared on Sunday. “If they are talking about former Taliban ministers, we have categorically stated that they are not part of our movement,” the Taliban spokesman said.

He said the Taliban movement had entered the decisive phase and had forced the US and its allies to offer them talks. “It is our firm belief that the sacrifices of our Mujahideen will bear fruit one day,” he said.

ISI, Zardari join forces to back Taliban!

Really, is there any credibility left in this guy's (LSE report author) work?

 

[SMC]

Indians on international forums are being very opportunistic and trying to make the most of this report. At least the ones I am in, I am making their lives very hard.

 

[SMC]

Interestingly enough, the arguments being given by Indians - not just here but also on other forums - are the very similar to the ones given by many Pakistanis regarding Indian supporting for terrorism.

 

[Omar1984]

All I see here are words like "alleges".

Provide solid proof. Without solid proof, these reports are all bullsh!t.