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Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban: UK University

And strange thing about this Matt Waldman thing is, he interviewed these 08 or so field commanders, none of them tried to kidnap him knowing how lucrative his kidnapping could be, and if he could find these commanders, why couldn't the NATO or US find anyone of them ??

Exactly, problem is that every agency on earth has contacts in set-up's like this, that is no secret, but to say that ISI is actively funding the insrugents and has a seat on the Jirga, is complete rubbish.

Why would a agent need to sit on a jirga when his local asset can provide him with the HUMINT?, utter nonsense.

This Mr. Waldman is highly niave if he belives half of what he has written and is dillusional if he actually expects people to belive what he has authored.

The entire paper reads like a half baked **** and bull story.
 
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They need a scape goat, and we are the best option for that, hope we don't become one and counter the US BS propaganda.

Well, i read the complete paper. The whole report is filled with 'so and so believes this' and 'such and such is apparent because so and so says so'.

But there are two new things in it.

One, is the part which quotes a Taliban commander on the incident where President Zardari apparently visited a prison and assured held Taliban commanders that Pakistan supports them and they will be released. The Taliban commander also knew that President Zardari asked the Taliban commanders not to tell the media about his visit.

Although, for a shrewd politican like Zardari, it is very unlikely that this would have happened. But the underlining issue is that the report has pointed at Mr Zardari as a sympathizer of Taliban and more so, that he is in complete harmony with the ISI. I don't know for a fact but previous events contradict such relationship.

However, i am wondering why would the report name Zardari, even when it had no source to authenticate the claims of this commander.

Another very interesting fact, in the report, which i don't think has been quoted anywhere, is a popular belief among Afghans conveyed to the author of this report that the US is secretly funding and encouraging the insurgency in Afghanistan. Although the author gives a twist to it by saying that it could be because of US support to Pakistan, which is respnsible for the unrest in Afghanistan, that Afghans may believe this.
 
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Well, i read the complete paper. The whole report is filled with 'so and so believes this' and 'such and such is apparent because so and so says so'.

But there are two new things in it.

One, is the part which quotes a Taliban commander on the incident where President Zardari apparently visited a prison and assured held Taliban commanders that Pakistan supports them and they will be released. The Taliban commander also knew that President Zardari asked the Taliban commanders not to tell the media about his visit.

Although, for a shrewd politican like Zardari, it is very unlikely that this would have happened. But the underlining issue is that the report has pointed at Mr Zardari as a sympathizer of Taliban and more so, that he is in complete harmony with the ISI. I don't know for a fact but previous events contradict such relationship.

However, i am wondering why would the report name Zardari, even when it had no source to authenticate the claims of this commander.

Another very interesting fact, in the report, which i don't think has been quoted anywhere, is a popular belief among Afghans conveyed to the author of this report that the US is secretly funding and encouraging the insurgency in Afghanistan. Although the author gives a twist to it by saying that it could be because of US support to Pakistan, which is respnsible for the unrest in Afghanistan, that Afghans may believe this.

Remember what happened to Musharaf, when he wasn't delivering as the US had wanted to, when they sensed their main man is following another line, what did they do, they started similar reports and started to accuse him, with ISI, so that to oust him and when Musharaf needed his help, the same US as per their past practices were no where to be found.

Zardari had been brought up due to a similar reason, US point man in Pakistan who will deliver, bringing ISI under his intelligence czar Malik Sb, which back fired, these were all the things which the US wanted them to do, but in last 2 years, these puppets have also failed to deliver, so now make such reports, Zardari is US national, he met Taliban commanders in custody and said this and that, to pressurize Zardari so that he delivers, or trying to find another person who can deliver.

As said, these are all pressure tactics, for one thing or multiple things.

Old tactics by US and its so called think tanks or such analysts.
 
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Remember what happened to Musharaf, when he wasn't delivering as the US had wanted to, when they sensed their main man is following another line, what did they do, they started similar reports and started to accuse him, with ISI, so that to oust him and when Musharaf needed his help, the same US as per their past practices were no where to be found.

Well obviously. That's what i was trying to point out, that if at all this report contains anything interesting, it is that Washignton is having second thoughts about Mr Zardari. Or perhaps, there are some who want Washington to have second thoughts. Because prior to this report, i don't remember any such report which went against Mr Zardari or pointed towards him as a supporter of Taliban.
 
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Guys guys there is no way in hell u can turn any pakistanis against ISI there are a few who are vested with western intrests mainly in journalist community but that’s it they constitute only 0.01 percent of pakistan’s population,west and india can propagate watever they like,the hell even if they come up with solid evidences we will never turn against ISI which till today they have not,every pakistani knows ISI is our first line of defense against all enemies internal and external well mostly external ,the core of ISI is to protect pakistan ‘s interests whereever it is needed and they will go to any limits to do it and we pakistanis endorse wat ever covert steps they take for the motherland,we trust them a force of 10,000 only able to effect events beyond our borders and a constant headache for indians and west now that is something worth boosting abt for any secret service.

Even if ALLAH forbid west and india manage some how to strip us of our nukes and even finish of our army but could not finish isi then they achieve nothin and they know it,bcuz isi is like a root and army and our nukes are the tree u can cut a tree but if u donot pull out its roots it will grow back.u can kill something that u can see touch and feel but u can’t kill shadows.
a word of adviceto non pakistanis:never ever try to preach a pakistani anything against isi u will only reduce ur stature b4 him.

A salute to our boys in the isi who r busy at this very moment defending the nation against all covert and overt adversaries,the war of secret service continues,we are proud of u ISI,pakistan zindabad :pakistan:
 
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Very creative and sophisticated thinking coming out by Indians on other international forums:

My argument: If the author knows that Pakistan is supporting Taliban, then so would NATO. The fact that NATO has made no big deal about it means they know Pakistan isn't supporting Taliban.

Counter argument 1 from Indians: NATO already knows about ISI support but is not making it public so as to not displease Pakistan.

Counter argument 2: NATO is the one who made this report. What makes you think NATO doesn't already know about Pakistan's support for ISI.

This is besides the fact that the author of the report is arguing same way many Pakistanis do. i.e. author is saying that he talked to Taliban commanders who believe (but don't prove) ISI is supporting Taliban, and on the other hand we have Pakistanis who have insiders within the ISI/army who say they have information and proof of Indian support for terrorism.

Well, when we use the same logic, Indians call it conspiracy theory. So by applying the same logic and standard, what we have here is also a conspiracy theory.

Keep in mind that when we discuss Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan, there's no sophisticated thinking by Indians - only black and white simplistic thinking.
 
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Who are the students of this study group which published this report ? I hardly meet any Anglo- British in these sort of study groups. It looks like a report published by some students bear more value than the view of the governments to some people. Governance is far from school work which many student never realise. Many of us work for the government longer than the age of these students.
 
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oh my God , i have just heard on Tv because of this report and "as always we said so " reports from India and Afghanistan , the world Armies have just decided to invade Pakistan and end the insurgency once in for all ... !!

why ?
because they just suddenly started to care what the Extremely Anti Pakistan Current afg Government and India thinks !!
 
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It is quite interesting that after the release of report, one would think why on earth should Pakistan accept that they are involved in helping Taliban? Obviously the easiest solution is to bury your head in the sand and say “LSE report is lot of rubbish”.

For those who have read the report, they must have noted “Sun in the Sky” this is how evident it is in ISI’s involvement with Taliban but the question is “can someone dare to say so” is a different matter. Nobody at least in Pakistan Army can deny that they are not behind Afghan Taliban for if you deny, I would say it is impossible to hide such a big lie.

Now the question is “Is it Right OR Wrong”. Logically if you think about it, “There is no eternal enemy or friend but your nation interest” explains it all. However it is a kind of different yard stick in Islam IF you follow it when it comes to winning or losing a battle. It is your life in the hereafter which is your aim to get succeeded and mostly you win it at the cost of losing everything in this world.
Staying shoulder to should with US on one hand in the war on terror and then to stab her in the back strategy and exploiting Muslim by Jihad and use them as your pawn for your national interest is nothing BUT Hypocrisy in decent language is called.

With this attitude, Pakistan may win over US or its neighbours etc but let me tell you this; you will appear in front of your creator with blood on your hands of innocents on the day of judgement IF you follow principals of Islam. If your standards aren’t those of Islam, then good luck to you and break a leg what you do.

Call LSE LPC or whatever pleases you, but trust me it wouldn’t help you till you call a spade a spade. Make your option to bend forward for the west OR in front of your creator. Pakistan is making itself look fool by their double standards. It is time for Pakistan to smell some coffee and correct its Qibla before it is too late.
 
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The last time I read the news US blamed Iran for helping Taliban. Last time it was peace Jirga in Kabul who came to conclusion that they should talk to Taliban.

Pakistan has even talk to Northern Alliance for bring Shah Grand Son (a good idea to me) for peace.
On 20th of this month Pakistan will get F-16 blk 52 , do you think if Pakistan was helping Taliban would US give them that planes? :coffee:
 
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It is quite interesting that after the release of report, one would think why on earth should Pakistan accept that they are involved in helping Taliban? Obviously the easiest solution is to bury your head in the sand and say “LSE report is lot of rubbish”.

For those who have read the report, they must have noted “Sun in the Sky” this is how evident it is in ISI’s involvement with Taliban but the question is “can someone dare to say so” is a different matter. Nobody at least in Pakistan Army can deny that they are not behind Afghan Taliban for if you deny, I would say it is impossible to hide such a big lie.

Now the question is “Is it Right OR Wrong”. Logically if you think about it, “There is no eternal enemy or friend but your nation interest” explains it all. However it is a kind of different yard stick in Islam IF you follow it when it comes to winning or losing a battle. It is your life in the hereafter which is your aim to get succeeded and mostly you win it at the cost of losing everything in this world.
Staying shoulder to should with US on one hand in the war on terror and then to stab her in the back strategy and exploiting Muslim by Jihad and use them as your pawn for your national interest is nothing BUT Hypocrisy in decent language is called.

With this attitude, Pakistan may win over US or its neighbours etc but let me tell you this; you will appear in front of your creator with blood on your hands of innocents on the day of judgement IF you follow principals of Islam. If your standards aren’t those of Islam, then good luck to you and break a leg what you do.

Call LSE LPC or whatever pleases you, but trust me it wouldn’t help you till you call a spade a spade. Make your option to bend forward for the west OR in front of your creator. Pakistan is making itself look fool by their double standards. It is time for Pakistan to smell some coffee and correct its Qibla before it is too late.

What kind of a post is this? I mean that's like shoving your opinion, your version of the truth down somebody else's throat. How evident is Pakistan's support? Because there's no evidence for that.

To call what you're calling a "big lie", you have to first proof that the opposite of the lie is true. i.e. to prove that the Pakistan army is lying about X, you have to prove that X is true. It isn't proven right now.
 
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Pakistan Army is victim of Taliban attacks and when USA has a intelligence center in Peshawar along with its private Army plus a operational unmanned plane base in Pakistan how come all this could be true.
 
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And strange thing about this Matt Waldman thing is, he interviewed these 08 or so field commanders, none of them tried to kidnap him knowing how lucrative his kidnapping could be, and if he could find these commanders, why couldn't the NATO or US find anyone of them ??
Maybe He did not use his real name.. or may be he did not flash his resume*.. or he gained their confidence by providing them with 'humanatarian aid'(*Viagra and cialis)
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*Matt Waldman is a fellow at the Carr Center for Human Rights at Harvard University, and is the former Head of Policy and advocacy for Oxfam International in Afghanistan. Previously he worked as a foreign affairs and defence adviser in the UK and European Parliaments, and as deputy director of overseas operations of a UK children's charity, which included work in Eastern Europe and Africa. Prior to this he practised as a lawyer with an international law firm, based in London, involving overseas work in Europe and Russia. He holds a masters degree in human rights from London School of Economics

***
 
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Why Waldman must be sued

Tuesday, June 15, 2010
Mosharraf Zaidi

The buzz being generated by an LSE discussion paper is truly electric. The paper itself is rather unremarkable, alleging long-alleged, long-acknowledged, and long-standing links between Pakistani intelligence and the Kandahari Taliban (those Taliban associated with Mullah Omar and the original extremist political movement that rose in the Afghanistan of the 1990s). What is remarkable however is the vigor and confidence with which the author uses already established theories and facts to libel the president of Pakistan.

Matt Waldman, the Carr Center fellow who wrote the report claims to have interviewed 54 different people, out of which at least nine are Taliban field commanders in Afghanistan, ten are former Taliban government officials, twenty-two are Afghan "elders", and thirteen are foreign diplomats, analysts and experts. In a report that is essentially about Pakistan, Waldman must be the world's unluckiest researcher, having been unable to interview a single one of Pakistan's more than 180 million people. Waldman is at least honest about this, claiming no conversations with Pakistani officials, military officers, or indeed, any ISI agents. Not having spoken to an ISI agent is an aspect of the report that stands out. Because, if there is one thing Waldman's research really tries to prove, it is that the easiest thing to find in Afghanistan, other than finely-cut heroin, are ISI agents.

Remarkably, not a single one of the 54 honest and endearing protagonists in Matt Waldman's story wanted to be cited by name, or go on the record. In the footnote detailing who the nine Taliban field commanders are, he offers no details, stating that "Due to safety concerns each commander insisted on anonymity". This is terribly confusing. Waldman's Taliban commanders don't seem to have any particular safety concerns when blowing up and killing Gen Stanley McChrystal's JSOC boys while they are on patrol in Helmand. But an LSE report with their names in it scares the jihad right out of them?

Of course, Waldman is not the first to ravage Pakistan's policy of supporting religiously-motivated armed groups that support Pakistan's foreign policy objectives through terrorism. Pakistanis and foreigners have both advocated for years about the inherent risks of a strategy that creates monsters than have no pause, or stand-by button. Most of us have based our critique of this approach of using proxy warriors, whether Kashmiri, or Afghan, or Pakistani, on the very real damage they do to Pakistan itself, to the moral case they claim to espouse, to the establishment of a fledgling democracy, and to the prospects for prosperity and peace across the entire region. Matt Waldman tries with his paper to join a long and distinguished list of critics of Pakistani proxy warfare, not with substantial critique, but with rehashed polemics about the inherent evil of Pakistan's flawed national security paradigm.

Waldman is also not the first to draw conclusions from circumstantial facts. Since at least late 2007, Pakistani hypernationalists have been propagating the ideas that the TTP is an externally-funded terrorist coalition. Where else could the TTP possibly get its money, these war-loving, hypernationalists often ask? Waldman does one better. He collates press reports and analysis about the different sources of the Afghan Taliban's income (none of which mention Pakistan, or the ISI) and then asks the same question that Pakistani hypernationalists ask. "How could all this happen without 'external' support?" Of course it can't, according to Waldman's Zaid Hamid-esque logic. Waldman's answer to everything is the ISI.

This too, of course, is hardly novel. Until 2007, even President Karzai spared no occasion to depict Afghanistan as a victim of the ISI. Who can forget Karzai's dramatic performance from December 2006, when Karzai made a famous tearful appeal for an end to Pakistan's "murder of Afghan children"? Though Karzai seems to have found something agreeable about President Zardari and the post-2008 election Pakistan, other frontline Northern Alliance bosses continue to blame Pakistan for everything. Corruption, the drug-trade, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. All come from Pakistan. And everything from Pakistan, of course, is produced in a laboratory by the ISI.

Essentially, Waldman's report restates old allegations and sexes them up. It is really old wine, in a shiny new bottle. There is however one quite spectacularly novel thing about this report. It is a libelous and malicious attack on Pakistani democracy, beginning right at the top, with the President of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari.

Waldman doesn't libel President Zardari accidentally. By including his wild allegation of Zardari's meetings with Taliban jailbirds in his abstract, he loudly proclaims that slurring Zardari, and by extension the Pakistani people, is part of the objective of the report. He states that, "President Zardari and a senior ISI official visited some 50 high-ranking Talibs who were held in a prison in a secret location in Pakistan". He then describes how Zardari assured the arrested Taliban of his support, and their subsequent release in keeping with those assurances. The report's allegations about President Zardari's meetings with the Taliban leaders are derived from a single, unnamed, low- to mid-level Taliban field commander operating in Afghanistan. Any person with a pulse will be able to discern how ridiculous and malicious this allegation is. Yet by the time folks have a chance to consider its qualifications the damage will have been done.

What makes Waldman's attack on Zardari particularly toxic is that it serves no purpose other than to paint the last decent thing about Pakistan in Westerners' eyes--Pakistani democracy--with the same colour as everything else here has been painted. That is immeasurably lethal, and its collateral damage is not just political, but economic too. Denials of the report's claims from Farahnaz Ispahani, Farhatullah Babar and Gen Athar Abbas don't go nearly far enough in countering Waldman's defamatory work.

Pakistan's national security paradigm deserves to be discussed, dissected, and deconstructed by Pakistanis and friends of Pakistan that wish this country a more secure future. This country has been an insecure, fidgety, spasmodic, neurotic, and obsessive-compulsive neighbour. Pakistan's military needs to be held to account for the money it spends, and the decisions it takes, by Pakistan's elected representatives. Pakistan's intelligence agencies have spent far too much blood and treasure trying to manipulate the hearts and minds of people, in Pakistan, and abroad into wars that are unwinnable, unloseable, and unendable. They should be reigned in and become more focused on protecting the life and property of Pakistanis.

When informed commentators, whether they are Pakistani, or not, write about Pakistan's problems, good sense must prevail. Freedom of speech does not only apply to journalism, but to academic discourse too. Pakistanis should embrace the critical lens that is being placed on their country. Clearly, we have failed ourselves. It cannot hurt to have some help in understanding the mess we've created. Honest critical analysis of Pakistan should be welcomed.

The difference between critical analysis and malicious slander however is quite stark. By deliberately targeting President Asif Ali Zardari, Matt Waldman has not simply bad-mouthed Mr Zardari. What Waldman has done is much worse. He has slandered the symbol of the Pakistani federation. One can't be anything but certain that President Zardari has never visited Taliban leaders in jail. If that is a certainty, then so must be a lawsuit. Accusing the Pakistani president of meeting with international outlaws, to offer them his support is outrageous, and is designed to injure Pakistan. It must be resisted with the full power of Pakistan's substantial legal human resources in courts of law in the United Kingdom. There is a big difference between accusing clandestine services of behaving badly and accusing the president of a country of aiding and abetting international outlaws. Without legal liability to deter it, this blurring of lines will become epidemic. Matt Waldman needs to be sued for libeling the President of Pakistan.



The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi

Why Waldman must be sued
 
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I was watching Hamid Mir's show Capital Talk today. Although I dislike him for his hate of the army and ISI, him and his panelists made some good points today.

US wants to get out of Afghanistan and get out quickly. Their tentative withdrawal date is Summer 2011. That's just another year from now. At this point, they were nowhere near close to be winning the war.

A lot was suppose to happen this summer from NATO's perspective - talk about NATO Taliban showdown in summer, etc - however half of the summer is gone and nothing has happened.

Once this summer is gone, NATO is really done for, unless they want to extend their time in Afghanistan.

They know that their campaign is pretty much done for and they've lost miserably. So they're preparing ahead for their withdrawal and for pinning the blame of their loss on someone. Pakistan and ISI seems to be the scapegoat, or the "kurbani ka bakra" in this case.
 
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