Pakistani Military Still Cultivates Militant Groups - More US Propaganda

[Slides]

There was zero evidence that OBL was in Pakistan until he was actually produced. That doesn't mean the allegations of the U.S., offered without proof - that OBL was in Pakistani - were false. Zero evidence is not zero credibility.

Wrong, there was SOME evidence that OBL might be in Pakistan through the courier that was tracked to his hiding place. Interrogation, phone call intercepts, tracking movements of suspect does not count as zero evidence.

Ahmed al-Kuwati even came up on the radar of the ISI, before the CIA got his real name from their interrogations at Gitmo. This is the opposite of zero evidence or a puff piece in the NYTatto.

 

[Solomon2]

I think what happened here is that the NYTatto got scammed like NATO before by some shopkeeper from Quetta.

Possible, but this reporter seems very experienced - eight years in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Probably wised up to scams by now, don't you think?

 

[Slides]

Possible, but this reporter seems very experienced - eight years in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Probably wised up to scams by now, don't you think?

No, I don't think so. Maybe the reporter is simply being fed by US intel for the purpose of pressurizing Pakistan, or this is just another straight up scam. No jihadisit who has been in the game for 15 years, even the most "moderate" would say that he would kill a fellow Muslim for monetary gains. That just sounds like a mercenary.

 

[Solomon2]

Wrong, there was SOME evidence that OBL might be in Pakistan through the courier that was tracked to his hiding place. Interrogation, phone call intercepts, tracking movements of suspect does not count as zero evidence.

That was all stuff that wasn't released to the public. (Maybe some of it was stuff the ISI let pass to the Americans by accident, not realizing its significance.) The fact remains that public allegations without proof were made by the Americans and in the end turned out to be true whereas Pakistani denials turned out to be false - as Agnostic Muslim confirmed, the Pakistani gov't didn't search for OBL because it conveniently classified him as dead. No one is safer than a dead man, yes?

 

[Solomon2]

No, I don't think so. Maybe the reporter is simply being fed by US intel for the purpose of pressurizing Pakistan, or this is just another straight up scam. No jihadisit who has been in the game for 15 years, even the most "moderate" would say that he would kill a fellow Muslim for monetary gains. That just sounds like a mercenary.

I think the reporter would be wise by now to U.S., Pakistani, or Afghan scams. But maybe not to something run by the Saudis.

 

[Slides]

That was all stuff that wasn't released to the public. (Maybe some of it was stuff the ISI let pass to the Americans by accident, not realizing its significance.) The fact remains that public allegations without proof were made by the Americans and in the end turned out to be true whereas Pakistani denials turned out to be false - as Agnostic Muslim confirmed, the Pakistani gov't didn't search for OBL because it conveniently classified him as dead. No one is safer than a dead man, yes?

If the ISI was protecting OBL, they would know significance of the information on Al-Kuwati, instead of not even knowing his real name. Not knowing about the presence of someone is very different then actively supporting someone, of which no evidence has been found or presented by anyone. The level of ISI's collusion with the militant groups that is thrown around, would mean that many people would know of this policy and it would be relatively easy for the US to catch the ISI off guard over the past decade.

As I explained in my other post, most people do not realize how the the ISI works and actually believe that it's officers can and do take part in independent operations. This is far from the truth.

 

[Slides]

I think the reporter would be wise by now to U.S., Pakistani, or Afghan scams. But maybe not to something run by the Saudis.

More then likely the reporter is not wise to US intel scams in making up people who do not exist or are virtually unimportant. Ahmed Chalabi anyone? Either way, it's obvious that the info on the ISI is as bogus as WMDs in Iraq.

 

[Solomon2]

If the ISI was protecting OBL, they would know significance of the information on Al-Kuwati, instead of not even knowing his real name. Not knowing about the presence of someone is very different then actively supporting someone -

It sounds like a case of Pakistani officials refusing to consider the possibility that OBL was alive on Pakistani territory - passive support. Jinnah once pulled the same thing, refusing to hear reports about operations in Kashmir, saying, ‘Don’t tell me anything about it. My conscience must be clear.’ Just as the tribes invading Kashmir in '47 knew Jinnah would look the other way, OBL had the same conviction that Pakistani officials would remain blind to his presence.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There was zero evidence that OBL was in Pakistan until he was actually produced. That doesn't mean the allegations of the U.S., offered without proof - that OBL was in Pakistani - were false. Zero evidence is not zero credibility.

There is 'zero evidence' that Pakistan is sheltering 'Aliens from another Galaxy', would you also like to argue that if the US alleges Pakistan is sheltering 'Aliens from another Galaxy' that the 'claim is true' and it is up to Pakistan to 'disprove it'?

Your argument is absurd and a logical fallacy, which you are no doubt aware of.

And while you trumpet the case of OBL, let me again point out the colossal failure of US intelligence when it claimed WMD's in Iraq, and declared it in the UN. Also, when it comes to OBL, the fact that Pakistan provided key intelligence and continued to allow US intelligence operations in Abbottabad to continue despite being aware of increased US activity in the City, clearly points to the fact that Pakistan cannot be blamed on this count.

Until OBL was tracked down, no one knew where he was, not just Pakistan, and it was in fact the US that acted deceitfully by choosing to leave Pakistan in the dark about intelligence it had developed that pointed to OBL's location, despite Pakistan providing key intelligence that allowed that breakthrough.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

the Pakistani gov't didn't search for OBL because it conveniently classified him as dead. No one is safer than a dead man, yes?

Speculative conspiracy theory to support an argument of Pakistani complicity again.

Pakistan was not the only party that believed OBL to be dead, and the fact is that even if OBL was alive, he was largely irrelevant as a threat, since he was neither the brains of AQ nor the financier any more after the US invasion of Afghanistan. Pakistan in fact neutralized leaders and members of AQ that actually posed a threat - people like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Libbi, Ramzi Yousuf etc.

Pakistan's track record on neutralizing high level AQ figures speaks for itself, but is deliberately ignored by the West and commentators like yourself as part of this smear campaign against the ISI and Military.

 

[King Solomon]

Pakistan military and ISI will continue to support militant groups if it is in its interest.

 

[Rafi]

I find it endlessly fascinating the indian obsession with all things Pakistani.

 

[Jango]

Speculative conspiracy theory to support an argument of Pakistani complicity again.

Pakistan was not the only party that believed OBL to be dead, and the fact is that even if OBL was alive, he was largely irrelevant as a threat, since he was neither the brains of AQ nor the financier any more after the US invasion of Afghanistan. Pakistan in fact neutralized leaders and members of AQ that actually posed a threat - people like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Libbi, Ramzi Yousuf etc.

Pakistan's track record on neutralizing high level AQ figures speaks for itself, but us deliberately ignored by the West and commentators like yourself as part of this smear campaign against the ISI and Military.

good post

 

[Slides]

It sounds like a case of Pakistani officials refusing to consider the possibility that OBL was alive on Pakistani territory - passive support. Jinnah once pulled the same thing, refusing to hear reports about operations in Kashmir, saying, ‘Don’t tell me anything about it. My conscience must be clear.’ Just as the tribes invading Kashmir in '47 knew Jinnah would look the other way, OBL had the same conviction that Pakistani officials would remain blind to his presence.

Yes indeed, Jinnah awoke from his grave and gave shelter to OBL.

Your quote about Jinnah is also from a source that is less than credible, but whatever.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

“US officials need to bring [the evidence they have] into the public domain,” said Ali Dayan Hasan, Human Rights Watch representative in Pakistan. “Anonymous statements from US officials do not help the course of justice.”

US urged to reveal details of murder - FT.com