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Pakistan likely to extend MFN status to India

First thing first, smuggling of goods must be stopped. Before the business starts. Because by starting business in these circumstances the volume of smuggling will spin out of control.

Actually the reverse.. If the business is started with the right approach, it will remove/reduce the need for smuggling.
 
Sometime i wonder that how come educated people talks like this.....but then Education cannot teach everything....Right???

Not to cherry pick you GB but let me share my thoughts on your post.....

You are just putting your point so why should anyone hate you???

You should learn from your company....You might be surprised but people living close to borders don't share the same animosity that internet warriors like us are plagued with....As you said you yourself have visited Pakistan twice you would have noticed how strikingly similar customs/food/clothing they have...In short give people to people contact will increase the warmth many folds....

Its funny backhome we thing each other as enemy and here(western world) we greet each other....I was back in Chandigarh when Pak cricket team visited India.....You would be surprised but Locals offered their home for Pakistani guests.....Trust me if we explore people do not hate each other...They hate respective govt. and that's about it....

Yes because you are not impacted by it...Ask those who have families across the border how important it is for them....Recently there was a case shown on "The BIG Fight"(NDTV) where a mother's Visa was not extended by Indian officials after her husband died and her three kids(2 sons and a daughter) were forced to live without their mother....This is just one case of thousands....

So little bit of compassion will not hurt any....right???

No it won't but will loose an opportunity to grow and further help our masses....Let me quote you an example....India-China trade is $60 Billion....Obviously this is not the figure we started with..right??? Had GOI shared the same opinion like you we would not have reached where we are viz-a-viz China....

Buddy India and Pak if resolve their differences can do wonders to each other....Just imagine

For India - whole of central asia to explore
For Pakistan - a billion people strong market....

It can go the other way around....Today if Indo-China tention rise off goes the $60 billion worth of trade which will hurt both....So think about it....

My Friend

a. Who gave MFN status first? - It was India.
b. Who refused to give India the MFN status? - It was Pakistan. Still it is a cheap talk not conclusion.
c. Who refused Afghan trade routes to India? - Pakistan.
d. Who had put ban on Indian movies for decades? - It was Pakistan.
e. Who put a ban on Indian television channels? - Pakistan

Yet you are advocating all the above things.

Pakistan should have extend MFN to India the moment India did so. Did they do that? - NO

India always took positive steps towards Pakistan what we got in return is nothing.

Buddy India and Pak if resolve their differences can do wonders to each other....Just imagine

Last time my Prime Minister took a bus to Pakistan, what we got in return was Kargil conflict.
Yes because you are not impacted by it...Ask those who have families across the border how important it is for them....

Yes you will advocate this coz you didn't got impacted by Kargil War either.

Ask those who lost their 'Ghar Ke Chirag' or 'Jigar Ka Tukda's. Speak to those mothers who lost their brave sons.

Then advocate for the Bus service and Train Service.

GB
 
So u mean to tell me that Indians knowingly export live stock. knowing that it will be killed and used for food.

Yes they do. Just as live-stock is bred and killed in India to fill Indian stomachs. As for the live-stock themselves, they have no hang-ups (AFAIK); they are willing to fill any stomach that eats them.
But on the other hand both countries can trade mangoes for example. i've tasted Pakistani mangoes and they tasted great (nearly as good as Indian ones ;)) Please don't accuse me of 'jingoism'.
How about exporting some cotton for instance- will make some great shirts!:cheers:
 
My Friend

a. Who gave MFN status first? - It was India.
b. Who refused to give India the MFN status? - It was Pakistan. Still it is a cheap talk not conclusion.
c. Who refused Afghan trade routes to India? - Pakistan.
d. Who had put ban on Indian movies for decades? - It was Pakistan.
e. Who put a ban on Indian television channels? - Pakistan

Yet you are advocating all the above things.

Pakistan should have extend MFN to India the moment India did so. Did they do that? - NO

India always took positive steps towards Pakistan what we got in return is nothing.



Last time my Prime Minister took a bus to Pakistan, what we got in return was Kargil conflict.


Yes you will advocate this coz you didn't got impacted by Kargil War either.

Ask those who lost their 'Ghar Ke Chirag' or 'Jigar Ka Tukda's. Speak to those mothers who lost their brave sons.

Then advocate for the Bus service and Train Service.

GB

I second that... Cant expect sweets from people who back-stabbed us many times. How can we ever forget Kargil? How can we ever forget that when our Prime Minister boarded a bus to talk of peace their PM and General was preparing to take lives of many Indians.

We should not stop trading with Pakistan or improving our relationship but I guess we should use the iron fist wherever necessary. We should make them negotiate on our terms, to trade on our wishes and not always as equals . We should learn from US on how to dominate a nation. We should create channels where we can hurt them if they do anything against our interests.

Give Pakistan all the goodies but make them so dependent that if there is a terror attack in India then the whole of Pakistan pays the price.
 
yeah i think this news was posted couple of days ago. Well i would say its a positive decision and beneficial for both countries. If we can buy something for 80 rupees from India then why same product from china for 100 rupees?

This will save our foreign reserves and we will be able to spend this money in other important projects. It will defenitely help our economy and promote peace in this subcontinent. Similar statement applies for India as there are many products in Pakistan offering for cheaper pricees than other countries.

But one thing we must always remember is........... Kashmir should be our top priority as always


PEACE BROTHER???? peace with a neighbor that DARES to tell you that it will do surgical strikes on you?

india will use that "80 RUPPES" you talk about to buy wepaons against us!!!

have you forgotten the tone of the indians in 98 when they conducted the nuclear test or the surgical strikes drama they wished to do recently!!!


have you forgotten the back stabbing in the 1971 CIVIL WAR!! HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THE DECEIVING INCURSION INTO SIACHEN IN THE 80s or how KASHMIR WAS TAKEN IN 1947 SO WAS JUNAGADH??

most important of ALL we pakistanis shouldn't compromise on kashmir freedom! :pakistan:
 
GB we need to be realistic....Continued rivalry is not good for either India or Pakistan...I have a message for all the people who have hatred for India or Pakistan....Support this if not for peace(X-Y-Z reasons) but for betterment of your own country....

GB let me dwell more into it....

My Friend

a. Who gave MFN status first? - It was India.
b. Who refused to give India the MFN status? - It was Pakistan. Still it is a cheap talk not conclusion.
c. Who refused Afghan trade routes to India? - Pakistan.
d. Who had put ban on Indian movies for decades? - It was Pakistan.
e. Who put a ban on Indian television channels? - Pakistan

You are right....But so??? Think from a Pakistani POV you will get the similar points...Haven't we divided them into two halves???

Yet you are advocating all the above things.

Pakistan should have extend MFN to India the moment India did so. Did they do that? - NO

India always took positive steps towards Pakistan what we got in return is nothing.

Exactly my point... that's why i said it is high time Pakistan should give MFN status to India....However because they have not doesn't mean what makes sense should not be done....We have done the right thing by giving them MFN status...This is economically and politically a right step....It is unfortunate that GOP has not so far reciprocated but such news suggests that Indian proposal is the right one...and that's why sane voices across the border are backing it...isn't it???

Now i have shared benefits of Pakistan with ASQ...Let me share the benefits of India...

- Peace : This deal has the potential to do what has not been achieved in past 6 decades....Peace
- Central Asia : Pakistan geographical location makes it best fot trade with Central Asia...
- JObs : The more the trade more job opportunities in India
- Cheap Goods : Obviously if trasnportation cost reduces then overall price will reduce
- People to People Contact : You have given me examples of mens that we lost in Kargil....How about if we also consider people who have families across border???? How about if we ask them as well???


Last time my Prime Minister took a bus to Pakistan, what we got in return was Kargil conflict.
You are right....However don't you think it is pragmatic to look towards future???

Yes you will advocate this coz you didn't got impacted by Kargil War either.
Have you been impacted bro??? If you do then i feel sorry for your loss...Just an FYI i lost a family member in Mumbai Attack...yet i support this move fully heartedly because it is pragmatic and will save many more lives and above all it is good for my country....


Ask those who lost their 'Ghar Ke Chirag' or 'Jigar Ka Tukda's. Speak to those mothers who lost their brave sons. Then advocate for the Bus service and Train Service.GB

Buddy do you know how many mens are we loosing in Siachen??? How many mens are we loosing in Valley??? Are their lives less important then all those brave souls??? If this deal can give us much needed peace...If this deal can help our masses...if this deal can save lives then why oppose...

Look at Indo-China border....The economic benefits our masses are reaping....Unresolved yet peaceful borders....Don't you think it would be a blessing for both India and Pakistan if the same can be emulated on western border of ours????

P.S : We are anyways rivals....Lets give peace another chance....if it works it would be awesome...if it don't we have nothing to loose....Usual rhetoric and irritants will keep on....What say??
 
Sure!!!



Yes sir i did catch it :agree:...For those who did not let me make quick points

a) You know nothing about economics
b) You have no idea how beneficial this would be for Pakistani markets and end user
c) You have no idea how many job opportunities it will create in Pakistan
d) You have no idea how good this would be for the region....because once Pakistan and India engages like Indo-China they will understand how damaging a war/low-level conflict would be for both....
e) You have no idea how important this step would be to bring normalcy between India and Pakistan which in turn will help masses
f) Last but not the least you have no idea that your hatred has made you blind because while we are talking common man in Pakistan are busy watching movies made in the same adversary land and common man in my country are busy watching Pakistani plays....On top of that we both are using products made in adversary lands by virtue of Legal and Illegal trade ...

I hope i did get the drift...Do help me if i have not....

Read my previous post telling that we must stop smuggling even if it need to apply force.

Those who watch Indians movies are motivated by lust, greed and dishonor by watching enemy movies as they support enemy's capability to buy more weapons. And those who go to India to sing are doing so for personal gains and not for the country.U should pay attention to my avatar it say sab sey pehley Pakistan.

We do not need lecture about economics from our adversary.

We know that it is bending the truth when u say that Pakistan will benefit, actually India will flood our Markets with cheap goods. Nothing that i know will benefit Pakistan other than making Indians happy. We should not do business to make our adversaries happy.

You talk about good for Region in the same breath as u talk about supremacy of Indian rakshak and how u won all the wars and how you so cunningly convinced unsuspecting Bengali's, your motive was to break the power of Muslims of subcontinent so that you can get away with murdering poor Muslims in India and in Kashmir. Little you knew that most of the fighting force comes from West Pakistan and u have achieved nothing by breaking Pakistan as a matter fact u may have done good as the Bangladesh now realizes that it was a mistake, u can see these facts if you read posts by Bangladeshis on this forum.

For once be honest and let the diplomacy work for Kashmir and only than we will know u mean business in an honest way.

If common man in Pakistan is watching Indian movies they are supporting India with hard earned foreign exchange and are supporting our adversary.

Smuggling must be stopped even it need to apply force, those who do it are traitors of the country as they by their greed bypass the laws of the land and carry on with illegal activities.
I hope this will be enough for you to ponder if not than all I can say is that u have to learn about honor and respect as these two aspects are a vital part of doing business and at time word of mouth is enough to make a commitment in business that can involve millions of Dollars. This all depend on TRUST and there is deficit of this feeling about India in Pakistan.


so learn and learn good as it will help u to do business in future and may also teach u about vital virtues of honor and respect and how to do business keeping those as an asset.
 
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You are dillusionede man ASQ...I hope i can help but its too late now....

Those who watch Indians movies are motivated by lust, greed and dishonor by watching enemy movies as they support enemy's capability to buy more weapons. And those who go to India to sing are doing so for personal gains and not for the country.
You know that Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also came to India...Is he a traitor as well???? Buddy you have no idea but with this one stroke of line you called a good chunk of your populace as traitor....


We know that it is bending the truth when u say that Pakistan will benefit, actually India will flood our Markets with cheap goods. Nothing that i know will benefit Pakistan other than making Indians happy.

This further prooves you have 0 knowledge about economics...B/W when you opened markets to China did they flood it with cheap goods and your markets went bankrupt???


If common man in Pakistan is watching Indian movies they are supporting India with hard earned foreign exchange and are supporting our adversary.
You have lost it...


This all depend on TRUST and there is deficit of this feeling about India in Pakistan.
Trust is not a baby which India and Pakistan can produce by inter-course....This can only come by engagement....Anyways what's the point of teaching you...You already know everything....
 
GB we need to be realistic....Continued rivalry is not good for either India or Pakistan...

How many times it was us the Indians took a step forward to end the so called rivalry? negativity? to build trust and blah blah?

How many times?

What we got back each time?

You are right....But so??? Think from a Pakistani POV you will get the similar points...Haven't we divided them into two halves???

You had that peace walk with Mahesh Bhatt or you are a die hard follower of Arundhati Roy and Kuldeep Nayyar?

I don't want to get personal but we divided them into two?

I don't want to divert the topic but you sir need to get the history straight. PM me or open another thread and I will be obliged to introduce some facts to you.

Exactly my point... that's why i said it is high time Pakistan should give MFN status to India....

Have they given?

Pakistan should have given MFN the very next day India declared them as MFN.
However because they have not doesn't mean what makes sense should not be done....We have done the right thing by giving them MFN status...This is economically and politically a right step....It is unfortunate that GOP has not so far reciprocated but such news suggests that Indian proposal is the right one...and that's why sane voices across the border are backing it...isn't it???

Only time will prove you wrong. It has been proving people like you wrong since 1947.

Now i have shared benefits of Pakistan with ASQ...Let me share the benefits of India...

- Peace : This deal has the potential to do what has not been achieved in past 6 decades....Peace

What is not achieved in past 60 years will be achieved after this deal? People had same thoughts in 1999 (Lahore Bus service).

- Central Asia : Pakistan geographical location makes it best fot trade with Central Asia...

We don't need Pakistan for that. We are developing Chabbahar port in Iran and developing highways/railways in Iran and Afghanistan to access Central Asia.

I would rather send my goods through this route rathen than being looted/burn/exploded in Pakistan on route.

- JObs : The more the trade more job opportunities in India

Whats the jobless percentage in India? We are no longer in pre 1992 era. We don't need trade with Pakistan to create jobs in India.
- Cheap Goods : Obviously if trasnportation cost reduces then overall price will reduce

For Pakistan. Not for us.

- People to People Contact : You have given me examples of mens that we lost in Kargil....How about if we also consider people who have families across border???? How about if we ask them as well???

Not at the cost of my countrymen. Our armed forces.

Have you been impacted bro??? If you do then i feel sorry for your loss...Just an FYI i lost a family member in Mumbai Attack...yet i support this move fully heartedly because it is pragmatic and will save many more lives and above all it is good for my country....

Not in Kargil. But yes indirectly in Kashmir during 80's. The family member whose father sacrifised his life for nation is an ex member of this forum banned during ego clashes of Cheena and Yahya (Sharjeel) in very early days of this forum. (2005)

Buddy do you know how many mens are we loosing in Siachen??? How many mens are we loosing in Valley??? Are their lives less important then all those brave souls??? If this deal can give us much needed peace...If this deal can help our masses...if this deal can save lives then why oppose...

If this trade or MFN things going to bring peace I am not against it. But it is not going to happen. 60+ years have witnessed it. Nothing is going to change overnight.
Look at Indo-China border....The economic benefits our masses are reaping....Unresolved yet peaceful borders....Don't you think it would be a blessing for both India and Pakistan if the same can be emulated on western border of ours????

Has China waged a Jihad on your country for the disputed land? Has China murdered and raped innocent civilians of your country? Has China asked a particular religion (hindus in kashmir for instance) to leave the disputed land?

Has China ever tried to block the Kailsh Sarovar Yatra? Has the Chiense ever killed the innocent pilgirms going to Kailash Yatra?
P.S : We are anyways rivals....Lets give peace another chance....if it works it would be awesome...if it don't we have nothing to loose....Usual rhetoric and irritants will keep on....What say??

This so called peace experiment is going to come at the cost of our men. I am very much against it.

Those men and women serving the nation are not your goats to whom you can sacrifice in the name of peace.

GB
 
GB we need to be realistic....Continued rivalry is not good for either India or Pakistan...I have a message for all the people who have hatred for India or Pakistan....Support this if not for peace(X-Y-Z reasons) but for betterment of your own country....
GB let me dwell more into it....

You are right....But so??? Think from a Pakistani POV you will get the similar points...Haven't we divided them into two halves???

- Peace : This deal has the potential to do what has not been achieved in past 6 decades....Peace
- Central Asia : Pakistan geographical location makes it best fot trade with Central Asia...
- JObs : The more the trade more job opportunities in India
- Cheap Goods : Obviously if trasnportation cost reduces then overall price will reduce
- People to People Contact : You have given me examples of mens that we lost in Kargil....How about if we also consider people who have families across border???? How about if we ask them as well???


Look at Indo-China border....The economic benefits our masses are reaping....Unresolved yet peaceful borders....Don't you think it would be a blessing for both India and Pakistan if the same can be emulated on western border of ours????

There are hundreads of other avenues where we can use our energies to reap economic benefit , the tune of which will surpass the benefit that we gain from attaining a MNF status or very good trade relationships with Pakistan. At the end of the day its all about what you get in return of what you give/spend. I don't think Pakistan is capable of providing the desired return for our goods or producing the goods at a cheaper price than we already import.( in 99 percent of the cases)

We didnt divide them into two. Nobody but only the people of that country are responsible for a country's fate. Even if we would have tried as hard as possible, if the faction of East Pakistani's didnt want to be seperated then we wouldn't have been able to seperate them.
(Iraq, Afghanistan etc are prime examples)

The benefits that you have listed can all be acheived without strictly peaceful means or trade. We can dominate them and still have all that we need. ( Israel and US stand out in this respect)

Goods produced by China are cheap and in many cases India doesnt have the capability to produce the same. I dont think Pakistan has any such competitive advantage in most cases.

I dont think their are a great many trading oppurtunities where Pakistan is the exporter for us. If Pakistan wants to be a importer of our goods then I would say that we can export the same goods to a lot many other economies.

Bottomline: Till there is peace, dismantling of terrorist camps and hate mongers like Kassab and HS born and bred in Pakistan there should be no trade.
 
I second that... Cant expect sweets from people who back-stabbed us many times. How can we ever forget Kargil? How can we ever forget that when our Prime Minister boarded a bus to talk of peace their PM and General was preparing to take lives of many Indians.

We should not stop trading with Pakistan or improving our relationship but I guess we should use the iron fist wherever necessary. We should make them negotiate on our terms, to trade on our wishes and not always as equals . We should learn from US on how to dominate a nation. We should create channels where we can hurt them if they do anything against our interests.

Give Pakistan all the goodies but make them so dependent that if there is a terror attack in India then the whole of Pakistan pays the price
.

The highlighted part in your post shows your ignorance. You guys like to give examples of US and Israel but dont you get it India is no USA and nor is Pakistan Iraq. Similarly India is no Israel and Pakistan Palestine. Had this been the case we would have seen India over running Pakistan long ago and hurt us in ways surpassing that of both the US and Israel( after all what can a muslim expect from a hindu bania). And one more thing if India wasnt dying for trade with Pakistan it wouldnt have given Pakistan the status of MFN. Do you think it has happened in all goodness......give me a break.
You guys are so desperate in trying to get land access from Pakistan to Afghanistan and yet have the audacity to talk trash. Your high talks make us laugh. You dont wanna trade with Pakistan why dont you guys take your MFN status back and stuck it where the sun does not shine.
 
How many times it was us the Indians took a step forward to end the so called rivalry? negativity? to build trust and blah blah?

How many times?

What we got back each time?



You had that peace walk with Mahesh Bhatt or you are a die hard follower of Arundhati Roy and Kuldeep Nayyar?

I don't want to get personal but we divided them into two?

I don't want to divert the topic but you sir need to get the history straight. PM me or open another thread and I will be obliged to introduce some facts to you.



Have they given?

Pakistan should have given MFN the very next day India declared them as MFN.


Only time will prove you wrong. It has been proving people like you wrong since 1947.

Now i have shared benefits of Pakistan with ASQ...Let me share the benefits of India...



What is not achieved in past 60 years will be achieved after this deal? People had same thoughts in 1999 (Lahore Bus service).



We don't need Pakistan for that. We are developing Chabbahar port in Iran and developing highways/railways in Iran and Afghanistan to access Central Asia.

I would rather send my goods through this route rathen than being looted/burn/exploded in Pakistan on route.



Whats the jobless percentage in India? We are no longer in pre 1992 era. We don't need trade with Pakistan to create jobs in India.


For Pakistan. Not for us.



Not at the cost of my countrymen. Our armed forces.



Not in Kargil. But yes indirectly in Kashmir during 80's. The family member whose father sacrifised his life for nation is an ex member of this forum banned during ego clashes of Cheena and Yahya (Sharjeel) in very early days of this forum. (2005)



If this trade or MFN things going to bring peace I am not against it. But it is not going to happen. 60+ years have witnessed it. Nothing is going to change overnight.


Has China waged a Jihad on your country for the disputed land? Has China murdered and raped innocent civilians of your country? Has China asked a particular religion (hindus in kashmir for instance) to leave the disputed land?

Has China ever tried to block the Kailsh Sarovar Yatra? Has the Chiense ever killed the innocent pilgirms going to Kailash Yatra?


This so called peace experiment is going to come at the cost of our men. I am very much against it.

Those men and women serving the nation are not your goats to whom you can sacrifice in the name of peace.

GB

GB instead of acting like an internet warrior and talking all high and mighty, why dont you put your money where your mouth is and influence your company to stop doing business with Pakistan or if not the least you can do is quit such Indian companies which do business with Pakistan. Lead by an example and not words.
 
MFN status to India beneficial for Pakistan

By Sajid Chaudhry


ISLAMABAD: Local and international trade research studies have revealed that restoration of normal trade relations or grant of the Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India could be beneficial to Pakistan in broader terms.

A presentation, made to the International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) Mission on Pak-India Trade Relations last week, analysed negative and positive aspects of the issue and summed up that perceptions against grant of the MFN status to India were based on fears, a government official told Daily Times on Monday.

The official said that it has been a consistent stand of the government that resolution of the core issue of Kashmir is a cornerstone of Pakistan’s policy for India. The Ministry of Commerce, however, could not make any comments on this aspect of foreign policy, he added.

The arguments in favour of grant of the MFN status to India are as follow:

— Pakistan needs to caste aside its defensive approach viz-a-viz trade with India and should engage India commercially with confidence. The fears are exaggerated and benefits to the economy in the long run will far outweigh the costs.

— Consumers will benefit form liberalization of the trade regime with India because some cheaper Indian products will be available to them.

— The local manufacturers, due to competition with Indian products will be required to be more efficient, which will make them competitive even in the international market, boosting our exports in the long run.

— The manufacturing sector will be able to procure raw materials and intermediary goods form India at lower prices, which may enable them to compete with India in its domestic market as well as internationally.

— A liberalized trade regime with India will be appreciated by world buyers and will make it easier for Pakistan to join important regional blocs such as Bangkok Agreement and ASEAN. India has been blocking our entry into regional trading arrangements with the argument that Pakistan has not granted the MFN status to India.

The views against grant of the full MFN status to India are as follows:

— India is a large economy with exportable surplus and diversified products. The export of textile is only 20 percent of the global Indian exports where 60-70 percent of our exports consist of textiles. India will export a large number of items, including consumer goods, which will disrupt the local industry, resulting in loss of jobs and an increase in poverty.

— In case the manufacturers of Pakistan make India their major source of supply of raw materials, it might give India room to manipulate supplies at critical times, resulting in commercial as well as a strategic damage.

— The balance of trade will heavily tilt in favour of India. Although World Bank studies indicate that the global balance of trade of Pakistan will be positively affected (for the import of cheaper raw materials), it has to be seen whether the balance of trade in favour India will be acceptable optically.

— India provides subsidies to agriculture as well as to many other exported items, resulting in unfair trade practices, which will enable the Indian goods to have a larger market share in Pakistan.

An analysis of the arguments reveals that the perceptions against grant of the MFN status to India are based on fears. The analysis of the arguments can be summed up as follows:

— Grant of the MFN status to India may simultaneously be coupled with effectively putting in place unfair trade remedial measures to combat dumping, subsidies on exports and certain surge in imports, causing or threatening to cause serious injury to local manufacturers/producers. International laws of these aspects are already in place, which may be activated by the National Tariff Commission (NTC) to enable the government to take appropriate measures promptly.

— Major manufacturers always keep alternative sources of supplies and it is not likely that India will become the only source of the supply of raw materials and intermediary goods to the local industry.

— The balance of trade may not be viewed only in the context of bilateral trade with India. In case our global balance of trade becomes more favourable, Pakistan will be a gainer. The argument of the World Bank in this respect has substantial merits.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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