Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[batmannow]

Sir I think I may be wrong, but are you suggesting that PAF could go for Gripen in case the Block-52+ deal falls through? If so, then why risk it with South Africa if PAF can go directly to Sweden and acquire Gripen NG with a European engine?

Secondly, on the case of J-11B. Say the Block-52+ deal fails, given the acquisition of FC-20, would it not be more feasible to acquire J-11B due to engine commonality of WS-10A? I also read that the Chinese use uniform maintenance infrastructure similar to the West - i.e. not specificied centres like Russia.

In case the F-16 deal fails completely, I think the PAF will either focus entirely on the FC-20 & JF-17 combo, or perhaps procure J-11B or J-11BS.

Mark Sien; sir
cool input, thanks a lot man!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I have been a Part of project falcon and form my point, I don't think we will ever see a block-52and Guys that's my opinion. But if we get them we will use the option of getting more of them which we have, If the New White House staff decides no we are not giving you then we have 2 options One is China and the other is South Africa.
Getting 4 gen from China is easy but you have to take under consideration it will take millions of $$ to train atleast 200 Airmen and test pilots and its time consuming. If we go for South Africa the Gs , the fighter is simple and is suited for every task Multi-Role you can change its Amo and config within 7 min tops, But that deal will have problems because they are using uncle SAM's engines.
Right now I am only scared of 1 country. India knows are capabilities so does Nato. But the day Israelis get there hands on JSF weather they are 5 to 10 they will make a straight run for Iran and them Pindi. We wount know what came and hit us till we get eyes on them. They have tried it twice and both time hightec equipment didn't work it was a junior Flt Lt who saw them and informed KSA PAK embassy. Second time they were flying so low that the radar didn't see them 50 F-16s in one straight line, Our guys at Tabuk saw them, it took us a total of 6 min for ADA 52 planes in air an another 15 to put 125 fighters in Air, Sat saw it and told the IAF watch out they already know you are coming they were 15 miles aways when they turned back. I remember all 5 ADA fighters who were placed in Chaklala were son's of all 5 High Ranking Officers and one of them was mine and we 5 went and saw them in ADA met them and said good bye when I turned around my son said Dad If we take off you will know but we 5 have decided that we will not come back. The Army general God Bless his Soul said look at the bright side you 5 will live for ever.

sir with all due respect you are still the best poster in defence.pk but sometimes your posts makes other person

Their is no dough that US has been bullying us but at the same time they dont want to pis-s us off so so much that we become another Iran though with NUKES! i think F-16, P-3, frigates, armaments, etc will all eventually reach our home one day. Bush has already approved these orders so will Mcain if he wins (very likely) and as for Obama he just acting like a "anti-islamic" guy to get votes but i believe he will be very different if he is elected. the last thing the US would wanna lose in asia specially this region is lose pakistan. they will try their best to keep our top military brass happy but at the same time restrict our capability to get their things done. like they say. F-16 is a symbolic figure to pakistan and if they lose this specially pak top brass will lose trust in US and eventually some one will step up and kick the puppet democrazy government out and take over. and we do know that every single pakistani do not like US or their policy and wants them out so thats what this new military dictatorship could offer to the awam and have all time big support. of course we cant be the starters as we cant afford this.

how is SA gonna offer PAF grippens when they dont have enough for themself? will the west "who has huge influence" on RSA allow their weapon to be resold to Pakistan?
As for Israel attacking our Nuke facility well do you think that all of our 40-60+ nukes are pilled up in one or 2-3 location and Israel can wipe out our Nuke capability in one strike? yes we are on the Israeli hit list but Iran is first as they are on the way to acquire Nuke weapon and if they are attacked then i am sure our ICBM, cruise missiles or low profile boats will be ready to deliver nukes in Israel if we are ever to be attached.

sir you are just trying to scare us.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I never expected block52... And even if they will be a problem cause they can control us. I would expect to pass it and go straight to other options.

either the PAF air staff have become blind with the US equipment obsession or we are just assuming that block-52 could come with strings attached. well 4 F-16s and going through MLU as we speak... with of curse PAF personal presence and eventually next year MLU will be done in pakistan with TAI assistances. we are just releasing our anger on F-16s.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

A major advantage the J11B has over the SU27SK is it's impressive A2G capability. It's a nice match for our air force no doubt, but China is having cost and training issues related to this platform. Why I don't know, but it's a big step for China to make this on their own, a plane that can compete with the latest F-15's. China is also developing J11C naval variant btw.

 

[Imran Khan]

you forget mr.23 marrch they will say story of 80s not that time pakistan was same as today. and remember in 80s there is no evedence that pakistan have ready nukes.they wan't hit kahuta that they wil stop pakistan to make nukes.never they try thats after our tests in 1998.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

you forget mr.23 marrch they will say story of 80s not that time pakistan was same as today. and remember in 80s there is no evedence that pakistan have ready nukes.they wan't hit kahuta that they wil stop pakistan to make nukes.never they try thats after our tests in 1998.

What is Israel gonna achieve from destroying our Nuclear facility/ies in long term? as i said. i dont think our nuke weapons are located in one or two facilities. you do know the consequence for attacking pak NFs? even in 1980s PAF planned to attack back at Israel if they are to be attacked. isreal can be wiped out of map with one or 2 nukes .

 

[batmannow]

A major advantage the J11B has over the SU27SK is it's impressive A2G capability. It's a nice match for our air force no doubt, but China is having cost and training issues related to this platform. Why I don't know, but it's a big step for China to make this on their own, a plane that can compete with the latest F-15's. China is also developing J11C naval variant btw.

i guss , real logical thing to do is to mix up our current inventry, with 60 J11b's, 60 J-10's and the remaining F-16's , i think, it can be a deadly combination.
what we, need to understand here is, our needs to our air defences in comming future, if our policy makers think's , USA will give us more F-16's then , i would be thinking of thier madness or guss crouption, the kickbacks they can get from the F-16's deal.
J-11B's are not a medium tech. aircrafts they have enough qualities to be in our inventry, but the real problum is the obssesion of F-16's in pakistani nation, & its became our weekness, which uncle sam uses often.

J-11B

In mid-2002, SAC revealed its intention to build an upgraded multirole version of the J-11 by revealing a mock-up aircraft carrying various types of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. Russian sources also confirmed that SAC was pursuing a multirole variant of the J-11 with much greater Chinese-made content. This variant was designated J-11B.

An indigenous multifunctional pulse-Doppler fire-control radar reportedly capable of tracking 6~8 targets and engaging 4 of them simultaneously;
An indigenous digital flight-control system;
A Chinese copy of the Russian OEPS-27 electro-optic search and tracking system;
A strapdown INS/GPS navigation system;
A ‘glass’ cockpit featuring four colour multifunctional displays (MFD) and a wide-angle holographic head-up display (HUD);
The aircraft could carry the Chinese-made PL-8 IR-homing SRAAM and PL-12 (SD-10) active radar-homing MRAAM for air-to-air combat. While the PLAAF currently has the capability for two-target engagement using the Su-27/-30 and R-77 (AA-12 Adder) combination, successful integration of the PL-12 on the J-11B would likely provide a genuine multi-target engagement capability. The J-11B is also expected to have enhanced air-to-surface attack capabilities with the indigenous precision strike ammunitions such as LT-2 laser-guided bomb, the LS-6 precision-guided glide bomb, the YJ-91 (Kh-31P) anti-radiation missile, and the KD-88 air-to-surface missile.

During the 6th Zhuhai Air Show held between 31 October and 5 November 2006, China revealed first official details about the indigenously developed WS-10A ‘Tai Hang’ turbofan engine. The engine had already been successfully tested on a modified Su-27K fighter and possibly on some J-11 airframes too. The engine is understood to be similar to the Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31F turbofan engine in both technology and performance. However, it is unclear whether the WS-10A has already been fitted on the ‘indigenised’ variant of the J-11.

look at some of details, that is good enough for us,about traning we, have to do this, just like we did with f-16's, i am , very sure about the training , that our airmans, technical staff could do it in the shotest given time.
but all this , & thats , if's are the basic hurdlles which were put in by some vested intersts, for vested reasons are stopping pakistan airforce, to disinttegrete itself from the unloyal, untrusted, & back sttabbing uncle sam.
i am 100% sure of the fact, that once the so called "war on terror" is over, there will be no one thinking about us, same thing , uncle sam did with us in 80's.

 

[Black Stone]

What is Israel gonna achieve from destroying our Nuclear facility/ies in long term? as i said. i dont think our nuke weapons are located in one or two facilities. you do know the consequence for attacking pak NFs? even in 1980s PAF planned to attack back at Israel if they are to be attacked. isreal can be wiped out of map with one or 2 nukes .

I don't think Israel would attack a nuclear armed nation like Pakistan. However, they would have counter measures or some sort of plan should Pakistan threaten Israel.

The possibility of Pakistan attacking Israel or vice versa is very unlikely since both are nuclear armed and a conflict between the two brings no benefits.

Possibly Israel would get wiped off the map by Pakistan, but at the same time, Pakistan will also be destroyed. Is it worth it?.

 

[batmannow]

I don't think Israel would attack a nuclear armed nation like Pakistan. However, they would have counter measures or some sort of plan should Pakistan threaten Israel.

The possibility of Pakistan attacking Israel or vice versa is very unlikely since both are nuclear armed and a conflict between the two brings no benefits.

Possibly Israel would get wiped off the map by Pakistan, but at the same time, Pakistan will also be destroyed. Is it worth it?.

Black Stone; dear
its "Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)", plz keep in mind.
thanks

 

[Black Stone]

Black Stone; dear
its "Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)", plz keep in mind.
thanks

batmannow dear, I am fully aware about the title of the thread. However, I was responding to 23march's post and in turn his response to Imran Khan.

It is interesting how you only direct this post to me. Is it because I am an American or are you turning a blind eye to your Pakistani brothers?.

 

[batmannow]

batmannow dear, I am fully aware about the title of the thread. However, I was responding to 23march's post and in turn his response to Imran Khan.

It is interesting how you only direct this post to me. Is it because I am an American or are you turning a blind eye to your Pakistani brothers?.

Black Stone; sir
me & my, pakistani brother's never thought, about how you think but pushing you on the subject, i was just trying to bring something good from you.
i admir, your contributions, and realy wana see you exploring more on the issue, plz belive it we (pakistanis) are not , nationalstic peoples.
thanks

 

[Black Stone]

Black Stone; sir
me & my, pakistani brother's never thought, about how you think but pushing you on the subject, i was just trying to bring something good from you.
i admir, your contributions, and realy wana see you exploring more on the issue, plz belive it we (pakistanis) are not , nationalstic peoples.
thanks

What did you mean by "bring something good from you" Did you mean my last post is bad? please clarify.

Being nationalistic is not a problem, just don't be blind about it.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Black Stone; dear
its "Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)", plz keep in mind.
thanks

oh come on bro. this thread is useless anyways.. this china offering J-11 to PAF is not official yet but it only exists in internet though it could be realistic option if PAF fails to get F-16s.

It is interesting how you only direct this post to me. Is it because I am an American or are you turning a blind eye to your Pakistani brothers?.

no sir this is not the case.

Possibly Israel would get wiped off the map by Pakistan, but at the same time, Pakistan will also be destroyed. Is it worth it?.

Is it worth it? no it is not. Muslims just wanna live peacefully but you may find some extremists who wont agree with me.

 

[Black Stone]

Is it worth it? no it is not. Muslims just wanna live peacefully but you may find some extremists who wont agree with me.

That's what the Israeli's want, to peacefully co-exist with all. That is natural, I am sure that there are some extremists in Israel asell.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That's what the Israeli's want, to peacefully co-exist with all. That is natural, I am sure that there are some extremists in Israel asell.

not so easy my friend. no one can "peacefully" co-exist with the occupants.. after all the British wanted to live "peacefully" in america but the civilians resisted and kicked them out of their land and oh one of your leader at that time approved the killing of british soldiers through "terrorism" if necessary.