Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[batmannow]

i reapeat same before so many times but my lovely batmanow never accept even our respected sir murad clear that j11 will be in paf if we never get f-16. are you agree batmanow

imran khan; sir
i respect, evry one seniors here, spacialy! sir murad .
but, there are no (IF's), in every great nations history, there are only 2 words in great nations dictionries SHOULD or SHOULDNOT.
I HOPE, YOU WILL GET MY POINT.

 

[TOPGUN]

I lost ya batmannow!! kahar still with ya watever it is lol!!!!!!

 

[batmannow]

I lost ya batmannow!! kahar still with ya watever it is lol!!!!!!

i give it up,

 

[Imran Khan]

i give it up,

i thing you give it down batmanow
so now whats your think abut j11

 

[p2prada]

You are getting your F-16s right. So, why the tension??

 

[TOPGUN]

You are getting your F-16s right. So, why the tension??

P2Parada plzz read before responding !! then u will be able to tell why all the noise and tension thx boss!!!! if not let me kow i will tell u why !

 

[Kharian_Beast]

I personally think this thread should have died a long time ago, because no one has till now established if Pakistan was indeed offered the J11 or if anyone is even considering it realistically. I really doubt anyone is considering it realistically, they are still stuck in the 80s.

 

[HAIDER]

Most recent update from Indian newspaper...

MOSCOW: Russia has threatened to sue China for copying its Sukhoi Su-27SK fighters and its pirate production
for export to Pakistan and other
Third World countries at much cheaper prices, a leading Russian daily reported
on Tuesday.

"Russia has officially notified China that the production of J11 (fighters), a copy of Russian Su-27SK, violates inter-governmental agreements. Moscow has vowed to launch legal procedures for the protection of its intellectual property," Nezavisimaya Gazeta said.

Under the 1996 agreement, China had the right to assemble 200 Su-27SK fighters under the local brand J11. However, after receiving 95 kits and 180 AL31F engines, Beijing in November 2004 notified Moscow that it no more needs Russian kits for the assembly of Su-27 fighters, saying that combat capabilities of the fighter were very limited and further action would be taken after analysis of production experience by Chinese experts, the paper said.

"It seems the analysis was successful, as in the beginning of 2007, China unveiled its 'development' — J11B fighter, suspiciously reminding of Su-27," the daily reported.

Now, Moscow seems to have completely stopped the deliveries of engines. The onboard Zhuk radar is one of the problem modules for China as from the very beginning it was supplied with limited combat capabilities, the report said.

"What irks Moscow most is that the 1996 agreement did not allow the re-export of J11 to third countries, but now Beijing is busy in the search for the markets of this fighter.

First in the queue is Pakistan," it said, adding China plans to build 5,000 J11B fighters. Given their cheap price, J11B fighters may wipe out not only Su-27, but also MiG-29 and US F-16 from the Third World markets.


Sukhoi piracy: Russia threatens to sue China-Europe-World-The Times of India

There is heat in this Pakistan and J11b news.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Most recent update from Indian newspaper...

MOSCOW: Russia has threatened to sue China for copying its Sukhoi Su-27SK fighters and its pirate production
for export to Pakistan and other
Third World countries at much cheaper prices, a leading Russian daily reported
on Tuesday.

"Russia has officially notified China that the production of J11 (fighters), a copy of Russian Su-27SK, violates inter-governmental agreements. Moscow has vowed to launch legal procedures for the protection of its intellectual property," Nezavisimaya Gazeta said.

Under the 1996 agreement, China had the right to assemble 200 Su-27SK fighters under the local brand J11. However, after receiving 95 kits and 180 AL31F engines, Beijing in November 2004 notified Moscow that it no more needs Russian kits for the assembly of Su-27 fighters, saying that combat capabilities of the fighter were very limited and further action would be taken after analysis of production experience by Chinese experts, the paper said.

"It seems the analysis was successful, as in the beginning of 2007, China unveiled its 'development' — J11B fighter, suspiciously reminding of Su-27," the daily reported.

Now, Moscow seems to have completely stopped the deliveries of engines. The onboard Zhuk radar is one of the problem modules for China as from the very beginning it was supplied with limited combat capabilities, the report said.

"What irks Moscow most is that the 1996 agreement did not allow the re-export of J11 to third countries, but now Beijing is busy in the search for the markets of this fighter.

First in the queue is Pakistan," it said, adding China plans to build 5,000 J11B fighters. Given their cheap price, J11B fighters may wipe out not only Su-27, but also MiG-29 and US F-16 from the Third World markets.


Sukhoi piracy: Russia threatens to sue China-Europe-World-The Times of India

There is heat in this Pakistan and J11b news.

I heard Sukhoi dropped the lawsuit. This article is amateurish.

 

[Muradk]

I have been a Part of project falcon and from my point, I don't think we will ever see a block-52and Guys that's my opinion. But if we get them we will use the option of getting more of them which we have, If the New White House staff decides no we are not giving you then we have 2 options One is China and the other is South Africa.
Getting 4 gen from China is easy but you have to take under consideration it will take millions of $$ to train atleast 200 Airmen and test pilots and its time consuming. If we go for South Africa the Gs , the fighter is simple and is suited for every task Multi-Role you can change its Amo and config within 7 min tops, But that deal will have problems because they are using uncle SAM's engines.
Right now I am only scared of 1 country. India knows are capabilities so does Nato. But the day Israelis get there hands on JSF weather they are 5 to 10 they will make a straight run for Iran and them Pindi. We wount know what came and hit us till we get eyes on them. They have tried it twice and both time hightec equipment didn't work it was a junior Flt Lt who saw them and informed KSA PAK embassy. Second time they were flying so low that the radar didn't see them 50 F-16s in one straight line, Our guys at Tabuk saw them, it took us a total of 6 min for ADA 52 planes in air an another 15 to put 125 fighters in Air, Sat saw it and told the IAF watch out they already know you are coming they were 15 miles aways when they turned back. I remember all 5 ADA fighters who were placed in Chaklala were son's of all 5 High Ranking Officers and one of them was mine and we 5 went and saw them in ADA met them and said good bye when I turned around my son said Dad If we take off you will know but we 5 have decided that we will not come back. The Army general God Bless his Soul said look at the bright side you 5 will live for ever.

 

[Imran Khan]

graet sir its realy a best time whn i read you thanks very much for this post

 

[Munir]

The only way to counter it will be 24/7 defence against three nations. The only way to win it is to threaten massive attack if attacked. The fact they will try is not unlogical. We only expect that we are not defended by our politicians but by our true hero's.

I never expected block52... And even if they will be a problem cause they can control us. I would expect to pass it and go straight to other options.

p.s south africa=sweden's gripen.

 

[batmannow]

I have been a Part of project falcon and form my point, I don't think we will ever see a block-52and Guys that's my opinion. But if we get them we will use the option of getting more of them which we have, If the New White House staff decides no we are not giving you then we have 2 options One is China and the other is South Africa.
Getting 4 gen from China is easy but you have to take under consideration it will take millions of $$ to train atleast 200 Airmen and test pilots and its time consuming. If we go for South Africa the Gs , the fighter is simple and is suited for every task Multi-Role you can change its Amo and config within 7 min tops, But that deal will have problems because they are using uncle SAM's engines.
Right now I am only scared of 1 country. India knows are capabilities so does Nato. But the day Israelis get there hands on JSF weather they are 5 to 10 they will make a straight run for Iran and them Pindi. We wount know what came and hit us till we get eyes on them. They have tried it twice and both time hightec equipment didn't work it was a junior Flt Lt who saw them and informed KSA PAK embassy. Second time they were flying so low that the radar didn't see them 50 F-16s in one straight line, Our guys at Tabuk saw them, it took us a total of 6 min for ADA 52 planes in air an another 15 to put 125 fighters in Air, Sat saw it and told the IAF watch out they already know you are coming they were 15 miles aways when they turned back. I remember all 5 ADA fighters who were placed in Chaklala were son's of all 5 High Ranking Officers and one of them was mine and we 5 went and saw them in ADA met them and said good bye when I turned around my son said Dad If we take off you will know but we 5 have decided that we will not come back. The Army general God Bless his Soul said look at the bright side you 5 will live for ever.

Dear & hon.Muradk; sir
you see, i got it by pushing you in emotions?
Thats call pakistanism?
love you, love your son, love every pakistani soul , who got same sprit.
just wana, elobrate a bit, plz take out uncle sam, from our every defence policy.
i guss, it will not take so long, to become be trained on 4 gen from China or it can be just 1 time to do , so consider the price of a bird from US or even from SOUTH AFRICA, guss surly ,it will be more expensive thn of 4 gen from China , with 200 Airmen and test pilots ! but plz look on ther bright side , we got to this some day!
so why not now?
to be an enemy of USA could be dangerous, but being a friend of USA is fatal?

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Can I ask when South Africa became a viable option for a front line fighter? Gripen through a 3rd party? Really?

 

[Quwa]

I have been a Part of project falcon and form my point, I don't think we will ever see a block-52and Guys that's my opinion. But if we get them we will use the option of getting more of them which we have, If the New White House staff decides no we are not giving you then we have 2 options One is China and the other is South Africa.
Getting 4 gen from China is easy but you have to take under consideration it will take millions of $$ to train atleast 200 Airmen and test pilots and its time consuming. If we go for South Africa the Gs , the fighter is simple and is suited for every task Multi-Role you can change its Amo and config within 7 min tops, But that deal will have problems because they are using uncle SAM's engines.

Sir I think I may be wrong, but are you suggesting that PAF could go for Gripen in case the Block-52+ deal falls through? If so, then why risk it with South Africa if PAF can go directly to Sweden and acquire Gripen NG with a European engine?

Secondly, on the case of J-11B. Say the Block-52+ deal fails, given the acquisition of FC-20, would it not be more feasible to acquire J-11B due to engine commonality of WS-10A? I also read that the Chinese use uniform maintenance infrastructure similar to the West - i.e. not specificied centres like Russia.

In case the F-16 deal fails completely, I think the PAF will either focus entirely on the FC-20 & JF-17 combo, or perhaps procure J-11B or J-11BS.