Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Chak Bamu]

As long as we maintain a mainly defensive posture and are not seen as aggressors, we need not fear sanctions. We are useful. Why would USA antagonize us? US diplomats have been at pain to point out that US-Pakistan vs Us-India is not a zero sum affair.

As long as we develop our institutions and improve transparency and implement a decision making process that is seen as sane and based on our national interests and not paranoia, we need not fear much. We have no option - we have to overhaul our security perspective - slowly but surely.

As long as we do this, we may get more F-16s, but not at the cost of curtailing JF-17 program. The strategic dimension of JF-17 can not be ignored. A mixed package of JF-17 and F-16s would be a formidable formation esp. with AWACS support.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Hello to my fellow Pakistanis

Does anyone of you know how many MiG-29s does PAF have?

 

[fatman17]

Hello to my fellow Pakistanis

Does anyone of you know how many MiG-29s does PAF have?

.....none, nil, nada,zilch....nyet...

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

.....none, nil, nada,zilch....nyet...

I thought so. Just wanted to make sure

 

[muse]

As long as we maintain a mainly defensive posture and are not seen as aggressors, we need not fear sanctions. We are useful. Why would USA antagonize us? US diplomats have been at pain to point out that US-Pakistan vs Us-India is not a zero sum affair.

As long as we develop our institutions and improve transparency and implement a decision making process that is seen as sane and based on our national interests and not paranoia, we need not fear much. We have no option - we have to overhaul our security perspective - slowly but surely.

As long as we do this, we may get more F-16s, but not at the cost of curtailing JF-17 program. The strategic dimension of JF-17 can not be ignored. A mixed package of JF-17 and F-16s would be a formidable formation esp. with AWACS support.

Please reconsider - If indeed we need not worry about the US and if indeed we need not worry about the Indian, WHY then do we need more F16?

We seek to build our Air Force so that it can provide a measure of security to the US???????

It seems to me that some of us prefer more pats on the back and shaabash then building our independence from users such as the US

 

[Armstrong]

.....none, nil, nada,zilch....nyet...

Waisee have our boys ever flown the Mig 29s ? Just to get a feel of what we could, potentially, be against at ?

 

[fatman17]

old article but good info...



Pakistan Air Force refocuses on militant threat;


Author:Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent, Sargodha

Last posted:2009-09-10


Key Points
• Pakistan Air Force training is increasingly focused on tackling militant threats, rather than on countering India.

• The PAF is keen to demonstrate that it is playing a leading role in the Pakistani military's war against the Taliban.


The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) used F-16, F-7 and Mirage fighter aircraft to conduct bombing missions against simulated militant targets in the country's remote Thal desert on 5 September.

On the same day, General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, the chief of army staff, was invited by Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, chief of the air staff, to receive first-hand briefings on changes within the PAF, which is keen to demonstrate its transition from a force focused on countering India to a central player in the country's campaign against Taliban militants in its northern regions.

Gen Kiyani and ACM Qamar also visited the PAF's Combat Commander's School, Pakistan's 'Top Gun' pilot training centre, at Mushaf Air Base in Sargodha, in an event also attended by this correspondent.

The fighters' display in the Thal desert was the high point of the PAF's 'Saffron Bandit' exercise: a regular event once focused on the PAF's operational preparedness against India but now repurposed to prepare for action against domestic militants.

According to senior PAF officers, 70 to 80 per cent of the activities in 'Saffron Bandit' have been geared towards anti-militant operations in an indication of how much the PAF has shifted focus.

The event at Sargodha was also used by the PAF to showcase its Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI) system - an indigenously built system developed over the past five to six years, which enables the PAF to record missions or view them in real time from a range of angles.

"In the past, we used to give feedback in debriefing after flight," said Air Commodore Tariq Yazdani, the PAF's chief spokesman. "This ACMI is way more advanced than what we had before. It is a very useful training aid."

The PAF also opened up its general mission control Centre (GMCC) at Sargodha, where it has successfully synchronized its high-level and low-level radars to make them viewable on a single screen. PAF officers said the GMCC had also been indigenously developed, and at a fraction of the cost of similar, foreign equipment.


JDW

 

[krash]

Waisee have our boys ever flown the Mig 29s ? Just to get a feel of what we could, potentially, be against at ?

Well, we did train the Iraqis for quite a while before Desert Storm and they had a few Mig-29s. This is the most probable scenario I can think of.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Please reconsider - If indeed we need not worry about the US and if indeed we need not worry about the Indian, WHY then do we need more F16?

We seek to build our Air Force so that it can provide a measure of security to the US???????

It seems to me that some of us prefer more pats on the back and shaabash then building our independence from users such as the US

OK, I have reconsidered but I would say that same thing again. You have misconstrued my reference about being useful. USA can not ignore us nor can they antagonize us by openly siding with India.

I would not mind more F-16s provided it is an option that A) Does not threaten JF-17 program. B) Provides best bang for the buck. C) Does not induce complacency.

Our problem is with countering India and making sure that they know the cost of an adventure. US knows this and as long as we are not aggressors, we need not worry overmuch about what USA would or would not do with India. US-India relations have dimensions other than the Pakistan vs India rivalry. If anything US influence over India can be handy for us at times, particularly now when we need to rebuild our economy and must pursue peace with our neighbors to provide confidence to would-be investors.

The primary threats to Pakistan right now are internal. The India vs Pakistan games ought not distract us from this fact.

 

[muse]

OK, I have reconsidered but I would say that same thing again. You have misconstrued my reference about being useful. USA can not ignore us nor can they antagonize us by openly siding with India.

I would not mind more F-16s provided it is an option that A) Does not threaten JF-17 program. B) Provides best bang for the buck. C) Does not induce complacency.

In US Air Force they say "Aim High" -- Do you think there is merit in this??, If yes, do you think that's what going for more F16 would be?

By the way, have you noticed that no supporter of the F16 has suggested any kind of provision that have give us greater confidence that even if sanctions regime is employed again, that would not, practically, mean that the F16 are grounded, I find that interesting - You see the argument that we have had the ships for 40 years and know how to operate it, I do wonder if in the 30 years we have made this ship sanction proof by learning more about making parts that need to be replace very often

 

[Chak Bamu]

Last bout of sanctions happened when USA was the sole super power. It wanted to dissuade Pakistan from our nuclear pursuit.

1. We are seeing an emergence of a multi-polar world and we have our place in it. We can not be ignored.
2. USA after having downgraded its ties with Pakistan regretted some of its decisions.
3. PAF was able to keep our F-16s flying.
4. With the wind-up of Afghanistan venture, there would be fewer friction points between USA & Pakistan.
5. Today, F-16 does not represent what it did back then.
6. What issues could cause another round of sanctions? I can not say.
7. Though it might be too much to expect right now, but we do have better industrial set up today.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Any plan that depends on external factors is a bad plan. Security plan should be as you are all alone against all odds.

OK, I have reconsidered but I would say that same thing again. You have misconstrued my reference about being useful. USA can not ignore us nor can they antagonize us by openly siding with India.

 

[Thorough Pro]

One can close his eyes and dream whatever he wants but that does not change the reality a little bit.

Last bout of sanctions happened when USA was the sole super power. It wanted to dissuade Pakistan from our nuclear pursuit.

As you mention below, its a multi-polar world now, so what poles have helped Iran from US sanctions for the same reason? or what did Russia did to help Syria despite wests direct involvement in supporting terrorist activities against Syrian state?

1. We are seeing an emergence of a multi-polar world and we have our place in it. We can not be ignored.

Self delusions! Despite being key alley how many times US withheld coalition support payments? and what would you call naked terrorism and violation of our sovereignty through drone strikes?

2. USA after having downgraded its ties with Pakistan regretted some of its decisions.

Oh yeah!

3. PAF was able to keep our F-16s flying.

Keep them flying in peace time with flying hours cut down to maybe 50% or less, would that help in case of a full blown war with india?

4. With the wind-up of Afghanistan venture, there would be fewer friction points between USA & Pakistan.

When the imposed sanctions for the first time, there was hardly any bone on contention between Pakistan and USA.

5. Today, F-16 does not represent what it did back then.

F-16, Mirage III/V, F7, JF-17 (still not fully operationalized to be effective in a major war), which one represents what for PAF? you chose.

6. What issues could cause another round of sanctions? I can not say.

Surrender your Nukes! Hand over Dr. AQ Khan or Dr. Samar Mubarak, Why did you hide UBL in Abbotabad, excuses are million a dime if the intention is there. What excuse did they have to destroy Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya or Syria or sanction Iran? Get down from your high horse, be a paranoid realist if you want to survive.

7. Though it might be too much to expect right now, but we do have better industrial set up today.

For what? how about economy or law and order or terrorism?

 

[Thorough Pro]

How delusional one can be? Are you talking about the same support it provided during 1971 against india, a strong USSR alley?
Do you even know US interest in Baluchistan and its support to BLA? both financial, political and military. Do you know Baitullah Mehsud who formed TTP was released from Guantanamo bay prison specifically for the purpose.

It never hurts to be a delusional optimist, you can always cry later on.

No Sir, given our nuclear deterrent, it is OUR policy that the PAF has a mainly defensive time-limited posture. We do not need anyone's support to do that. And if USA wants to bring us down, it will be economically, not by refusing to provide support to us against India.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Any plan that depends on external factors is a bad plan. Security plan should be as you are all alone against all odds.

That defines paranoia. Feel free to indulge. This pit has no bottom.