Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Windjammer]

As the AFM article states, albeit a two seater Thunder is being planned but considering the PAF flew the F-6 and F-7 for a number of years before a twin stick version appeared, the appearance of a JF-17B is some times away.
In any case, even without the dual seater, two squadrons are already operational, hence IMO, the future prospect may be for a specialised role Thunder.

 

[fatman17]

As the AFM article states, albeit a two seater Thunder is being planned but considering the PAF flew the F-6 and F-7 for a number of years before a twin stick version appeared, the appearance of a JF-17B is some times away.
In any case, even without the dual seater, two squadrons are already operational, hence IMO, the future prospect may be for a specialised role Thunder.

AFM may be right but since the PAF has a ambitious plan to induct anywhere from 150 to 250 a/c of different 'blocks' and roles, a dual-seater trainer becomes very critical in ramping up the training of new as well as senior pilots to the type. F-6, F-7 were never inducted in the numbers the PAF has planned for the JFT - all we need is a AJT, it dosnt have to be JF-17B.

this is how i feel. i'm not a pilot but just a retired 'ground digger'!

 

[monitor]

Of course Pakistan should manufacture a duel sit variant for its jf-17 so that it can serve those air force who would like to get a trainer cum light attack aircraft . this also brighten the export potential of JF-17 significantly and ultimately reduce the production cost per aircraft as production will increase .

 

[Najam Khan]

As the AFM article states, albeit a two seater Thunder is being planned but considering the PAF flew the F-6 and F-7 for a number of years before a twin stick version appeared, the appearance of a JF-17B is some times away.

Exaclty my point, instead of utilizing energy in twin seat PAC/CAC wants to build a good fighter first. I remember the first air-to-ground test of Thunders in Pakistan was done at Thal(in mid 2008), cannons were tested...a pilot once told me that we want to increase bullets capicity...it was 150 back in 2008,, iam sure it has been increased now.

The Thunder's dogfights with F16s, helped T&E pilots in understanding the limitations of a/c in real world scenario...though two-seat a/c have edge in dogfight as two minds are better than one....but PAF want one mind trained enough to counter two minds.

IMO their is no need to have a dual seat version now, once the a/c is fully operational then we can think of having a dual seat for OCUs or weapons controller for a later block.

 

[Windjammer]

AFM may be right but since the PAF has a ambitious plan to induct anywhere from 150 to 250 a/c of different 'blocks' and roles, a dual-seater trainer becomes very critical in ramping up the training of new as well as senior pilots to the type. F-6, F-7 were never inducted in the numbers the PAF has planned for the JFT - all we need is a AJT, it dosnt have to be JF-17B.

this is how i feel. i'm not a pilot but just a retired 'ground digger'!

In the initial order of 40 F-16s, there were 8 Twin seater models and the latest Block-52s include 6 of the "D" versions. Apart from their OCU concept, the dual models have proved very effective for night time operations and the "Wild Weasel" types of adoptions. Since the JFT is well on it's way of becoming PAF's mainstay, suffice to say, apart from training, it will be adopted for the enhanced operations role.

 

[humza_313]

In the initial order of 40 F-16s, there were 8 Twin seater models and the latest Block-52s include 6 of the "D" versions. Apart from their OCU concept, the dual models have proved very effective for night time operations and the "Wild Weasel" types of adoptions. Since the JFT is well on it's way of becoming PAF's mainstay, suffice to say, apart from training, it will be adopted for the enhanced operations role.

Yes there is an utter need for some dual JFTs.

weren't the 'wild weasles' used during vietnam war?

 

[khanasifm]

In PAF histroy, 1998 2008 one reason for high A-5 accident rate identified by the PAF was no dual seater and using FT-6 with high thrust ratio of .83 vs A5 .68 as major factor. A5 being nose heavy and its hyralic driven control system being same for F6 and A5 needing more mussel power. The PAF was flying A5 like a fighter rather than ground attack /CAS and pilot went into uncontrolled loop/spin etc. I guess for JF-17 because of flight simulators now this may not be the case, so dual seater is not high priority. Secondly PAF/Pak has to pay for its development.
First 150 will replace 2 A5 and 6 additional sqdn there fore Mirage and F7PG will remain till PAF reach 250 which will cover remaining Mirage Sqdn. PG may be replaced by something different???? 2025???

 

[fatman17]

In the initial order of 40 F-16s, there were 8 Twin seater models and the latest Block-52s include 6 of the "D" versions. Apart from their OCU concept, the dual models have proved very effective for night time operations and the "Wild Weasel" types of adoptions. Since the JFT is well on it's way of becoming PAF's mainstay, suffice to say, apart from training, it will be adopted for the enhanced operations role.

there were 12 F-16B's - the high number of two-seaters were ordered to 'ramp-up' training for the upcoming induction of 10+60 F-16A/B which were un-fortunately embargoed. remember PAF's initial plans were to have a F-16 force of 110 a/c.

 

[epinephrine]

THANX A BUNCH FOR THE SCANS

 

[monitor]

Thanks for the scan but nothing is readable . i have to wait till it comes to Dhaka's flee market .

 

[Donatello]

Thanks for the scan but nothing is readable . i have to wait till it comes to Dhaka's flee market .

Nothing? You kidding me kid. Everything is readable. Just click on the yellow bar on top of pictures to zoom in and it becomes clearer.

 

[humza_313]

In PAF histroy, 1998 2008 one reason for high A-5 accident rate identified by the PAF was no dual seater and using FT-6 with high thrust ratio of .83 vs A5 .68 as major factor. A5 being nose heavy and its hyralic driven control system being same for F6 and A5 needing more mussel power. The PAF was flying A5 like a fighter rather than ground attack /CAS and pilot went into uncontrolled loop/spin etc. I guess for JF-17 because of flight simulators now this may not be the case, so dual seater is not high priority. Secondly PAF/Pak has to pay for its development.
First 150 will replace 2 A5 and 6 additional sqdn there fore Mirage and F7PG will remain till PAF reach 250 which will cover remaining Mirage Sqdn. PG may be replaced by something different???? 2025???

PG's might be decommissioned most probably by 2016. in addition to the JFTs, PAF will also acquire the J-10Bs by 2014 which might replace 2 squadrons of f-7Ps.

 

[alimobin memon]

not necessarily PAF might go for more j10b than expected in future i-e 2015 because of India's big aircraft procurement i think it was also mentioned that procurement j10b might eventually go for 150.

 

[SQ8]

The scans are a copyright violation.
BUY the mag..
Im deleting the scans till next months issue.. when you can post them again.

 

[fatman17]

The scans are a copyright violation.
BUY the mag..
Im deleting the scans till next months issue.. when you can post them again.

thank you very much indeed !

folks dont spoil it for other subscribers!!!