Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Aadi_1591]

Is it new for PAC?

F-16 Fighting Falcon of PAF repaired by PAC Kamra after it got damaged during a bombing mission on terrorist hideouts.

SOURCE: PakistanStrategicForumView attachment 644379

how it got damaged?

 

[Clairvoyant]

https://quwa.org/2016/04/22/pakistan-might-consider-klimov-rd-33mk-jf-17/
More reliable ,turn over time increased to 4000 Hrs , Less maintenance , Thrust to weight ratio improvement for

the JF-17 Block-III could potentially be equipped with a higher thrust turbofan, thus enabling the fighter to boast a higher thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR), especially if a higher proportion of composite materials are incorporated into the airframe. Besides improving the JF-17’s basic performance benchmarks (e.g. speed), an uprated engine could offer the PAF greater flexibility in arming the JF-17 for payload intensive roles, such as air-to-ground and sea missions.

More of these parameters ,speed is irrelevant


https://quwa.org/2016/04/22/pakistan-might-consider-klimov-rd-33mk-jf-17/
More reliable ,turn over time increased to 4000 Hrs , Less maintenance , Thrust to weight ratio improvement for

the JF-17 Block-III could potentially be equipped with a higher thrust turbofan, thus enabling the fighter to boast a higher thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR), especially if a higher proportion of composite materials are incorporated into the airframe. Besides improving the JF-17’s basic performance benchmarks (e.g. speed), an uprated engine could offer the PAF greater flexibility in arming the JF-17 for payload intensive roles, such as air-to-ground and sea missions.

More of these parameters ,speed is irrelevant

There is a difference between confirmed versus potentially possible dear,presently there is no publically available proof that RD.93MA has been or will be used.

For the time being it remains just another rumour.

 

[volatile]

There is a difference between confirmed versus potentially possible dear,presently there is no publically available proof that RD.93MA has been or will be used.

For the time being it remains just another rumour.

May be or May be not China uses multiple engines on different platform WS13 is used on JF17 as well also RD93 in upcoming J31 as well similarly possibility of acquiring same engine with upgrade make more sense when you already have RD93 service centre in Paksitan

PAC even plans to establish a full-scale servicing and overhaul facility for the Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 engine in Kamra, also known as Aviation City, and the center of aircraft manufacturing in Pakistan.

Instead, PAC will expand its work with the Russian engine manufacturer Klimov to set up a comprehensive engine overhaul and servicing facility in Kamra.

Quwa wrote that an overhaul facility (similar to the ATAR 09C facility in the Mirage Rebuild Factory) would be a possibility a few days ago (http://quwa.org/?p=1813).

These are few developments which gives you hint what is going to happen ,e.g my hunch is all platforms having RD93 or derivatives will be in serious consideration as infrastructure is built so much cheaper acquisition cost not like IAF where 6/7 platforms having 6/7 Engine types .so model works .

 

[jupiter2007]

May be or May be not China uses multiple engines on different platform WS13 is used on JF17 as well also RD93 in upcoming J31 as well similarly possibility of acquiring same engine with upgrade make more sense when you already have RD93 service centre in Paksitan

PAC even plans to establish a full-scale servicing and overhaul facility for the Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 engine in Kamra, also known as Aviation City, and the center of aircraft manufacturing in Pakistan.

Instead, PAC will expand its work with the Russian engine manufacturer Klimov to set up a comprehensive engine overhaul and servicing facility in Kamra.

Quwa wrote that an overhaul facility (similar to the ATAR 09C facility in the Mirage Rebuild Factory) would be a possibility a few days ago (http://quwa.org/?p=1813).

These are few developments which gives you hint what is going to happen ,e.g my hunch is all platforms having RD93 or derivatives will be in serious consideration as infrastructure is built so much cheaper acquisition cost not like IAF where 6/7 platforms having 6/7 Engine types .so model works .

Beside JF-17, both J-31 and MiG-35 uses RD-93 or derivatives.
Didn’t Russia offer MiG-35 to Pakistan?

 

[volatile]

Beside JF-17, both J-31 and MiG-35 uses RD-93 or derivatives.
Didn’t Russia offer MiG-35 to Pakistan?

Mig 35 is an excellent platform but it came too late for Pakistan may be in 2010 it make sense ,J31 is serious candidate as China is going to market it like F35 and Project Azm and Turkey will be looking into it as both Air forces need to retire large fleets of F16 .IMO delta should replace delta

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Mig 35 is an excellent platform but it came too late for Pakistan may be in 2010 it make sense ,J31 is serious candidate as China is going to market it like F35 and Project Azm and Turkey will be looking into it as both Air forces need to retire large fleets of F16 .IMO delta should replace delta

PAF needs to replace F-16's in 2030-35 by this time TFX and AZM both would be available. As far as Turkish Air Force is concerned F-16 are to be replaced by TFX.

Turks wanted to replace their highly modified F-4s by F-35 but they are not going to come.

IMO
If PAF manages to manufacture a single engine fifth generation aircraft similar in specifications of F-35 under AZM by 2026 then Turkey would be the first country ordering them to replace their F-4's. This Aircraft could also replace Mirage iii and v in PAF. Unfortunately non of the next generation aircraft are delta winged. PAF also needs to replace F-7PG in the next 7 to 10 years for which PAF can acquire the Hurjet which can serve both as LIFT and Interceptor with BVR missiles.

 

[volatile]

PAF needs to replace F-16's in 2030-35 by this time TFX and AZM both would be available. As far as Turkish Air Force is concerned F-16 are to be replaced by TFX.

Turks wanted to replace their highly modified F-4s by F-35 but they are not going to come.

IMO
If PAF manages to manufacture a single engine fifth generation aircraft similar in specifications of F-35 under AZM by 2026 then Turkey would be the first country ordering them to replace their F-4's. This Aircraft could also replace Mirage iii and v in PAF. Unfortunately non of the next generation aircraft are delta winged. PAF also needs to replace F-7PG in the next 7 to 10 years for which PAF can acquire the Hurjet which can serve both as LIFT and Interceptor with BVR missiles.

Dear aiming one 5th generation and building one is quite different ,Project Azm will continue to work on a single engine configuration F16 will start to retire by 2025 specially the ones bought in 80s bcas they will be 45 years old .Unless uncle sam gives new life along with offered V70 version F16`s will be difficult to sustain ,J31 will be ready by that time and starts to replace F16 (This is going to be off the shelf) .Building 5th generation aeroplane requires certain sensor fusion ,engines ,materials and many other things ,We are producing JF17 with alloys of Aluminium ,composites are not there ,Please emotions a side Both Turkey and Pakistan dont have expertise and Turks seems to be going to Russian route

 

[GriffinsRule]

Dear aiming one 5th generation and building one is quite different ,Project Azm will continue to work on a single engine configuration F16 will start to retire by 2025 specially the ones bought in 80s bcas they will be 45 years old .Unless uncle sam gives new life along with offered V70 version F16`s will be difficult to sustain ,J31 will be ready by that time and starts to replace F16 (This is going to be off the shelf) .Building 5th generation aeroplane requires certain sensor fusion ,engines ,materials and many other things ,We are producing JF17 with alloys of Aluminium ,composites are not there ,Please emotions a side Both Turkey and Pakistan dont have expertise and Turks seems to be going to Russian route

F-16s are not going anywhere before 2040. Age in number of years is meaningless. Flying hours and airframe life is what matters along with technological obsolescence.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

F-16s are not going anywhere before 2040. Age in number of years is meaningless. Flying hours and airframe life is what matters along with technological obsolescence.

Considering the current situation PAF would require an other MLU if they need to take these aircraft to 2040 as they had previously planned. There is a possibility PAF might get some more Block 50/52 then that 2040 is possible. However if IAF can somehow gain time and delay the China -India war and pressurise USA for F35 then F-16's need to be replaced way earlier. PAF would have to think about this possibility and also look at their options. SU-57 / J20. Even the J31 would be removed from this choice. AZM being an in house project would also be stopped in favor of of the shelf procurement.

 

[jupiter2007]

Considering the current situation PAF would require an other MLU if they need to take these aircraft to 2040 as they had previously planned. There is a possibility PAF might get some more Block 50/52 then that 2040 is possible. However if IAF can somehow gain time and delay the China -India war and pressurise USA for F35 then F-16's need to be replaced way earlier. PAF would have to think about this possibility and also look at their options. SU-57 / J20. Even the J31 would be removed from this choice. AZM being an in house project would also be stopped in favor of of the shelf procurement.

JF-17 was to create as a light weight fighter to replace A-5C, F-7s and older mirage. We don’t have medium weight fighter to go against SU-30 and Rafale. We have been upgrading 40 years old mirage and trying get more F-16s while slowly building JF-17. PAF long term planning is only limited to 5 years that’s why they are stuck with Mirage and F-16s. project AZM is unknown....no official or unofficial information is available in public domain. only wishful thinking and fake stories on YouTube.
I can post 10 fake news and articles published in last 10 years regarding PAF fighter acquisition...from F-16s to SU-30 and from Typhoon to mig-35.

 

[volatile]

F-16s are not going anywhere before 2040. Age in number of years is meaningless. Flying hours and airframe life is what matters along with technological obsolescence.

F16s will start to replace not on my wish list or yours but according to PAF own replacement strategy


PAKISTAN TO GET STEALTH FIGHTER AIRCRAFT FROM CHINA
Issue: 2 / 2015By Air Marshal B.K. Pandey (Retd)Photo(s): By Xinhuanet

NEWS
Pakistani officials have reportedly begun talks with their Chinese counterparts to buy the FC-31 stealth fighter jet, according to a news report. Pakistani Defence Production Minister Rana Tanveer Hussain confirmed the discussions were underway, according to an article published by Asia News International, a Delhi-based news agency. The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) is reportedly considering buying between 30 and 40 of the Chinese stealth combat aircraft to replace the F-16 fighter jets produced by Lockheed Martin Corporation of the US. The FC-31 is designed to fly close air support, air interdiction and other missions. However, the PAF is more likely to employ conventional tactical aircraft rather than stealth aircraft in actual missions to support Pakistani ground forces.

http://www.sps-aviation.com/story/?id=1617

 

[GriffinsRule]

F16s will start to replace not on my wish list or yours but according to PAF own replacement strategy


PAKISTAN TO GET STEALTH FIGHTER AIRCRAFT FROM CHINA
Issue: 2 / 2015By Air Marshal B.K. Pandey (Retd)Photo(s): By Xinhuanet

NEWS
Pakistani officials have reportedly begun talks with their Chinese counterparts to buy the FC-31 stealth fighter jet, according to a news report. Pakistani Defence Production Minister Rana Tanveer Hussain confirmed the discussions were underway, according to an article published by Asia News International, a Delhi-based news agency. The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) is reportedly considering buying between 30 and 40 of the Chinese stealth combat aircraft to replace the F-16 fighter jets produced by Lockheed Martin Corporation of the US. The FC-31 is designed to fly close air support, air interdiction and other missions. However, the PAF is more likely to employ conventional tactical aircraft rather than stealth aircraft in actual missions to support Pakistani ground forces.

http://www.sps-aviation.com/story/?id=1617

Wait, India is a source of PAF strategy now for you?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

JF-17 was to create as a light weight fighter to replace A-5C, F-7s and older mirage.

Sir, producing an aircraft is not child play. PAF was embarking on a journey that would produce an aircraft for the first time which needed to be equivalent to US 3rd generation F-16 and modified by high end weapons to bring it
at par with any 4th generation aircraft. Limitations that PAF faced were financial, technical and technological hence it was decided that the aircraft needed to be designed as a light weight aircraft which would be later modified and upgraded to medium weight. As we all know PAF was on the same path as F-16 and SAAB Grippen were developed, PAF was handicapped because of technical issues in making an aircraft whereas USA and Sweden were making aircraft from the very first piston aircraft.

A-5 were designed as bombers but PAF had later upgraded them to multi-role. Hence their role had finished internationally with the introduction of multi-role aircraft like F-15, F-16, F-18, EFT, Grippen and Mirage 2000.
F-7 were interceptors hence still capable whereas Mirages were still very capable aircraft hence could be upgraded to a higher generation with minimum cost. This is the very reason still Mirages can be bought and upgraded.

We don’t have medium weight fighter to go against SU-30 and Rafale.

First of all one needs to understand what is the difference between light weight and medium weight fighter?
Aircraft are classified on these principles.
1) Type
2) Role
3) Weight

1) Type of aircraft
Trainer, Fighter, Bomber and Transport.

2) Role
Air Supremacy, Close Air Support, Ground attack. If an aircraft can do all these then it is called Multi-role.

3) Weight
Light, Medium and Heavy. Aircraft are certified on their Maximum performances in ISA conditions. Here maximum weight = empty weight + payload + fuel.
Empty weight includes everything except weapons and fuel.

Capability of an aircraft to outperform that of an adversary does not need to be classified in the same weight category because that would depend on the role being performed at that particular time. It is possible that a light weight aircraft in air to air out perform a medium or heavy weight aircraft if it is equipped with superior avionics and weapons as it would give light aircraft added advantage due to its smaller foot print.

We have been upgrading 40 years old mirage and trying get more F-16s while slowly building JF-17

Wars have multiple fronts which also include economics, Mirages and f-16 have become cost effective against their adversaries. Hence if 2 F-16 are lost to shoot down 1 Rafale still the financial loss would remain considerably lower than the adversary.

PAF long term planning is only limited to 5 years that’s why they are stuck with Mirage and F-16s.

Pakistani as a nation are only good at crisis management as we tend to live our lives on day to day basis.

project AZM is unknown....no official or unofficial information is available in public domain. only wishful thinking and fake stories on YouTube.

This was one of the reason in my earlier post had mentioned that this project could to shelved like other military projects that were highly classified.

I can post 10 fake news and articles published in last 10 years regarding PAF fighter acquisition...from F-16s to SU-30 and from Typhoon to mig-35.

When one does not have a sound direction and clarity of approach then this is bound to happen.

 

[Trailer23]

 

[ghazi52]