Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Khafee]

Yet most US fighters have them, practice with them in A2A and even employ them in complex A2A and A2G scenarios such as red flag. Ill trust the premier airforces of the world and not random internet babas.

Sir Red Flag is a an exercise. No matter what people say, IT is not a "tactics development exercise". There literally all capabilities of an aircraft are used, just the same way, a soldier is taught to assemble his weapon eyes closed. The real "tactics and sop's" are developed "after" the exercise.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sir Red Flag is a an exercise. No matter what people say, IT is not a "tactics development exercise". There literally all capabilities of an aircraft are used, just the same way, a soldier is taught to assemble his weapon eyes closed. The real "tactics and sop's" are developed "after" the exercise.

Based on the data gathered in the exercise. Which necessarily includes the use of cannons.

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks for sharing I have that book and last weekend I took it out to restart reading this Tom Clancy book.
I read Dale Brown as well, however I am not rigid in my thoughts and maybe those who say gun is useless in dog fight have rigid attitude.
Drones are the future and a lot of other changes in air warfare but this will take time.

Hi,

Have you read his earlier books---?

 

[Khafee]

Based on the data gathered in the exercise. Which necessarily includes the use of cannons.

Thank You Captain Obvious!

 

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

Have you read his earlier books---?

Yes some of them
I remember the Flight of you he old Dog and

Hi,

Have you read his earlier books---?

yes flight of the old dog, night of the hawk and later now strike force and probably started but not yet finished.

 

[CriticalThought]

Thank You Captain Obvious!

Let's make something very clear. We are not friends. We don't know each other, and we share no bonds of familiarity. Stay within the norms of decency and formality.

 

[Khafee]

Let's make something very clear. We are not friends. We don't know each other, and we share no bonds of familiarity. Stay within the norms of decency and formality.

I have a very strong distaste for clueless and arrogant idiots, hence my earlier sarcastic comment.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Not so quick sunshine, what if both radars as well as comm equipment is jammed for both and you end up in close proximity to an enemy? Gun is the only non-jammable weapon on a fighter and it can be used in sow-moving drones as well as ground targets. why lose such a versatile weapon? and what advantage you get by losing it?

Hi,

Go back to feb 27th---the myht of the gun has been busted---.

No pilots worth his salt & common sense would stay in the dog fight range---. He would rather run away---.

@Khafee --- it would be absolutely stupid of any pilot---even the one who can get into a gun fight to get into a gun fight could also be the target of a BVR missiles---from another enemy aircraft---.

See---gun fight takes 110 % of the pilots attention---he is clueless about anything other than the target---he got target fixation---that is how he will get behind the enemy---he can't hear anything---he can't see anything other than the target and gun lock---which means that he has put the aircraft and his life in jeoardy against a BVR shot from an enemy aircraft 30-40 miles away---.

Even though missile warning launch would be screaming in his ears---he won't hear anything else other than looking for a target lock---.

You kids do not have a broader view of the combat---.

 

[SQ8]

Sir Red Flag is a an exercise. No matter what people say, IT is not a "tactics development exercise". There literally all capabilities of an aircraft are used, just the same way, a soldier is taught to assemble his weapon eyes closed. The real "tactics and sop's" are developed "after" the exercise.

Lessons from red flag are employed in real life; which includes the usage of the gun in A2A combat.

 

[fatman17]

https://www.rt.com/news/457701-iaf-report-admits-failures-pakistan/

 

[Signalian]

The J10C is a medium weight multi role fighter equal to that of the Viper.
The J16 is a heavy weight, that does come in a dedicated wild weasel / growler type version as well.

Now a single engine a/c is much easier to maintain, and very economical for CAP's, but these capabilities are already being addressed by Viper & JFT.

If it comes down to which one PAF should buy, the clear choice should be the J16.

Everything that the J10 offers is available in the Blk52+ and is supplemented by JFT. What PAF needs now, is to address gaps / additional areas that need to be addressed, especially for maritime ops.

A dedicated squadron or two for the navy, considering it's long range, would do wonders.

Secondly, the J16's low flight capability is very close, if not better than that of the mirages. Being twin engine it's payload capacity is also greater. In a Growler like config, it would wreak havoc.

Just my 2cents
@Signalian & @MastanKhan can expand on this further.

Varying views.

I wouldn't undermine Chinese electronics since JF-17 is based on Chinese systems, but i have a few things in mind before i conclude. JF-17 is an investment which has been already made, there is no turning back from it, the only way is forward. J-10 is an option, and not the only option. Yes credit wise (money), its a cheaper option, but isn't JF-17 a cheaper option already present.

J-10 would have been a good option in the absence of F-16. You know the price tag of modern western aircraft. PAF wants funding enabled from CSF. Uncle Sam is drifting away from spoken words. PAF wants available technology, best or effective, but both come with a price tag. Its more like J-10 vs F-16 now. what offers more? The mood on PDF has deviated towards USA putting sanctions on Pakistan in case of F-16, so F-16 is not a good option in future for further induction. PAF sees it differently. Western electronic systems have their own place in the market and are proven systems. It will be interesting so know if DA-20 EW aircraft are equipped with western (french ?) or chinese systems, or a mix of both. PAF's love for F-16 has proved itself on 27th feb, just like it did back in 1980's against Soviet/Afghan jets.

so for the next jet,will it be only Azm project or any other, will be it western or chinese electronics ? Can PAF get a chinese aircraft and integrate with western tech like before? or will it be turkish tech this time ? this reminds me ,why is Russian electronic tech so under rated by PAF ? indians somehow also chose israeli tech on russian aircrafts.

If you look at the Kuwaiti AF acquisition of 40 F-18 E/F's, its a 10 billion USD deal, check the amount of accessories which come with these aircrafts, sky rocketing the cost. So then again, PAF has say 3 Billion USD, what will PAF do, cant get multiple platforms, cant get all all required accessories maybe. F-16 also has many accessories, pay the price and get those pods, radars, EW systems. is J-10 also flexible enough ? you know the issues of licensing with J-11 series, will Russians allow, can't say for sure since Russians have pitched SU35 already.

You know "weapon politics" better than me.

 

[Globalwarrior]

How did F 16 prove itself when ISPR says no f16s were used ?

 

[CriticalThought]

Varying views.

I wouldn't undermine Chinese electronics since JF-17 is based on Chinese systems, but i have a few things in mind before i conclude. JF-17 is an investment which has been already made, there is no turning back from it, the only way is forward. J-10 is an option, and not the only option. Yes credit wise (money), its a cheaper option, but isn't JF-17 a cheaper option already present.

J-10 would have been a good option in the absence of F-16. You know the price tag of modern western aircraft. PAF wants funding enabled from CSF. Uncle Sam is drifting away from spoken words. PAF wants available technology, best or effective, but both come with a price tag. Its more like J-10 vs F-16 now. what offers more? The mood on PDF has deviated towards USA putting sanctions on Pakistan in case of F-16, so F-16 is not a good option in future for further induction. PAF sees it differently. Western electronic systems have their own place in the market and are proven systems. It will be interesting so know if DA-20 EW aircraft are equipped with western (french ?) or chinese systems, or a mix of both. PAF's love for F-16 has proved itself on 27th feb, just like it did back in 1980's against Soviet/Afghan jets.

so for the next jet,will it be only Azm project or any other, will be it western or chinese electronics ? Can PAF get a chinese aircraft and integrate with western tech like before? or will it be turkish tech this time ? this reminds me ,why is Russian electronic tech so under rated by PAF ? indians somehow also chose israeli tech on russian aircrafts.

If you look at the Kuwaiti AF acquisition of 40 F-18 E/F's, its a 10 billion USD deal, check the amount of accessories which come with these aircrafts, sky rocketing the cost. So then again, PAF has say 3 Billion USD, what will PAF do, cant get multiple platforms, cant get all all required accessories maybe. F-16 also has many accessories, pay the price and get those pods, radars, EW systems. is J-10 also flexible enough ? you know the issues of licensing with J-11 series, will Russians allow, can't say for sure since Russians have pitched SU35 already.

You know "weapon politics" better than me.

I criticize the slave mentality behind PAF's Viper love affair. Instead of trying to produce better, they remain a net importer. Thunder is mainly Chinese engineering. AEWACS are all Chinese/Western engineering. In 70 years, they didn't have the vision and foresight to setup a decent semiconductor fabrication and materials industry. And even with Azm, the plan seems to be 'Program Management' with key components outsourced. A success based on imported war fighting philosophy and technology is temporary. As soon as India decides to listen to USAF, forget about PAF's supposed man behind the machine. If America arns your enemy with better tools AND skills, you are nothing. 27th Feb is America's lesson to India to listen like a good student. If Indians are wise enough to listen, good bye PAF.

 

[Bossman]

How did F 16 prove itself when ISPR says no f16s were used ?

ISPR never said that F16 were not used. They never crossed the LOC but were definitely used.

 

[Aryeih Leib]

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