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This is how the Indians fool their nation. The IAF has painted the wreckage of their own MiG-21 in PAF colors and displayed it as a war trophy outside a military base. However in their desperation apart from painting the Pakistani flag the wrong way, the losers failed to remove the serial number and as can be seen in the third picture, all IAF MiG-21s have a prefix of letter 'C' as part of their serial.View attachment 638942 View attachment 638943 View attachment 638944

Lolz... As Always...

Is PAF interested in acquiring some used MiG-29s & Su-27s with upgrades from some current operators?

This can give/offer PAF a hands-on experience as well as can assist PAF in building up a relationship with the Russian Aviation Industry directly.
 
Lolz... As Always...

Is PAF interested in acquiring some used MiG-29s & Su-27s with upgrades from some current operators?

This can give/offer PAF a hands-on experience as well as can assist PAF in building up a relationship with the Russian Aviation Industry directly.
Can be usefull idea

But PAF never interested in Russians birds , dont know the reason, thay are good and cheap.
 
I'm guessing here. glass cockpit and engine upgrade. these IL78s make a lot of noise and therefore are not allowed to land at many international airports as they break noise abatement levels.


no, these were bought from Ukraine 2nd hand and were initially given a refurbishment (dent, paint etc)

Yes that I know..just didn't know the extent of the upgrades in Russia. Also wondering..could they not have been patched up by the Ukranians..why did they go to Russia first?
 
My guess is as good as yours
Yes that I know..just didn't know the extent of the upgrades in Russia. Also wondering..could they not have been patched up by the Ukranians..why did they go to Russia first?
 
Couldn't sleep as an idea was working in my head so I got up and built an Excel model of conscription.

Basically the model has the following assumptions:
1. 10,000 conscripts per month.
2. Each conscript gets 1.5 month training and serves an additional 6 months
3. At the end of conscription, PA picks the best and offers them positions in the regular army
4. Of the rest, a second tour is offered on a voluntary basis with better remuneration. The model assumes 10% of conscripts choose such an option. A third tour is 10% of the second tour
5. Another option is to volunteer for the Weekend Warrior program - part time reserve, with training one weekend every month and a 2 week tour every year. The model assumes 20% of the conscripts choose this option. Every six months, attrition is 10%.

The net result is that, within the first year, Pakistan has 78,000 soldiers. By the second year, Pak has 91,500 soldiers. And by Year 3, there are 95,000 soldiers.

The Israelis use an 80-20 split. For every 8 conscripts, they have 2 professional soldiers / technicians / engineers to back them up. If we add about 18000 such soldiers for our force, we end up with approximately 113,000 soldiers of professionals / nonprofessionals mixed.

Next we can look into how to equip them and where to base them.

@PanzerKiel thought you may find it interesting.


I don't want to divert your thread into discussing aircrafts so im quoting you here - if we just say that instead of increasing Ground formations, follow a different model, an approach similar to USA and Israel, which leads to doubling the PAF combat Squadrons from 16 to 32. How would that affect future Operations of Pakistan Military and how would India react to it ? what resources and in how much time can the airforce be doubled ? How can it give edge to Pakistan in war ? Bear in mind that AF gives cover to ground and naval forces so its always in demand for providing cover and keeping friendly skies clear. Its difficult to match Indian Army divisions on 1 to 1 basis and remote chances of PN operating an aircraft carrier or destroyer.
 
I don't want to divert your thread into discussing aircrafts so im quoting you here - if we just say that instead of increasing Ground formations, follow a different model, an approach similar to USA and Israel, which leads to doubling the PAF combat Squadrons from 16 to 32. How would that affect future Operations of Pakistan Military and how would India react to it ? what resources and in how much time can the airforce be doubled ? How can it give edge to Pakistan in war ? Bear in mind that AF gives cover to ground and naval forces so its always in demand for providing cover and keeping friendly skies clear. Its difficult to match Indian Army divisions on 1 to 1 basis and remote chances of PN operating an aircraft carrier or destroyer.

That is an interesting thought. Perhaps it doesn't have to be one or the other, but a balanced response with increases in all services. Conscripting say 1 in 10 matriculating graduates would be a low cost way to increase infantry divisions. If not 1:1 at least it can be 1:.8 It also solves the relative lack of reserves problem.

About increasing air force units - I think this will be expensive but a definite force multiplier. PAF has already increased JF-17 production rate to perhaps 25 a year. They may end up with a 500 fighter air force.

Maintaining these aircraft and manning them are quite expensive. The JF-17, mainly due to the engine costs more CPFH than the F-16 (or so I've gleaned). How can this be lowered?
What are some other ways that PAF capabilities can be enhanced?

Here are some ideas:
1. Buy all the Mirage 3/5/50 there is in the world. Continue this as long as possible to increase numbers.
2. Get a LIFT to lower the JF-17 costs - keep a portion of the pilot flight hours from a simulator and a LIFT, and minimize use of the actual jet. This would lower costs significantly.
3. Let's think a step further: Why not build a "JF-17 Lite" that would essentially be a LIFT? A low cost, low CPFH JF-17.

Thinking along this third line, such a LIFT may not need to pull 8.5 Gs. Maybe 4 Gs is enough. The most expensive element in the JF-17 is the RD-93 engine (and also the cause of higher CPFH). Build a simplified local RD-93 / WS-XX). Instead of using expensive alloys and materials, make a simplified version of the RD-93 / WS-13 with steel and aluminum (7x series aircraft aluminum).

I think if Elon Musk was in charge that is what he would do. His philosophy is, if something is too complex they inevitably create problems and is a poor engineering choice. This is why Space X is now building engines with Steel.

Do an Elon with the RD-93 or WS-xx. Get a team to use the Elon model of engineering R&D with constant building and testing, creating rapid iterations until you perfect it.

This engine would not need to be the most expensive or best engine. Just a good enough engine for a LIFT. Get the JF-17 Lite to the 0.8 - 0.9 mach range.

With low cost and simplified solutions (given only 4 Gs are needed), this JF-17 would be lighter and significantly cheaper (with the low cost local engine).

They would probably sell like hot cakes to any country looking for a low cost multirole aircraft.

Better yet, such a JF-17 would be able to bomb IA formations just as easily (you don't need 8 Gs and supersonic for ground pounding missions). They would be able to support "real" JF-17s in air combat by having missile racks that could be qued by data link.

They would be able to keep the "real" JF-17 pilots current by acting as the near perfect low cost LIFT. Since they would share parts with the "real" JF-17s, in war time when long MTBF is not needed, their parts would often be able to be used in a hurry.

As PAF's finances improve, parts from the JF-17 Lite could be retired in favor of "real" parts - increasing their capability. For instance, first thing changed would be perhaps the steel / aluminum fan blades for single crystal blades...

So, this perhaps could be a way that PAF could be made to significantly increasing the capability of a-2-a and a-2-g at a relatively low cost, keeping economic conditions in view.

This JF-17 Lite would sell like hot cakes in Africa and South America. Modern combat aircraft are just too expensive to buy for a large number of countries. We saw with the Nigeria order that each Block 2 JF-17s, with support, parts, etc costing 60 million per plane.

What is the JF-17 Lite cost 5 to 7 million? With the low cost of steel / aluminum / plastic parts, what is the price point we could offer the world?

How then, would a successful export aircraft help PAF? As money comes back in, and as increased production lowers unit costs, the sky would perhaps be the limit to however many JF-17s Pakistan needs, in whatever configuration.

Post Script: By the way, Israel uses conscription. Bringing this up since you noted Israel. They have about 600,000 soldiers 80% of them conscripts. The also have a large air force. So, for them its not one or the other, but a balance of both. Why conscription isn't being used in Pakistan is a logic that is not understandable to me. The only explanation is that PA does not wish to leave its colonial legacy.
 
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Lockheed Martin received a $485 million contract for Department of Defense and Foreign Military Sales (FMS) Sniper, Infrared Search and Track (IRST); and Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infrared for Night (LANTIRN) navigation pod (fixed wing) hardware production. This contract involves FMS to (this list is not all inclusive): Bahrain, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Egypt, Greece, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Republic of Korea, Kuwait, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey. FMS funds in the amount of $34 million are being obligated at the time of award for the country of Morocco. Contract through Air Force Life Cycle Management Center.
 
That is an interesting thought. Perhaps it doesn't have to be one or the other, but a balanced response with increases in all services. Conscripting say 1 in 10 matriculating graduates would be a low cost way to increase infantry divisions. If not 1:1 at least it can be 1:.8 It also solves the relative lack of reserves problem.

About increasing air force units - I think this will be expensive but a definite force multiplier. PAF has already increased JF-17 production rate to perhaps 25 a year. They may end up with a 500 fighter air force.

Maintaining these aircraft and manning them are quite expensive. The JF-17, mainly due to the engine costs more CPFH than the F-16 (or so I've gleaned). How can this be lowered?
What are some other ways that PAF capabilities can be enhanced?

Here are some ideas:
1. Buy all the Mirage 3/5/50 there is in the world. Continue this as long as possible to increase numbers.
2. Get a LIFT to lower the JF-17 costs - keep a portion of the pilot flight hours from a simulator and a LIFT, and minimize use of the actual jet. This would lower costs significantly.
3. Let's think a step further: Why not build a "JF-17 Lite" that would essentially be a LIFT? A low cost, low CPFH JF-17.

Thinking along this third line, such a LIFT may not need to pull 8.5 Gs. Maybe 4 Gs is enough. The most expensive element in the JF-17 is the RD-93 engine (and also the cause of higher CPFH). Build a simplified local RD-93 / WS-XX). Instead of using expensive alloys and materials, make a simplified version of the RD-93 / WS-13 with steel and aluminum (7x series aircraft aluminum).

I think if Elon Musk was in charge that is what he would do. His philosophy is, if something is too complex they inevitably create problems and is a poor engineering choice. This is why Space X is now building engines with Steel.

Do an Elon with the RD-93 or WS-xx. Get a team to use the Elon model of engineering R&D with constant building and testing, creating rapid iterations until you perfect it.

This engine would not need to be the most expensive or best engine. Just a good enough engine for a LIFT. Get the JF-17 Lite to the 0.8 - 0.9 mach range.

With low cost and simplified solutions (given only 4 Gs are needed), this JF-17 would be lighter and significantly cheaper (with the low cost local engine).

They would probably sell like hot cakes to any country looking for a low cost multirole aircraft.

Better yet, such a JF-17 would be able to bomb IA formations just as easily (you don't need 8 Gs and supersonic for ground pounding missions). They would be able to support "real" JF-17s in air combat by having missile racks that could be qued by data link.

They would be able to keep the "real" JF-17 pilots current by acting as the near perfect low cost LIFT. Since they would share parts with the "real" JF-17s, in war time when long MTBF is not needed, their parts would often be able to be used in a hurry.

As PAF's finances improve, parts from the JF-17 Lite could be retired in favor of "real" parts - increasing their capability. For instance, first thing changed would be perhaps the steel / aluminum fan blades for single crystal blades...

So, this perhaps could be a way that PAF could be made to significantly increasing the capability of a-2-a and a-2-g at a relatively low cost, keeping economic conditions in view.

This JF-17 Lite would sell like hot cakes in Africa and South America. Modern combat aircraft are just too expensive to buy for a large number of countries. We saw with the Nigeria order that each Block 2 JF-17s, with support, parts, etc costing 60 million per plane.

What is the JF-17 Lite cost 5 to 7 million? With the low cost of steel / aluminum / plastic parts, what is the price point we could offer the world?

How then, would a successful export aircraft help PAF? As money comes back in, and as increased production lowers unit costs, the sky would perhaps be the limit to however many JF-17s Pakistan needs, in whatever configuration.
Thandar lite is not bad idea at all, but few point seam tomuch wished specially low cost local engines, aircraft engine are not easy job look how many countries actually doing it, so best option is to get cheap cost engine
Second point you said it can cost 5 to 7 million, which not realistic anything use as LIFT need have basic avionics and other equipment for training. Si what ever thay it will cost higher then ur guess
 
That is an interesting thought. Perhaps it doesn't have to be one or the other, but a balanced response with increases in all services. Conscripting say 1 in 10 matriculating graduates would be a low cost way to increase infantry divisions. If not 1:1 at least it can be 1:.8 It also solves the relative lack of reserves problem.

About increasing air force units - I think this will be expensive but a definite force multiplier. PAF has already increased JF-17 production rate to perhaps 25 a year. They may end up with a 500 fighter air force.

Maintaining these aircraft and manning them are quite expensive. The JF-17, mainly due to the engine costs more CPFH than the F-16 (or so I've gleaned). How can this be lowered?
What are some other ways that PAF capabilities can be enhanced?

Here are some ideas:
1. Buy all the Mirage 3/5/50 there is in the world. Continue this as long as possible to increase numbers.
2. Get a LIFT to lower the JF-17 costs - keep a portion of the pilot flight hours from a simulator and a LIFT, and minimize use of the actual jet. This would lower costs significantly.
3. Let's think a step further: Why not build a "JF-17 Lite" that would essentially be a LIFT? A low cost, low CPFH JF-17.

Thinking along this third line, such a LIFT may not need to pull 8.5 Gs. Maybe 4 Gs is enough. The most expensive element in the JF-17 is the RD-93 engine (and also the cause of higher CPFH). Build a simplified local RD-93 / WS-XX). Instead of using expensive alloys and materials, make a simplified version of the RD-93 / WS-13 with steel and aluminum (7x series aircraft aluminum).

I think if Elon Musk was in charge that is what he would do. His philosophy is, if something is too complex they inevitably create problems and is a poor engineering choice. This is why Space X is now building engines with Steel.

Do an Elon with the RD-93 or WS-xx. Get a team to use the Elon model of engineering R&D with constant building and testing, creating rapid iterations until you perfect it.

This engine would not need to be the most expensive or best engine. Just a good enough engine for a LIFT. Get the JF-17 Lite to the 0.8 - 0.9 mach range.

With low cost and simplified solutions (given only 4 Gs are needed), this JF-17 would be lighter and significantly cheaper (with the low cost local engine).

They would probably sell like hot cakes to any country looking for a low cost multirole aircraft.

Better yet, such a JF-17 would be able to bomb IA formations just as easily (you don't need 8 Gs and supersonic for ground pounding missions). They would be able to support "real" JF-17s in air combat by having missile racks that could be qued by data link.

They would be able to keep the "real" JF-17 pilots current by acting as the near perfect low cost LIFT. Since they would share parts with the "real" JF-17s, in war time when long MTBF is not needed, their parts would often be able to be used in a hurry.

As PAF's finances improve, parts from the JF-17 Lite could be retired in favor of "real" parts - increasing their capability. For instance, first thing changed would be perhaps the steel / aluminum fan blades for single crystal blades...

So, this perhaps could be a way that PAF could be made to significantly increasing the capability of a-2-a and a-2-g at a relatively low cost, keeping economic conditions in view.

This JF-17 Lite would sell like hot cakes in Africa and South America. Modern combat aircraft are just too expensive to buy for a large number of countries. We saw with the Nigeria order that each Block 2 JF-17s, with support, parts, etc costing 60 million per plane.

What is the JF-17 Lite cost 5 to 7 million? With the low cost of steel / aluminum / plastic parts, what is the price point we could offer the world?

How then, would a successful export aircraft help PAF? As money comes back in, and as increased production lowers unit costs, the sky would perhaps be the limit to however many JF-17s Pakistan needs, in whatever configuration.

Post Script: By the way, Israel uses conscription. Bringing this up since you noted Israel. They have about 600,000 soldiers 80% of them conscripts. The also have a large air force. So, for them its not one or the other, but a balance of both. Why conscription isn't being used in Pakistan is a logic that is not understandable to me. The only explanation is that PA does not wish to leave its colonial legacy.
To be honest, it doesn't need to be as complicated as any of that...

There's actually a Polish company that was willing to develop a new single-engine LIFT using the AI-222-28F. The design work was already complete, it just needed a primary investor/end-user to anchor the program.

This is basically your 'JF-17 Lite' in a nut-shell. It gets you the LIFT capabilities you need without causing a redundancy with the JF-17, while also adding its own value (e.g., as a light attack aircraft).

The engine was ITAR-free and widely in use, no reason why they couldn't make the other inputs ITAR-free if asked. If the PAF says it'll buy LIFT from a local contractor, and commit to a sizable enough order, the private sector will invest.

Sure, they wouldn't be able to make all or even most of the plane in Pakistan, but some firm could've bought the design, managed the final assembly, and manufactured like 33%+ of the content locally.

It's appalling we never thought of this idea when the Polish gov't literally invited some of our generals to tour the Polish industry in 2017 (see here).

upload_2020-6-7_17-28-36.png

https://old.defence-ua.com/index.ph...ping-grot-2-airplane-with-a-motor-sich-engine
 

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To be honest, it doesn't need to be as complicated as any of that...

There's actually a Polish company that was willing to develop a new single-engine LIFT using the AI-222-28F. The design work was already complete, it just needed a primary investor/end-user to anchor the program.

This is basically your 'JF-17 Lite' in a nut-shell. It gets you the LIFT capabilities you need without causing a redundancy with the JF-17, while also adding its own value (e.g., as a light attack aircraft).

The engine was ITAR-free and widely in use, no reason why they couldn't make the other inputs ITAR-free if asked. If the PAF says it'll buy LIFT from a local contractor, and commit to a sizable enough order, the private sector will invest.

It's appalling we never thought of this idea when the Polish gov't literally invited all armed forces chiefs to tour the Polish industry in 2017 (https://grupapgz.pl/blog/przedstawiciele-pakistanskiego-przemyslu-obronnego-z-wizyta-w-pgz/)

View attachment 639460
https://old.defence-ua.com/index.ph...ping-grot-2-airplane-with-a-motor-sich-engine

That is a good idea. However, I see a few points:

1. To develop a true LIFT is about 70% the effort of a fighter program. If its subsonic, about 50% the effort.

2. The engines have to be truly low maintenance and sip fuel. Otherwise there is no real purpose.

3. Modern AESA radars have very high definition - meaning they can recognize and differentiate aircraft a lot better than in the past. This means that this LIFT would just be a lift and at best a light attack aircraft.

4. There is very limited combat utility of a LIFT in an air defence role. Specially in a high stakes India-Pakistan face-off.

In comparison, the JF-17 Lite would:

1. Be nearly indistinguishable from JF-17s, meaning India would not know exactly how many "real JF-17s" they are facing in combat.

2. Over time, can be upgraded to even better combat capability (as funds become available): upgrade to some composite engine parts - get more combat capable engine. Add a radar / add a better radar. Add EW. Take out some of the lower quality airframe parts and improve G rating. There is a certain in-built upgradability here. Eventually, the margin of difference between the Lite and the real thing will be smaller.

3. You have a product indigenously developed that can be exported to Africa / South America as your export. Which can earn money. Buying a LIFT - most likely a Chinese one will never allow you to do that. And if you can sell the JF-17 Lite as a LIFT, you get a foot in the door and develop relationships as a manufacturer. Which makes the real JF-17 an even more attractive proposition as a package.
 
That is an interesting thought. Perhaps it doesn't have to be one or the other, but a balanced response with increases in all services. Conscripting say 1 in 10 matriculating graduates would be a low cost way to increase infantry divisions. If not 1:1 at least it can be 1:.8 It also solves the relative lack of reserves problem.

About increasing air force units - I think this will be expensive but a definite force multiplier. PAF has already increased JF-17 production rate to perhaps 25 a year. They may end up with a 500 fighter air force.

Maintaining these aircraft and manning them are quite expensive. The JF-17, mainly due to the engine costs more CPFH than the F-16 (or so I've gleaned). How can this be lowered?
What are some other ways that PAF capabilities can be enhanced?

Here are some ideas:
1. Buy all the Mirage 3/5/50 there is in the world. Continue this as long as possible to increase numbers.
2. Get a LIFT to lower the JF-17 costs - keep a portion of the pilot flight hours from a simulator and a LIFT, and minimize use of the actual jet. This would lower costs significantly.
3. Let's think a step further: Why not build a "JF-17 Lite" that would essentially be a LIFT? A low cost, low CPFH JF-17.

Thinking along this third line, such a LIFT may not need to pull 8.5 Gs. Maybe 4 Gs is enough. The most expensive element in the JF-17 is the RD-93 engine (and also the cause of higher CPFH). Build a simplified local RD-93 / WS-XX). Instead of using expensive alloys and materials, make a simplified version of the RD-93 / WS-13 with steel and aluminum (7x series aircraft aluminum).

I think if Elon Musk was in charge that is what he would do. His philosophy is, if something is too complex they inevitably create problems and is a poor engineering choice. This is why Space X is now building engines with Steel.

Do an Elon with the RD-93 or WS-xx. Get a team to use the Elon model of engineering R&D with constant building and testing, creating rapid iterations until you perfect it.

This engine would not need to be the most expensive or best engine. Just a good enough engine for a LIFT. Get the JF-17 Lite to the 0.8 - 0.9 mach range.

With low cost and simplified solutions (given only 4 Gs are needed), this JF-17 would be lighter and significantly cheaper (with the low cost local engine).

They would probably sell like hot cakes to any country looking for a low cost multirole aircraft.

Better yet, such a JF-17 would be able to bomb IA formations just as easily (you don't need 8 Gs and supersonic for ground pounding missions). They would be able to support "real" JF-17s in air combat by having missile racks that could be qued by data link.

They would be able to keep the "real" JF-17 pilots current by acting as the near perfect low cost LIFT. Since they would share parts with the "real" JF-17s, in war time when long MTBF is not needed, their parts would often be able to be used in a hurry.

As PAF's finances improve, parts from the JF-17 Lite could be retired in favor of "real" parts - increasing their capability. For instance, first thing changed would be perhaps the steel / aluminum fan blades for single crystal blades...

So, this perhaps could be a way that PAF could be made to significantly increasing the capability of a-2-a and a-2-g at a relatively low cost, keeping economic conditions in view.

This JF-17 Lite would sell like hot cakes in Africa and South America. Modern combat aircraft are just too expensive to buy for a large number of countries. We saw with the Nigeria order that each Block 2 JF-17s, with support, parts, etc costing 60 million per plane.

What is the JF-17 Lite cost 5 to 7 million? With the low cost of steel / aluminum / plastic parts, what is the price point we could offer the world?

How then, would a successful export aircraft help PAF? As money comes back in, and as increased production lowers unit costs, the sky would perhaps be the limit to however many JF-17s Pakistan needs, in whatever configuration.

Post Script: By the way, Israel uses conscription. Bringing this up since you noted Israel. They have about 600,000 soldiers 80% of them conscripts. The also have a large air force. So, for them its not one or the other, but a balance of both. Why conscription isn't being used in Pakistan is a logic that is not understandable to me. The only explanation is that PA does not wish to leave its colonial legacy.

You have started revolving around JF-17, its cost and fighter acquisition. I asked specific Q's to clear an over all picture with few basic points:
1. Army has raised new formations, upgraded older formations (Mech inf and Sp Arty Regts), PAF has also raised couple of Squadrons and PN has inducted new ships. So an overall expansion has taken in all three forces. In the past, Army was expanded the most which has changed now. However, all this expansion in three forces is excellent, but how does one get an edge over the enemy in conventional warfare?

2. Army cannot match its brigades and divisions with indian Army and Navy cannot also match ship to ship. However, if PAF starts to match its number of squadrons to IAF squadrons, would that raise alarms in IAF ? would that give an edge to PA and PN in conducting their Ops also since both are dependent on air cover ?

3. India has always started a weapons race and knows that it can win that weapon race, in numbers especially. Pakistan can match in quality though and it has most of the times. Its the numbers where Pakistan lacks and will continue to do so.
 
Can be usefull idea

But PAF never interested in Russians birds , dont know the reason, thay are good and cheap.

Also, if we say only a very small number and PAF can keep them secret like other Air Forces have aircraft that they keep secret from the world.
 
To be honest, it doesn't need to be as complicated as any of that...

There's actually a Polish company that was willing to develop a new single-engine LIFT using the AI-222-28F. The design work was already complete, it just needed a primary investor/end-user to anchor the program.

This is basically your 'JF-17 Lite' in a nut-shell. It gets you the LIFT capabilities you need without causing a redundancy with the JF-17, while also adding its own value (e.g., as a light attack aircraft).

The engine was ITAR-free and widely in use, no reason why they couldn't make the other inputs ITAR-free if asked. If the PAF says it'll buy LIFT from a local contractor, and commit to a sizable enough order, the private sector will invest.

Sure, they wouldn't be able to make all or even most of the plane in Pakistan, but some firm could've bought the design, managed the final assembly, and manufactured like 33%+ of the content locally.

It's appalling we never thought of this idea when the Polish gov't literally invited some of our generals to tour the Polish industry in 2017 (see here).

View attachment 639460
https://old.defence-ua.com/index.ph...ping-grot-2-airplane-with-a-motor-sich-engine
Sir,
With due apology, LIFT will not give any significant advantage because it would only be used against lightly protected targets. Unfortunately what PAF's current requirements are is to procure a deep strike aircraft that could cover the expanded sea lines. PAF also needs to replace the F7PG with more multirole light fighter aircraft that can be flown at MACH 2.

IF PAF would continue with the current concept of area deniability then:
PAF should look into the Turkish Hurjet and engine technology so that in the future local production and self reliability can be secured for domestic and export.
 

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