Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[volatile]

NO YAK is coming in PAF as unit price is quite similar to thunder around 20 Mil with Infra and other things it will be around 30 Mil .It is two different things to show interest and to buy .By showing interest you understand what is available in Market and what are new trends then ultimately you negotiate for best package with some one who is more aligned with your needs.Only trainer i can think of coming in is from China Hongdu L-15 with TOT and local assembling and best suited for our needs.

 

[Quwa]

PAF will probably use a two seat JF-17 for LIFT. No point in a dedicated LIFT jet that costs as much and offers less in range, payload, etc.

As for CAS and supporting COIN. Besides using JF-17 with targeting pod, 250kg Takbir JDAM-like PGBs, H2 TV-guided PGB, and possibly AASM-like system, PAF and PA may invest in an EMB-314 type platform. These planes can engage in precision strike as well as CAS at a fraction of the operation cost of our fighters, leaving them for border-focused tasks.

A new gen turboprop can also be bought with local manufacturing and used to take on basic flight in PAF (by replacing T-37). The K-8s can be put to intermediate flight and jet exposure. The two seat JF-17 can do LIFT and OCU.

 

[Arsalan]

All the talk of getting a new platform in Yak for supporting F-16 in precision attack against Taliban, what about the JF-17?

I understand that the primary role that Yak will be bought for is that of training aircraft but still why there is no mention of JF-17 when we talk about he on going operation? Is the JF-17 not capable of such precision ground attack missions to support F-16 or even to take the job from F-16 and spare the F-16 for more important duties? (to preserve the air frame and keep them operational for longer period of time, considering our relations with US).

If we are implying this, It raises a pretty serious question, one that will effect the sales and image of the plane as well as PAC, we were told that the Block-I were not that good at A2A role initially, now if it is that they cannot even support in CAS and precision attack duties, what were they actually good at?

 

[DrWatson775]

All the talk of getting a new platform in Yak for supporting F-16 in precision attack against Taliban, what about the JF-17?

I understand that the primary role that Yak will be bought for is that of training aircraft but still why there is no mention of JF-17 when we talk about he on going operation? Is the JF-17 not capable of such precision ground attack missions to support F-16 or even to take the job from F-16 and spare the F-16 for more important duties? (to preserve the air frame and keep them operational for longer period of time, considering our relations with US).

If we are implying this, It raises a pretty serious question, one that will effect the sales and image of the plane as well as PAC, we were told that the Block-I were not that good at A2A role initially, now if it is that they cannot even support in CAS and precision attack duties, what were they actually good at?

The block I can drop LGBs on a target if painted by another aircraft like the F16. Hopefully the block II will paint and bomb on its own.

 

[araz]

All the talk of getting a new platform in Yak for supporting F-16 in precision attack against Taliban, what about the JF-17?

I understand that the primary role that Yak will be bought for is that of training aircraft but still why there is no mention of JF-17 when we talk about he on going operation? Is the JF-17 not capable of such precision ground attack missions to support F-16 or even to take the job from F-16 and spare the F-16 for more important duties? (to preserve the air frame and keep them operational for longer period of time, considering our relations with US).

If we are implying this, It raises a pretty serious question, one that will effect the sales and image of the plane as well as PAC, we were told that the Block-I were not that good at A2A role initially, now if it is that they cannot even support in CAS and precision attack duties, what were they actually good at?

Very valid POINT which is why I asked. I keep hearing T38 and yak both of which dont make sense with the twin seat JFT.By the way can anyone who knows confirm that the gifr from Turkey is T38 rather than T 37 which we could use for parts.

The block I can drop LGBs on a target if painted by another aircraft like the F16. Hopefully the block II will paint and bomb on its own.

I suspect there is a lot going on behind the scenes and more fighters are being used. The 16s are specifically mentioned for a purpose.

 

[Arsalan]

Very valid POINT which is why I asked. I keep hearing T38 and yak both of which dont make sense with the twin seat JFT.By the way can anyone who knows confirm that the gifr from Turkey is T38 rather than T 37 which we could use for parts.


I suspect there is a lot going on behind the scenes and more fighters are being used. The 16s are specifically mentioned for a purpose.

Sir @fatman17 confirms it to be a typo and claims that it is T-37 that are being gifted (which can be used for parts or if upgraded as per reports, can replace the existing fleet with current planes being used for parts)

 

[DrWatson775]

All the talk of getting a new platform in Yak for supporting F-16 in precision attack against Taliban, what about the JF-17?

I understand that the primary role that Yak will be bought for is that of training aircraft but still why there is no mention of JF-17 when we talk about he on going operation? Is the JF-17 not capable of such precision ground attack missions to support F-16 or even to take the job from F-16 and spare the F-16 for more important duties? (to preserve the air frame and keep them operational for longer period of time, considering our relations with US).

If we are implying this, It raises a pretty serious question, one that will effect the sales and image of the plane as well as PAC, we were told that the Block-I were not that good at A2A role initially, now if it is that they cannot even support in CAS and precision attack duties, what were they actually good at?

In COIN ops the traditional air and artillery support of bombing or shelling fixed coordinates is getting almost obsolete. In an on-going ground op dynamic targeting is the name of the game with direct contact between commanders on the ground and air assets. This is where time-on-station for an air asset is of the utmost importance so they can be called in when needed. The targets are illuminated by ground troops and guided armament is delivered from the air. I hope the JF17s are able to do this at some point...... maybe they already are able?

 

[araz]

In COIN ops the traditional air and artillery support of bombing or shelling fixed coordinates is getting almost obsolete. In an on-going ground op dynamic targeting is the name of the game with direct contact between commanders on the ground and air assets. This is where time-on-station for an air asset is of the utmost importance so they can be called in when needed. The targets are illuminated by ground troops and guided armament is delivered from the air. I hope the JF17s are able to do this at some point...... maybe they already are able?

I think such a role is ideal for drones and this is the direction one should be proceeding in.

 

[Quwa]

All the talk of getting a new platform in Yak for supporting F-16 in precision attack against Taliban, what about the JF-17?

I understand that the primary role that Yak will be bought for is that of training aircraft but still why there is no mention of JF-17 when we talk about he on going operation? Is the JF-17 not capable of such precision ground attack missions to support F-16 or even to take the job from F-16 and spare the F-16 for more important duties? (to preserve the air frame and keep them operational for longer period of time, considering our relations with US).

If we are implying this, It raises a pretty serious question, one that will effect the sales and image of the plane as well as PAC, we were told that the Block-I were not that good at A2A role initially, now if it is that they cannot even support in CAS and precision attack duties, what were they actually good at?

Isn't it generally expensive to deploy fighters? I think the rationale for another CAS platform is stemming from that reality. In the case where heavy and sustained CAS is needed, a full fighter platform might not be a good choice. It'd be much more affordable and effective (from a sustained CAS perspective) to deploy a bunch of EMB-314s or Hurkus-C, especially when the enemy lacks anti-air capabilities.

 

[fatman17]

So is this interest genuine or is it another wishlist "beyond the reach of my pockets" item. I know that the item has cropped up multiple times in previous debates on CAS. BUT beyoñd the talibans do they have any other utility beyond being training aircrafts. Response would be appreciated.
Regards.
Araz

The ef sola is very expensive to operate in the ongoing ops but we have no other tried and tested platform. The capabilities of the Yak130 are very intriguing and it seems to be a great fit. All the talk of PAF’S interest is coming from Russian sources . A single squadron of Yaks would be an all round benefit for the PAF. Having said all that finances due play a major role in our procurement process.

 

[fatman17]

The ef sola is very expensive to operate in the ongoing ops but we have no other tried and tested platform. The capabilities of the Yak130 are very intriguing and it seems to be a great fit. All the talk of PAF’S interest is coming from Russian sources . A single squadron of Yaks would be an all round benefit for the PAF. Having said all that finances due play a major role in our procurement process.

The JFT is a evolving platform and would and should be a ideal platform in the interdiction /CAS role.

 

[Donatello]

The ef sola is very expensive to operate in the ongoing ops but we have no other tried and tested platform. The capabilities of the Yak130 are very intriguing and it seems to be a great fit. All the talk of PAF’S interest is coming from Russian sources . A single squadron of Yaks would be an all round benefit for the PAF. Having said all that finances due play a major role in our procurement process.

Anything the F-16 can do in Air to Ground, JF-17 can as well.....it too can carry Laser Pods and guide LGBs...so why are we not using them much? It would be good to at least refine and use the JF-17's ATG capability?

 

[ZAC1]

Anything the F-16 can do in Air to Ground, JF-17 can as well.....it too can carry Laser Pods and guide LGBs...so why are we not using them much? It would be good to at least refine and use the JF-17's ATG capability?

just to show uncle sam we are using ur given stuff thats why u will only hear the word f-16

 

[Donatello]

just to show uncle sam we are using ur given stuff thats why u will only hear the word f-16

I know, but i am not sure why PAF has been mum on JF-17 OPs in this war. Both the squadrons of JF-17 are based at Peshawar, so it's pretty easy for the aircraft to routinely fly from there and come back after bombing the talibitches.

 

[fatman17]

Combat Effectiveness of Yak-130 Enhanced

Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Sunday, August 30, 2015.

Irkut has demonstrated Yak-130 trainer aircraft fitted with laser rangefinder intended for visual identification of ground and surface targets and measurement of slant range to them at the MAKS-2015.

Russia has upgraded the the Yak-130 (tail number 01)in a bid to showcase it as not just a trainer but also as a light attack aircraft to its foreign customers.

According to a press statement on Aug 28, the presence of the laser range finder allows for combat use of the Yak-130 in difficult terrain (mountains, gorges), improve the accuracy of determining the coordinates of the operational objectives and the application of existing nomenclature aircraft weapons.

Yak-130 can carry guided and unguided weapons, which allows using the aircraft, both during training and in combat missions.
The total mass of the combat load stored at nine external hardpoints - 3000 kg. The open architecture avionics enables you to extend the range of weapons by looking airborne weapons of Russian and foreign developments.