PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[Bratva]

If war broke out in near future, The best bet for PAF to neutralize all the Indian bases near to it's border as soon as possible with the help of ALCM LACM and SRBM and MRBM. This way IAF will be forced to go on to back foot and will have to defend their own airspace instead of making agressive movements

 

[Jungibaaz]

sir ji,if same goes then india can use afghan airspace too.
+
india is going to have independent forces which will take care of their positions.

I'm sure neither of them would like to see Babur and Ra'ad cruise missiles headed their way.

that goes for Afghanistan and Turkmenistan.

 

[abdulbarijan]

the context has been created by you not by us. You are assuming that IAF will divert her asset because of PLAAF fear in case of a war with Pakistan. I simply said that China will only supply you goodies nothing else. they won't fought for you.

dude i again refer you back to my posts

Also in an Indo-PAK situation China will easily play a part , even if China doesn't attack directly or gives open support to pakistan ,even then IAF will have to put some squadrons on the chinese border cuz there is freaking big airforce armed with high tech goodies at the other side
Its better to be safe than sorry

"and Pakistan wouldn't actually be relying,it will be IAF's steps to make sure that PLAAF doesn't make a back door entry..."

they dont say China will attack India in case of war
let me put it to you this way...lets suppose there is an indo-pak war (God forbid)
and like u say IAF and India will focus all her assets towards Pakistan and do nothing to protect the border with China...meaning have no squadrons there etc..
isn't that giving out an open invitation to a country that u have gone to war with ...
thats basically my point and seeing that IAF is a professional institute It will there fore do atleast something to have a back up plan if this kind of a situation arises wouldn't it...
thats why I think that they will divide some assets towards the chinese border to atleast be able to cope to a threat if it arises...thats was my point all along..

 

[majesticpankaj]

well lets see then the current production model based on PT-04 was first tested in April of 2006,and we started serieal production started in 2009..so a gap of just 3 years...
so I fail to understand how we cant build a newer block in 2 years if we can move to production in just 3 years..
simply put if you need 5 years to do something,some else might need just 3 , so the reference to MMRCA is irrelevant since the basic point of urs was on JFT.

yeah I know$5.1B Proposed Sales, Upgrades, Weapons Pakistan’s F-16s
and why is that...what if the army pours in some of its fund to the airforce like it has in the past..but then again some of you call F-16 blk-50/52's a gift from USA .. its history now we have an Indian member indirectly admitting that PAF bought all that stuff from its own pocket..

yup--I corrected it out in my previous post..


the same point can be said about u..
-China cannot play a part in an indopak war
-JF-17 II will never see the light in the time frame claimed

A lot of assumptions my friends

JF-17 and block 2 will able to compete against second best fighter in the world if we assume that they will be operational in next 2-3 years and I admit that it has a good probability.

in next 5-7 years you also need to retire your vintage aircraft which are using 60s and 70s technology . agreed ??

Now look at the procurement of IAF in the same time frame

SU30 mki
mig29 naval version
Tejas (optimistically from 2014)
MCRA

Upgradation of all major platform (super su30 mki, mig 29, mirage 2000, jaguars engine upgradation)

These deals are done and everyone can see it. they are not based on speculation and assumptions. And don't forget the weapon systems we will get will be top notch.

Last point: China will only take care of your supplies not will come into war.. do you think 100bn usd is a joke ??
Check out during kargil, operation parakram and after mumbai attack what kind of assurances were given by china to pakistan ??

JF_17 block 2 -- will have her day but not so early my dear freind

 

[Jungibaaz]

@storm force-- u have aptly put

F-16 block 60 with AESA radar which is a generations ahead of pakistani falcons is already rejected by IAF in favor of Rafale and typhoon. I don't see paf's falcon in such a small quantity is a threat

put it into context.... give the F-16 AWACS support, give it the range of combat against an MKI similar to that of which and Indo-Pak war would allow it. F-16s suddenly become a formidable fighting force, they can defend the airspace against MKI very well.

PAF hasn't got involved in the numbers game for obvious reasons, you may see F-16s flying in groups where one is painting and feeding the armed F-16s, one F-16 dedicated for electronic attack.... etc.

 

[majesticpankaj]

dude i again refer you back to my posts

they dont say China will attack India in case of war
let me put it to you this way...lets suppose there is an indo-pak war (God forbid)
and like u say IAF and India will focus all her assets towards Pakistan and do nothing to protect the border with China...meaning have no squadrons there etc..
isn't that giving out an open invitation to a country that u have gone to war with ...
thats basically my point and seeing that IAF is a professional institute It will there fore do atleast something to have a back up plan if this kind of a situation arises wouldn't it...
thats why I think that they will divide some assets towards the chinese border to atleast be able to cope to a threat if it arises...thats was my point all along..

do you believe that by keeping few squadrons at chinese border we can take on mighty PLAAF. no way mate,

Be pragmatic my friend -- In case of a war with pak... PLAAF will have all the luxury to do whatever they want (ofcourse before we getting MCRA)

In present case we can't face both two front war-- so it doesn't make sense to keep few of our assets at eastern front

 

[SQ8]

A lot of assumptions my friends

JF-17 and block 2 will able to compete against second best fighter in the world if we assume that they will be operational in next 2-3 years and I admit that it has a good probability.

in next 5-7 years you also need to retire your vintage aircraft which are using 60s and 70s technology . agreed ??

Now look at the procurement of IAF in the same time frame

SU30 mki
mig29 naval version
Tejas (optimistically from 2014)
MCRA

Upgradation of all major platform (super su30 mki, mig 29, mirage 2000, jaguars engine upgradation)

These deals are done and everyone can see it. they are not based on speculation and assumptions. And don't forget the weapon systems we will get will be top notch.

Last point: China will only take care of your supplies not will come into war.. do you think 100bn usd is a joke ??
Check out during kargil, operation parakram and after mumbai attack what kind of assurances were given by china to pakistan ??

JF_17 block 2 -- will have her day but not so early my dear freind

I can recall a similar post by one of your countrymen about the JF-17 prototype on another Pakistani forum back in early 2003.
I am not saying that the block II will be ready next year.. or the year after that.. or when.
Anyway, its a members call to underestimate or overestimate..

 

[majesticpankaj]

put it into context.... give the F-16 AWACS support, give it the range of combat against an MKI similar to that of which and Indo-Pak war would allow it. F-16s suddenly become a formidable fighting force, they can defend the airspace against MKI very well.

PAF hasn't got involved in the numbers game for obvious reasons, you may see F-16s flying in groups where one is painting and feeding the armed F-16s, one F-16 dedicated for electronic attack.... etc.

My friend -- we also have the support of whatever you have AWACS, SAM etc.. we have better and huge resources.

Again 60 vintage sanctioned prone f-16s are no contest of 150+mki. read the numbers my friend they are resources.

 

[SQ8]

My friend -- we also have the support of whatever you have AWACS, SAM etc.. we have better and huge resources.

Again 60 vintage sanctioned prone f-16s are no contest of 150+mki. read the numbers my friend they are resources.

The fact that the F-16's are being upgraded to a VERY modern status is known to you, yet you chose to ignore that and insist on parroting your line.

 

[majesticpankaj]

I can recall a similar post by one of your countrymen about the JF-17 prototype on another Pakistani forum back in early 2003.
I am not saying that the block II will be ready next year.. or the year after that.. or when.
Anyway, its a members call to underestimate or overestimate..

I am not underestimating or overestimating her capabilities -- the point it will take her sweet time to get mature. the same is applicable to MCRA -- Indians will be confident and able to utilize her full potential after many years of her induction

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

The fact that the F-16's are being upgraded to a VERY modern status is known to you, yet you chose to ignore that and insist on parroting your line.

@Santro--You simply dodged the other part --"Sanctioned prone"

Aren't you the one who on this very forum said that F-16 won't able to make a lot of sortie because lack of spare parts - and their will AMRAAM become useless ??

 

[SQ8]

I am not underestimating or overestimating her capabilities -- the point it will take her sweet time to get mature. the same is applicable to MCRA -- Indians will be confident and able to utilize her full potential after many years of her induction

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------



@Santro--You simply dodged the other part --"Sanctioned prone"

Aren't you the one who on this very forum said that F-16 won't able to make a lot of sortie because lack of spare parts - and their will AMRAAM become useless ??

Yes.. but sanctioned prone does not mean they will not be able to make enough sorties that count.
How long will a conflict last? a week... two?.
I said the AMRAAMS will be less effective against the Americans.. against a MKI.. they'll blow it out of the sky without a glitch.

 

[JohnyD]

There is no need for you to bother yourself and find a possible answer...

reasons being...
...MRCA is not being inducted to counter any threat from PAF..there was no imbalancing threat in the past and there will not be in near future....MKI can take down any of Fighter being flown by PAF, at least next 10 years...

MRCA...FGFA...are only for Chinese....our number one enemy!

 

[abdulbarijan]

A lot of assumptions my friends

JF-17 and block 2 will able to compete against second best fighter in the world if we assume that they will be operational in next 2-3 years and I admit that it has a good probability.

JF-17 II itself maybe cant but with the AWACS coverage,ground support and SAMS coverage can give any 4-4.5 generation a major run for its money any day.

in next 5-7 years you also need to retire your vintage aircraft which are using 60s and 70s technology . agreed ??

We are doing it as we speak,JF-17 already has already replaced A-5's.

Now look at the procurement of IAF in the same time frame

SU30 mki
mig29 naval version
Tejas (optimistically from 2014)
MCRA

Upgradation of all major platform (super su30 mki, mig 29, mirage 2000, jaguars engine upgradation)

hmm same apllies for PAF then if your considering MMRCA as well then you should consider
JF-17 BLK-I,II and stealthy JFT
then the MLU upgrades
then also the FC-20 which Mr. pshamim believes has an increased initia order to 58 from the previous 36 and more obviously will be added afterwards considering what IAF is doing at the time..

These deals are done and everyone can see it. they are not based on speculation and assumptions. And don't forget the weapon systems we will get will be top notch.

Thats the difference,you boast about your new procurements and how IAF will be stronger,but then from outta no where some deal is done as a response from PAF side which then is much more of a threat then previously considered for example just consider JFT which was basically taken by some as a F-7 replacement,check what it turned out to be,it is better than F-16A/B which at the time was the best we had.
then take a look at J-10,while some thought that it was a mistake the JF-17 and that if China had offered PAF J-10 PAF should have gone for that instead of investing on JF-17,take a look at what that turned out to be ..PAF now getting FC-20's is confirmed just the quantity is unknown..whether we go for 36,58 or 150 is entirely up to PAF's requirements

Last point: China will only take care of your supplies not will come into war.. do you think 100bn usd is a joke ??
Check out during kargil, operation parakram and after mumbai attack what kind of assurances were given by china to pakistan ??

JF_17 block 2 -- will have her day but not so early my dear freind

for the last time im not saying china will come into war,just check what i have siad nearly 3 times in 3 posts..ok u shouldve checked out the response of China to USA after the OBL drama...
again that is speculation on ur part isn't it...

 

[majesticpankaj]

Yes.. but sanctioned prone does not mean they will not be able to make enough sorties that count.
How long will a conflict last? a week... two?.
I said the AMRAAMS will be less effective against the Americans.. against a MKI.. they'll blow it out of the sky without a glitch.

Santro--

If I remembered currently you were having the discussion with Mastankhan on indo pak scenario and you did say that F-16 won't be able to make enough sorties because India because of spare part issues.

The point is F-16 has very limited capabilities against IAF and don't forget the resources we have -- it is like 3:1 vis a vis f16 and mki. also mki enjoys the longer legs

 

[DARKY]

That off course depends on scale costs..
Chinese labor costs are fairly cheap, so material costs come into mind.
There is a particular DSP of US design but reverse engineered by the Chinese ..
The US original would cost me $45 in bulk.. the Chinese version.. costs me $8..
so that 10 million is a little extravagant.. I would suppose 3 million at the max.

I don't know If China have started producing GaAs Transistor of adequate size in bulk (mass production)... unless they do that the costs will remain High... as far I know perhaps only US have such facilities.... and going by the living standards, we have been watching a continuous increase in labour costs in China in recent few years which is supposed to increase exponentially... after all they are the 2nd largest economy.