PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[danger007]

Yes we can! you should remember the last time the pride of IAF (SU-30 MKI) violated Pakistan's airspace it got locked by 80's F-16 (P.S we didn't even had Saab 2000 back then)

Grande Strategy

Now its really funny that when some indian optimists talk about M2k (upgraded) and Mig-29 SMT upgrades cuz they have quite some time to go and will be complete by 2013-14 time frame by the time PAF will also have MLU upgrades and JF-17 BLK-II , possibly 18 more block 52's with FC-20's if the insider is correct...
then consider ZDK-03 with FC-20's and JF-17 blk I,II
and SAAB 2000 with 45 MLU upgraded+18 block 52's + 18 more = 81 F-16 Block 50/52's
then consider near 100+ Block I/II JF-17's
and possibly a squadron of FC-20's by 2014
and of course with ground support and C4I
This right here is one heck of a primarily defensive airforce with exceptional goodies and excellent pilots...
this right here is even before the MMRCA inductions start...
after that there is a clear road map for PAF,replacing all the older goodies with JF-17/FC-20 and focusing on the next big thing the J-2X or J-XX

Also in an Indo-PAK situation China will easily play a part , even if China doesn't attack directly or gives open support to pakistan ,even then IAF will have to put some squadrons on the chinese border cuz there is freaking big airforce armed with high tech goodies at the other side
Its better to be safe than sorry...

Again ... provide source else stop talking BS.

---------- Post added at 11:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

in that time PAF F-16's doesn't have BVR capabilities but MKI. lol

 

[majesticpankaj]

Yes we can! you should remember the last time the pride of IAF (SU-30 MKI) violated Pakistan's airspace it got locked by 80's F-16 (P.S we didn't even had Saab 2000 back then)

Grande Strategy

Now its really funny that when some indian optimists talk about M2k (upgraded) and Mig-29 SMT upgrades cuz they have quite some time to go and will be complete by 2013-14 time frame by the time PAF will also have MLU upgrades and JF-17 BLK-II , possibly 18 more block 52's with FC-20's if the insider is correct...
then consider ZDK-03 with FC-20's and JF-17 blk I,II
and SAAB 2000 with 45 MLU upgraded+18 block 52's + 18 more = 81 F-16 Block 50/52's
then consider near 100+ Block I/II JF-17's
and possibly a squadron of FC-20's by 2014
and of course with ground support and C4I
This right here is one heck of a primarily defensive airforce with exceptional goodies and excellent pilots...
this right here is even before the MMRCA inductions start...
after that there is a clear road map for PAF,replacing all the older goodies with JF-17/FC-20 and focusing on the next big thing the J-2X or J-XX

Also in an Indo-PAK situation China will easily play a part , even if China doesn't attack directly or gives open support to pakistan ,even then IAF will have to put some squadrons on the chinese border cuz there is freaking big airforce armed with high tech goodies at the other side
Its better to be safe than sorry...

another fanboyish stuff from our friends-- mere speculation on the procurement of jets -- no substantiated proof of most of the things

India will take time to procure the jets but for pakistan it is just like making cookies-- jf-17 block 2 (a combo of typhoon and f-16 ) will come out in numbers in 2-3 years

where the boyz you were saying that 50 thunders will be delivers in 6 months ??

If you guys need to understand the difficulty of procurement process-- let me give an example
India will sign the MCRA in next 2-3 years but expected delivery of first batch is august 2015 , although both the aircraft have established capacities. this shows how much time it takes to get high end products.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Please show some proof of what you are saying from any neutral source. And you really think when IAF will attack it will do with two fighters. It will be a massive attack using whatever we have at our disposal from Land and Sea.

Secondly....the worst thing you can do to your country is relying on other countries in wartime. Also keep in mind India's friend list is longer than Pakistan's

nah its up to u to believe the link or not cuz im just too lazy to find another link...
ok lets consider a massive attack...IMO that cant happen not with the deterrent of nukes and a state of the art missile system which is growing rapidly...
also with the nuclear threshold now lowered (thanks to Nasr)
thats not the point even if you have such a big friend list you dont have a all weathered ally with such a military which has a border with Pakistan now do u..
and Pakistan wouldn't actually be relying,it will be IAF's steps to make sure that PLAAF doesn't make a back door entry...

 

[majesticpankaj]

nah its up to u to believe the link or not cuz im just too lazy to find another link...
ok lets consider a massive attack...IMO that cant happen not with the deterrent of nukes and a state of the art missile system which is growing rapidly...
also with the nuclear threshold now lowered (thanks to Nasr)
thats not the point even if you have such a big friend list you dont have a all weathered ally with such a military which has a border with Pakistan now do u..
and Pakistan wouldn't actually be relying,it will be IAF's steps to make sure that PLAAF doesn't make a back door entry...

when did the last time china helped you during war ??

 

[danger007]

@Indian friends: ignore this fanboy abdulbarijan statements...

 

[SQ8]

when did the last time china helped you during war ??

tell me something mahraj.. how would have a certain war gone had China not supplied free jets and artillery?

Did American soldier fight on the front line in the arab ISraeli war?

 

[majesticpankaj]

tell me something mahraj.. how would have a certain war gone had China not supplied free jets and artillery?

Did American soldier fight on the front line in the arab ISraeli war?

Dear sir, When was the last time china participated in a pakistan's war against India ?

Few fanboy are betting their hedge on PLAAF intervention whose chances are nil. Face the reality-- you have to face the music alone

 

[abdulbarijan]

another fanboyish stuff from our friends-- mere speculation on the procurement of jets -- no substantiated proof of most of the things

Well Im one of the few ones that actually say that I am a fan boy and the reason I come here is to get knowledge through debates etc at the end of the day you just end up being the drive for more knowledge so thanks for that favor..

India will take time to procure the jets but for pakistan it is just like making cookies-- jf-17 block 2 (a combo of typhoon and f-16 ) will come out in numbers in 2-3 years

considering PAC is already producing the JF-17 and we have 33-36 as of now,26 of which were produced by PAC,the first one was rolled out in November of 2009 after two years we have a rate of 13 A/C per year for PAC
What if chinese come in to the picture that is what gets one intrigued,If PAC can produce 13 a/c per year than China combined can sure as hell produce 40 atleast a year..Now optimists are every where some did say that 50 would be delivered by 6 months which is hard to believe and i personally believed the time frame to be likely 1-1.5 years but still just look at the last 3 years and what PAF got...
27 JF-17's.
18 F-16 block 50/52
SAAB 2000
ZDK-03 (will/or already has arrived this year)
IL-78
so considering the fact that PT-06 was there from 2006,SBP JFT's were delivered in march 2008,and just two serial production JFT's in 2009,that still leaves 2-3 years for work on advancing the jet further...

where the boyz you were saying that 50 thunders will be delivers in 6 months ??

These guys are every where eg. there is something called the LCA which according to some was currently supposed to have replace the Mig-21's but instead its having problems and has postponed FOC by 1 more year to December 2013

If you guys need to understand the difficulty of procurement process-- let me give an example
India will sign the MCRA in next 2-3 years but expected delivery of first batch is august 2015 , although both the aircraft have established capacities. this shows how much time it takes to get high end products.

like I said just take a look at what PAF has gone through in the last 3 years you will get the answer..

 

[SQ8]

Dear sir, When was the last time china participated in a pakistan's war against India ?

Few fanboy are betting their hedge on PLAAF intervention whose chances are nil. Face the reality-- you have to face the music alone

Those people are fanboys, those getting excited over fanboys are also fanboys.

China intervention in an Indo-Pak war would be limited to emergency weapons supply.
Tell me, if somebody gives you a gun to use against your enemy.. is that not participation?
Or do you have some other name for it.. do tell.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Those people are fanboys, those getting excited over fanboys are also fanboys.

China intervention in an Indo-Pak war would be limited to emergency weapons supply.
Tell me, if somebody gives you a gun to use against your enemy.. is that not participation?
Or do you have some other name for it.. do tell.

Santro, If you have read above most I have never denied that china won't help pakistan in case of a war but you rightly said in terms of supply only but few pakistanis friends believe that PLAAF will come into picture from north- eastern front and india has to divert her forces there also is merely a wishful thinking.

In case of a war India will attack with her full force on western front.

 

[SQ8]

Santro, If you have read above most I have never denied that china won't help pakistan in case of a war but you rightly said in terms of supply only but few pakistanis friends believe that PLAAF will come into picture from north- eastern front and india has to divert her forces there also is merely a wishful thinking.

In case of a war India will attack with her full force on western front.

Let me put this clear..If Pakistan goes to war with India,China will NOT step in.. If China goes to war with India.. Pakistan will leave no time to exploit the opportunity to get Kashmir or else..
India has 80% of its military infrastructure aimed at Pakistan, where else would it use its force??? Indian military planners have only recently woken to the thought of a Chinese threat.
and lets not discuss war scenario's further.. rather the change in PAF doctrine and Order of Battle needed to counter the induction of the MMCRA...

 

[majesticpankaj]

Well Im one of the few ones that actually say that I am a fan boy and the reason I come here is to get knowledge through debates etc at the end of the day you just end up being the drive for more knowledge so thanks for that favor..


considering PAC is already producing the JF-17 and we have 33-36 as of now,26 of which were produced by PAC,the first one was rolled out in November of 2009 after two years we have a rate of 13 A/C per year for PAC
What if chinese come in to the picture that is what gets one intrigued,If PAC can produce 13 a/c per year than China combined can sure as hell produce 40 atleast a year..Now optimists are every where some did say that 50 would be delivered by 6 months which is hard to believe and i personally believed the time frame to be likely 1-1.5 years but still just look at the last 3 years and what PAF got...
27 JF-17's.
18 F-16 block 50/52
SAAB 2000
ZDK-03 (will/or already has arrived this year)
IL-78
so considering the fact that PT-06 was there from 2006,SBP JFT's were delivered in march 2008,and just two serial production JFT's in 2009,that still leaves 2-3 years for work on advancing the jet further...



These guys are every where eg. there is something called the LCA which according to some was currently supposed to have replace the Mig-21's but instead its having problems and has postponed FOC by 1 more year to December 2014


like I said just take a look at what PAF has gone through in the last 3 years you will get the answer..

Thanks for bringing some maturity in your argument

The problem with your argument is there is lots of ifs and buts

even china can't produce with a rate you are talking about. I have simply give you an example of MCRA that it will also take full 4 years to get first batch. a lot of testing and compatibility tests have to done to get them operational on the field. It is not like assembling a PC.

do you still believe pakistan would get 18 f-16 from US. do you even know the cost of your previous purchase ? a fragile economy like pakistan can't afford it.

* agreed on LCA part but it dec 2013.

* again my friend don't feed us with speculations.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Santro, If you have read above most I have never denied that china won't help pakistan in case of a war but you rightly said in terms of supply only but few pakistanis friends believe that PLAAF will come into picture from north- eastern front and india has to divert her forces there also is merely a wishful thinking.

In case of a war India will attack with her full force on western front.

Check out the reply and the context

Also in an Indo-PAK situation China will easily play a part , even if China doesn't attack directly or gives open support to pakistan ,even then IAF will have to put some squadrons on the chinese border cuz there is freaking big airforce armed with high tech goodies at the other side
Its better to be safe than sorry

"and Pakistan wouldn't actually be relying,it will be IAF's steps to make sure that PLAAF doesn't make a back door entry..."

 

[majesticpankaj]

Let me put this clear..If Pakistan goes to war with India,China will NOT step in.. If China goes to war with India.. Pakistan will leave no time to exploit the opportunity to get Kashmir or else..
India has 80% of its military infrastructure aimed at Pakistan, where else would it use its force??? Indian military planners have only recently woken to the thought of a Chinese threat.
and lets not discuss war scenario's further.. rather the change in PAF doctrine and Order of Battle needed to counter the induction of the MMCRA...

santro, I think we both agree that PLAAF won't come into picture in case of indo-pak war.

apart from speculation can you tell us the future procurement planning (next 4-5 years) of PAF to counter the mcra threat ? thnaks

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

Check out the reply and the context

the context has been created by you not by us. You are assuming that IAF will divert her asset because of PLAAF fear in case of a war with Pakistan. I simply said that China will only supply you goodies nothing else. they won't fought for you.

 

[Manticore]

there are already a couple of hypothetical air battle threads in the mil. aviation section please dont make this thread as one of those

we dont know which fighter india chooses, we dont know what the specs and numbers the paf j10b will have , we are still speculating if the blk52/mlu f16s will go more than 66

all i see here is that iaf has/will have double engined 4.75 generation fighters vs paf will/has single engined 4.5 generation fighters which eventhough will be specialized in precision attack , would not be able to make a dent in indian airspace as chinese tech is unproven

WE GET IT--- dont repeat this same speculative mantra all over again

iaf has openly placed the bid and the its requirements [how many years now?]-- its been some months since 2 fighters were finalized into the second phase---- the more years the iaf is taking to induct the mmrca, actually is giving time for the jft blk2 and j10b to mature and thats a silver lining for pakistan