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PAF's possible answer to MRCA

A condition of unrest between China and India can only happen during a war with Pakistan, if Indian airforce accidentally crosses the International border with China & some sort of mishap happens ,in such circumstances PLAAF can retaliate.

Meanwhile, PAF fighterjets on the other hand can a get a free pass on emergency basis.(A fruit for thought.;) )It's all a matter of trust and cooperation.
 
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A condition of unrest between China and India can only happen during a war with Pakistan, if Indian airforce accidentally crosses the International border with China & some sort of mishap happens ,in such circumstances PLAAF can retaliate.

Meanwhile, PAF fighterjets on the other hand can a get a free pass on emergency basis.(A fruit for thought.;) )It's all a matter of trust and cooperation.

:rofl::rofl::rofl: all the best :tup:
 
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Irrespective of the equipment fielded in an India/Pakistan scenario.....pilot factor cannot and must not be ignored. !!
 
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Let me put this clear..If Pakistan goes to war with India,China will NOT step in.. If China goes to war with India.. Pakistan will leave no time to exploit the opportunity to get Kashmir or else..
India has 80% of its military infrastructure aimed at Pakistan, where else would it use its force??? Indian military planners have only recently woken to the thought of a Chinese threat.
and lets not discuss war scenario's further.. rather the change in PAF doctrine and Order of Battle needed to counter the induction of the MMCRA...

if india goes in war then neither pakistan will come for china nor reverse is possible.Upto maximum they can increase the force at border but no faaltu panga at all.
1)india will be the largest trading partner of china near 2020 and both nations understand this.
2)For pakistan,china will never come..upto maximum increase in the troop deployment near border but never participate.
for more reference,have a look at the interviews of the former generals and senior journalist of your country.

and india will not go for direct war with any country.They will choose proxy war through afghanistan.it will be pakistan who will start war with india from eastern border.
 
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santro, I think we both agree that PLAAF won't come into picture in case of indo-pak war.

apart from speculation can you tell us the future procurement planning (next 4-5 years) of PAF to counter the mcra threat ? thnaks

Mahraj.. I cant reveal what I know is true, to what is public.. if I do know..
However, the PAF like any good airforce bases its strategies on its perceived threat.. and then manages whatever limited resources it has to counter that threat.
The Paf plan for procurement was centered around the JF-17 , the F-16 and J-10.. this was in 2005, after the gripen deal fell through. Still the plan remained till the mid of 2006.. which spurred a sudden change...why?. The PAF knew of the MKI numbers, the other assets.. and the IAF had not announced the MMRCA plan. What happened then.. is that the JF program was shifted to a higher gear.. with testing taking place in both China and Pakistan.. man power doubled.. You are already aware that there are two assembly lines for the JF.. a complete one in China.. and a co-produced one in Pakistan. Those are now increasing their throughput every quarter.. What the PAF has done to counter the MMRCA, and perhaps another purchase by the IAF is to increase the effectiveness of its planned force. By adding force multipliers and other means that will double the effectiveness of its assets.

Both the PAF and IAF are professional forces, they know their threats.. and play cat and mouse on each others abilities accordingly.. difference being.. the IAF has the luxury of resources that the PAF does not.. and it is a war of resources.. currently China comes in to offset that lack of resources.. but for how long is the question.

---------- Post added at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

if india goes in war then neither pakistan will come for china nor reverse is possible.Upto maximum they can increase the force at border but no faaltu panga at all.
1)india will be the largest trading partner of china near 2020 and both nations understand this.
2)For pakistan,china will never come..upto maximum increase in the troop deployment near border but never participate.
for more reference,have a look at the interviews of the former generals and senior journalist of your country.

and india will not go for direct war with any country.They will choose proxy war through afghanistan.it will be pakistan who will start war with india from eastern border.

Then it will be the third misadventure..
 
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Important point to consider:

In case of a indo-Pak war.... india will have to place its fighters on chinese border also!
Reasons:
1)Chinese may attack.
2)Chinese AF may send a few sorties just to threaten indians...
3)PAF may use Chinese airspace to attack important installations in NE of india.

Hence it iaf wouldnt place all its squadrons on indo-Pak border.Meaning PAF wouldnt place all the might of iaf! but india will always feel threatened... another advantage to PAF.


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So lets discuss the topic which is FC-20,JF-17 Blocks- MRCA for PAF.
 
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Then it will be the third misadventure..

of course it will be an blunder like kargil,65 etc...
so no option other than compromise on status quo and both countries should start to tell their public about the reality.
Brainwashing of public takes few years,let it to take place for 10-15 years and then solve kashmir issue.
 
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of course it will be an blunder like kargil,65 etc...
so no option other than compromise on status quo and both countries should start to tell their public about the reality.
Brainwashing of public takes few years,let it to take place for 10-15 years and then solve kashmir issue.

Yes, something will have to be worked out.. but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
 
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Important point to consider:

In case of a indo-Pak war.... india will have to place its fighters on chinese border also!
Reasons:
1)Chinese may attack.
2)Chinese AF may send a few sorties just to threaten indians...
3)PAF may use Chinese airspace to attack important installations in NE of india.

Hence it iaf wouldnt place all its squadrons on indo-Pak border.Meaning PAF wouldnt place all the might of iaf! but india will always feel threatened... another advantage to PAF.


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So lets discuss the topic which is FC-20,JF-17 Blocks- MRCA for PAF.

sir ji,if same goes then india can use afghan airspace too.
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india is going to have independent forces which will take care of their positions.
 
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Afghan airspace? LOL.. have u seen the border? iaf gets will have to cross Pak sea territory than into iran and into Afghanistan(which wont let u) nor will Iran... It would also be risky... risk of getting shot down in their journey by PAF?

And what independent forces r u talkin abt? does NE have its own airforce?

nopes,i was talking about base in tajakistan.it was discussed in the recent meeting 2-3 months ago.
mig-29 might be stationed there.
 
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Mods does this BS frm a bharti troll deserve a reply? if it doesnt! shouldnt this troll be served with an infraction or a warning?


@punkage.. son come up with facts or just get lost instead of getting personal... which is a disease found in u guys when u run out of arguements.

---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------



Afghan airspace? LOL.. have u seen the border? iaf gets will have to cross Pak sea territory than into iran and into Afghanistan(which wont let u) nor will Iran... It would also be risky... risk of getting shot down in their journey by PAF?

And what independent forces r u talkin abt? does NE have its own airforce?

PN -- first learn how to keep the discussion civil and on topic

For god's sake how you gonna use China airspace against Indian territory and why would china allow you and with what ? do you think that PLAAF will give their planes to PAF to operate ?? :rofl: do you understand the repercussion for india and china-- an open declaration of war. China won't do it. Stop your betting hedge on PLAAF.

There is no deal between cina and pakistan in case of a war

for your second part: India already has a airbase in Tajikistan-- we have the luxury
 
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Thanks for bringing some maturity in your argument

The problem with your argument is there is lots of ifs and buts
even china can't produce with a rate you are talking about. I have simply give you an example of MCRA that it will also take full 4 years to get first batch. a lot of testing and compatibility tests have to done to get them operational on the field. It is not like assembling a PC.
well lets see then the current production model based on PT-04 was first tested in April of 2006,and we started serieal production started in 2009..so a gap of just 3 years...
so I fail to understand how we cant build a newer block in 2 years if we can move to production in just 3 years..
simply put if you need 5 years to do something,some else might need just 3 , so the reference to MMRCA is irrelevant since the basic point of urs was on JFT.
do you still believe pakistan would get 18 f-16 from US. do you even know the cost of your previous purchase ? a fragile economy like pakistan can't afford it.
yeah I know$5.1B Proposed Sales, Upgrades, Weapons Pakistan’s F-16s
and why is that...what if the army pours in some of its fund to the airforce like it has in the past..but then again some of you call F-16 blk-50/52's a gift from USA .. its history now we have an Indian member indirectly admitting that PAF bought all that stuff from its own pocket..
* agreed on LCA part but it dec 2013.
yup--I corrected it out in my previous post..

* again my friend don't feed us with speculations.
the same point can be said about u..
-China cannot play a part in an indopak war
-JF-17 II will never see the light in the time frame claimed
 
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@santro--- why did a get a warning ?? Yesterday bossman and today Pakistani nationalist openly abusing us and you don't take any action ? strange !!!
 
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No doubt about that fact...However that is what is troubling me the most...You are hedging your bets on China and India equation...What if they did not partcipate in the manner you want them to????

The participation will be in the form of providing PAF with the supplies it needs on emergency basis. PAF is not basing its hedge on a PLAAF-IAF confrontation but any able analyst will be able to tell you that IAF like any other professional airforce will preserve strength on its Chinese border to protect its flank.

Anyhow these squadrons will not participate as long as we are able to achieve our objective which is controlling Pak Air-space...I don't see any logic of not using them even at the cost of loosing the objective...Keep in mind that we used our reserves for China way back in 71 war to achieve our objectives in East Bangladesh...

In 1971 China was getting ready to get annihilated by the Soviet 58th Army, they were convinced that they will attack and were coming up with a strategy to halt Soviet Armoured Columns which looked impossible at the time, thus India was free to move her forces as she pleased. This time the PLAAF is a totally different breed with much longer legged and able fighter aircrafts, the IAF commanders will off course have contingency plans in effect to try and tame the PLAAF at border if the latter decides to enter the war.

A good commander always bases his opinion on not what the enemy will do, but what the enemy can do. As a professional unit, i have no doubt that IAF implements the latter and will have contingency plans in effect to deal with this threat. A good example would be WW2, while the Red Army was getting slaughtered on the Eastern front she still kept 40 divisions intact on its Siberian front to protect her flank from Japan even though she never faced a threat from Japan.

Aren't you going to do the same??? Today multi-role is the mantra...

Air Defence, CAS and Limited Air Superiority will allow PAF to use its numbers more effectively while the IAF will have to come up with a solution to assign what fighters for what role depending on the circumstances but you can be sure that it will take a bite out of IAF's offensive air superiority punch.

Well we need to bench mark something to compate...If IAF cannot achieve 100% operational rate then how come PAF can??? In short the number game is still going to be the same...no????

PAF has a serviceability ratio of around 85-90%, this was verified by Air Cmdr Muradk. Part of the reason why IAF's serviceability ratio is lower compared to PAF because the main IAF offensive punch consists of MIG29's and SU30MKI's which require lots of maintenance compared to PAF's fighter fleet which compromises of aircraft with very high serviceability ratio.

MKI is not a maintenance nightmare.....Anyhow we always had Russian Aircrafts...

Sir it is, i have been following the developments of MKI for a very long time and the technicians have complained a lot about its maintenance. Its not only prerequisite to the MKI but to the SU30 design overall, its a huge beast which requires lots of fuel and lots of maintenance work.


Just look at the number of sorties we performed in 71...but then if you can tame the MKI's with right tactics and necessary force multipliers then why are you ignoring the same for IAF???

Off course; at the end of the day the side which is better prepared, executes its tactics better and has a lot of luck on its side will win the day.

I mean with right tactics and necessary force multiplier our so called 3 generation planes can also tame your F-16's and what not, no???

Off course, PAF's F7PG pilots zap our F16's on many occasions due to superior tactics. IAF's Mig21 Bisons scored hits against USAF F15's. Your 3rd Generation aircrafts will be more active in AD role rather than AS due to their short legs, IAF will likely use aircrafts that have longer legs and can carry sustained long missions.

Isn't the same true for IAF???

Huge difference whether you are on offensive or defensive posture, the defensive side will always have the advantage with a BVR weapon.

However how many planes do you have which can participate in BVR??? Anyways first of all with nukes in picture i doubt that IAF and PAF will have a full go at each other....So in that context i think PAF is well convered but in pure conventional terms i have my doubts....

In pure conventional terms, at the present i am pretty confident in PAF's abilities to defend the skies. There is a numerical disparity but there is not overwhelming conventional disparity on IAF's side and neither does the IAF possess an F22 in its arsenal that is a game changer. Anything that PAF can see on its radars is a fair game and will be targeted.
 
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PN -- first learn how to keep the discussion civil and on topic

For god's sake how you gonna use China airspace against Indian territory and why would china allow you and with what ? do you think that PLAAF will give their planes to PAF to operate ?? :rofl: do you understand the repercussion for india and china-- an open declaration of war. China won't do it. Stop your betting hedge on PLAAF.

There is no deal between cina and pakistan in case of a war

for your second part: India already has a airbase in Tajikistan-- we have the luxury

Yeah right...


Abt PAF using Chinese airspace... there is always a possibilty.. abt chinese jets.. they did transfer jets to PAF during Pak-india war didnt they?

Would iaf risk not placing a few sqds on the chinese border in case of a war? never!? Hence it will decrease the number of jets PAF will have to force? wouldnt it?

Abt Tajikistan... a few unarmed druv helicopters? would Tajikistan a brotherly country n a member of OIC allow india to place its fighters on their base? NO... would it like to jump into a war which is not hers? would it risk a bombing by PAF?Certainly not!
 
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