PAF victories against Israeli Air Force, kept secret for 25 years - Air Commodore (r) Khalid Chishti

[Beny Karachun]

Most of Israeli record that I could find was aircraft destroyed on the ground rather than air to air engagements

687 Jet fighters were destroyed in air-air combat since 1948 by Israel, hundreds more on ground.

 

[Beny Karachun]

You have too much time my friend...I dont want to tell you what to do with your time but I am sure you have better things to worry about. Let PAF deal with IAF.

The facts are there for every one to see 1974 was a long time ago IAF took opportunity of Religious holidays and rendered useless the Arab air forces as expected.

Even if the Arabs were at their best the IAF would still have been superior.

IAF was a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

IAF is a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

Do not attempt to convince any one how superior IAF is compared to its Direct counter parts.

The limited times PAF pilots flew against IAF...it ended like this.View attachment 717498

If I was to say IAF is PAF's lil b!chh I wont be wrong....well look at the picture again.

I don't know who Lutz is, but I don't remember Israeli pilots having a black David Star symbol, or their name written on a patch... otherwise it seems similar, but I don't know the real story behind it.

Leave that be, sending in your best pilots and as a result shooting down at most 4 Israeli jets, 2 of them being bombers, 3 of them being in 1967 which Israeli pilots were specifically instructed to not enter air battles until they destroy their intended ground targets, in any case, it doesn't mean "IAF is PAF's b!tch"

Believe me Giora Epstein would have rocked the world of any pilot you would match him against, it won't mean however that "a whole air force is another air force's b!tch"

 

[KaiserX]

What exactly did Pakistan gain from sending its pilots to fight against Israel?

Oh yeah full arab/palestinian support to Indias atrocities in IOC.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What exactly did Pakistan gain from sending its pilots to fight against Israel?

Oh yeah full arab/palestinian support to Indias atrocities in IOC.

We got the Palestinians embracing sanghi/rss:

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Jet fighters

Fighter jets are just taxis. The bite is what counts. Meaning the missiles and all that goes with them. You should read what the massive support provided by US under operation Nickel Grass provided. Particularly the latest Sidewinders which gave IAF the edge to anything the Egyptian Soviet supplied missiles had. As is want people just look at the teeth and ignore the tail behind it. And that tail was decidely American.

That pattern continues. The US supplied Israeli F-35s could take down the entire Arab airforces like flies and then have enough left over to wipe out the antiquated Pakistani F-16s of the PAF without even breaking a sweat. People all too often use that tired cliche. It's the man and not the weapon. Which is bolloxe.

A man with sword against a AK-47 means only one thing. A tin can Sherman against a German Konigstiger mean't only one thing. A biplane against a Spitfire mean't only one thing. And today a F-35 against Mirages or F-16s or Migs only means one thing.

What exactly did Pakistan gain from sending its pilots to fight against Israel?

Oh yeah full arab/palestinian support to Indias atrocities in IOC.

100%

 

[KaiserX]

Fighter jets are just taxis. The bite is what counts. Meaning the missiles and all that goes with them. You should read what the massive support provided by US under operation Nickel Grass provided. Particularly the latest Sidewinders which gave IAF the edge to anything the Egyptian Soviet supplied missiles had. As is want people just look at the teeth and ignore the tail behind it. And that tail was decidely American.

That pattern continues. The US supplied Israeli F-35s could take down the entire Arab airforces like flies and then have enough left over to wipe out the antiquated Pakistani F-16s of the PAF without even breaking a sweat. People all too often use that tired cliche. It's the man and not the weapon. Which is bolloxe.

A man with sword against a AK-47 means only one thing. A tin can Sherman against a German Konigstiger mean't only one thing. A biplane against a Spitfire mean't only one thing. And today a F-35 against Mirages or F-16s or Migs only means one thing.
100%

Sure the US supplied Israel, but that was in reaction to the Soviets supplying the Arabs. The Israelis paid their cards right and took advantage... who could blame them? Had the Israelis been supplied by the soviets then the US would have supplied the arabs, but at the end of the day it would have made little difference who had better equipment. At the end of the day arab troops were barbaric, untrained, unprofessional, and usually had low moral.

The Arabs had their best chance in 1948. They had superior weapons, training (arab legion), and international support. Yet they lost to the ragtag Hannageh who barely had even 8 obsolete mortars in their inventory from the Czechs. The Hagganeh would later go on to become the IDF...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The Arabs had their best chance in 1948. They had superior weapons, training (arab legion), and international support. Yet they lost to the ragtag Hannageh who barely had even 8 obsolete mortars in their inventory from the Czechs. The Hagganeh would later go on to become the IDF...

That is not quite way I would render it. Arab Legion did prove to be more combat effective then others but Arabs did not have a centralized command whereas Hagganeh etc had been preparing for this moment. There is even some evidence that British authorities leaned on side of the Jews despite officially acting impartial.

Lot of the Jews were combat veterans of WW2 and many Jewish organizations in Europe/America purchased and sent demobed WW2 excess weapons to help in Palestine.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Fighter jets are just taxis. The bite is what counts. Meaning the missiles and all that goes with them. You should read what the massive support provided by US under operation Nickel Grass provided. Particularly the latest Sidewinders which gave IAF the edge to anything the Egyptian Soviet supplied missiles had. As is want people just look at the teeth and ignore the tail behind it. And that tail was decidely American.

That pattern continues. The US supplied Israeli F-35s could take down the entire Arab airforces like flies and then have enough left over to wipe out the antiquated Pakistani F-16s of the PAF without even breaking a sweat. People all too often use that tired cliche. It's the man and not the weapon. Which is bolloxe.

A man with sword against a AK-47 means only one thing. A tin can Sherman against a German Konigstiger mean't only one thing. A biplane against a Spitfire mean't only one thing. And today a F-35 against Mirages or F-16s or Migs only means one thing.

First of all, you're wrong, fighter jets are countless times more expensive and hard to get than their ammunition.
Sidewinder had scored at most 5 hits against Arab fighter jets in 1973, so it doesn't matter how far more advanced the Sidewinder was relatively to anything the Arabs had to offer, because it contributed almost nothing to the war. AIM-9G, As advanced as you think it was, was still terrible, as all missiles were at that time. Egypt and Syria had the K-13, which was also bad.

But yes, again, I agree, Israel is far more advanced today and it keeps its technological edge.

That is not quite way I would render it. Arab Legion did prove to be more combat effective then others but Arabs did not have a centralized command whereas Hagganeh etc had been preparing for this moment. There is even some evidence that British authorities leaned on side of the Jews despite officially acting impartial.

Lot of the Jews were combat veterans of WW2 and many Jewish organizations in Europe/America purchased and sent demobed WW2 excess weapons to help in Palestine.

Huh? Are we talking about 1948? Israel had no US aid in 1948. Choose a war, don't hop between timelines to match your narrative.

 

[Michael Corleone]

687 Jet fighters were destroyed in air-air combat since 1948 by Israel, hundreds more on ground.

Can you break down the numbers of respective countries jet shot down?

 

[Yasser76]

I don't know who Lutz is, but I don't remember Israeli pilots having a black David Star symbol, or their name written on a patch... otherwise it seems similar, but I don't know the real story behind it.
View attachment 717519

View attachment 717520

Leave that be, sending in your best pilots and as a result shooting down at most 4 Israeli jets, 2 of them being bombers, 3 of them being in 1967 which Israeli pilots were specifically instructed to not enter air battles until they destroy their intended ground targets, in any case, it doesn't mean "IAF is PAF's b!tch"

Believe me Giora Epstein would have rocked the world of any pilot you would match him against, it won't mean however that "a whole air force is another air force's b!tch"

Yes, IDAF where fighting with their hands tied. That is certainly not the case in any air battle, in fact in 67 IDF struck first and enegaged Arab aircraft many times before attacking targets. This really is a pathetic attempt to excuse a loss in fair air to air combat. The more you post the more "Indian" Israel seems to become, and trust me, that is no compliment

 

[Nomad40]

I don't know who Lutz is, but I don't remember Israeli pilots having a black David Star symbol, or their name written on a patch... otherwise it seems similar, but I don't know the real story behind it.
View attachment 717519

View attachment 717520

Leave that be, sending in your best pilots and as a result shooting down at most 4 Israeli jets, 2 of them being bombers, 3 of them being in 1967 which Israeli pilots were specifically instructed to not enter air battles until they destroy their intended ground targets, in any case, it doesn't mean "IAF is PAF's b!tch"

Believe me Giora Epstein would have rocked the world of any pilot you would match him against, it won't mean however that "a whole air force is another air force's b!tch"

Benny, Giora Epstein was an outstanding Pilot but if you come with counter arguments as such then I have to mention the most bad *** fighter pilot...M.M. Alam. Any how you are drifting away from the point...which is PAF has confirmed and documented Kills against IAF and the IAF doesn't.

This doesn't render the IAF of being a formidable and tactically sound opponent.

 

[Last starfighter]

If you think Pakistani pilots had any impact on the war you're delusional, even at the very peak of your outrageous assumption of 11 Israeli jets shot down, this number is negligible, pales in comparison to the number of Arab jets shot down. The only one that ever stopped Israel in a war was Israel itself and the US.

The war was not lost, I said even with such dumb politicians, we still won

1300 dead including combatants. 750 Are combatants.

One day we will show you the difference between caring and not caring about collateral damage.

We were also under a British mandate, what's your point?

You make absolutely no sense

You think you're superior to them?

The US. The US told you that you are not facing Arab pilots any more. Now you are facing the best pilots in the world so now stop.
And you did
Away from PAF.
Zionism is a cancer on mankind
But the idiots don't know that Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism

 

[Last starfighter]

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!!!!!!............nowadays I am even starting to believe that those Pakistanis who consider Israel a threat and say nothing of india, are infact sanghi/idol-worshipping kuffars..........people like me and you are IN FACT the real Muslims. Not them.


Israel is NOT OUR enemy. It NEVER has been!!!!!!!!!.........when will the low IQ retarded misfits in our community realise this??????????............





The Israelis and Jews are superior to the Arabs. There is no doubt about that.

As the Israelis/Jews and Arabs are not the enemies of the Pakistani people and nation, I have NOTHING bad to say about either of you.

The Jew and the Arab are brothers

The Jew and the Arab are brothers

BBC News | SCI/TECH | Jews and Arabs are 'genetic brothers'

 

[Last starfighter]

Zionist speak with fork tongue

 

[Old School]

Ironically, many PAF combat pilots were based in Jordan at that time which is now a major Israeli ally in the Middle East. Russian stooge ZA Bhutto had a major role to put Pakistan against Israel in the Egyptian-Syrian adventure although Israel did nothing against Pakistan up until then. However, Israel did take revenge by actively supporting in the 1971 Indian invasion of East Pakistan by supplying logistics and intelligence.