PAF to induct EADS Offensive EW capability

[HRK]

There's not much ground based EW systems can do against SAMs.

Meray bhai every SAM system have radards as well ... now plz read my post again.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There's not much ground based EW systems can do against SAMs.

Ask these to the Russian SAM operators in Syria, Karabag', Libya, Ukraine etc. while their SAMs were bursting out like the popcorns.....

As for the Turkish EW, anything Russian and you're dead....

 

[Princeps Senatus]

Meray bhai every SAM system have radards as well ... now plz read my post again.

Excuse the bad drawing, but hopefully this conveys the point. Basically, in such geometry, any modern radar will have no issues acquiring the aircraft since it can simply filter out the Jamming because the Jamming and the Aircraft in question are at vastly different bearings wrt the radar.

Now, if the aircraft flew close to the ground that would be an entirely different story and in that case yes the Jamming would work and the aircraft will be screened. But SAMs are largely ineffective against terrain-hugging aircraft anyways.

 

[Signalian]

Ura lo mazaq.. gareeb ul ilmi ka
Did Pak copy the frequency and knew command code somehow, and said "ram laal.. fire!!!"

I’m not making fun.

INS cannot be jammed, you are right but you should have read more into it about inertial errors and why another guidance system like satellite guidance e.g. GPS, Glonass is used and how then INS/satellite guidance system becomes susceptible to jamming. Also, how can deception jamming come into play in this scenario. There is paper on traction partial jamming on INS/GPS, give it a read.

As for knowing frequencies, satcom bands used by gps like gnss, beiudou, glonass, Galileo are usually known. You can google to know some of their frequencies.

 

[HRK]

View attachment 841516

Excuse the bad drawing, but hopefully this conveys the point. Basically, in such geometry, any modern radar will have no issues acquiring the aircraft since it can simply filter out the Jamming because the Jamming and the Aircraft in question are at vastly different bearings wrt the radar.

Now, if the aircraft flew close to the ground that would be an entirely different story and in that case yes the Jamming would work and the aircraft will be screened. But SAMs are largely ineffective against terrain-hugging aircraft anyways.

So you are saying that It is necessary for the Jammer/EW asset at the same direction, Azimuth & Elevation of an aerial asset to be effective against the enemy Radar?

 

[Signalian]

View attachment 841516

Excuse the bad drawing, but hopefully this conveys the point. Basically, in such geometry, any modern radar will have no issues acquiring the aircraft since it can simply filter out the Jamming because the Jamming and the Aircraft in question are at vastly different bearings wrt the radar.

Now, if the aircraft flew close to the ground that would be an entirely different story and in that case yes the Jamming would work and the aircraft will be screened. But SAMs are largely ineffective against terrain-hugging aircraft anyways.

In your pic, your ground EW system will use barrage or noise jamming to overwhelm ground Radar which is trying to receive radar reflections from the aircraft. The ground radar will know its being jammed but will be unable to get exact bearing of aircraft or provide a lock-on through SAM because of jamming.

In the pic below, ground based EW system are jamming enemy ground based radars as well as airborne radars. They are using different frequency bands.

In the next pic, a satellite link jamming is occurring to jam enemy ground radar and satellite link.

Read into these following ground based EW systems like the ones PAF is getting which are used to jam enemy ground radars:

1. Russian ground EW system (krasukha-4)
2. Spanish Indra’s GBR-EAS ground based EW system
3. Turkish KORAL ground based EW system

 

[IblinI]

There are a lot of things going on in both countries' military cooperation.

 

[Luosifen]

Please Tell me that this out of nowhere revealed remind you of this scene? Replace Ron with (PDF) and replace Brick with (PA).
View attachment 841621

Since this is an EW system you should've used the one where Brick brings the gun from the future

 

[Princeps Senatus]

In your pic, your ground EW system will use barrage or noise jamming to overwhelm ground Radar which is trying to receive radar reflections from the aircraft. The ground radar will know its being jammed but will be unable to get exact bearing of aircraft or provide a lock-on through SAM because of jamming.

I drew a very old-school analog radar, but since we are talking about S-400, lets assume the radar in the diagram is a modern phased-array with good jam resistance and clutter rejection. Shouldn't it simply be able to filter out the jamming (as clutter)? Since the Aircraft and EW system are at vastly different azimuths.

 

[Signalian]

Thanx bro... actually my feild is mechanical, so I just commented having basic knowledge of EW warfare. So thought too good to be true.

I meant eenmy comm frequencies. Yes, all GPS signals are known and weak. Perhaps, Beidou can change it in war or there are dedicated military setallite.

Anyway, how can a ground based jammer can jam a radar? I mean mast is enough to cover 300 km? I know there is a formula but simple yes or no is enough?

I don't think the method will be to send signal to ionospehre, which then reflect back to earth (will be very weak and perhaps just can cause at best some static. )
Thanx in advance.

Range of own radar matters. If the range is 300 km, it should be able to locate enemy's radar at that range. SIGINT and EW is possible but range can be limited due to radiated power of own radar and the geometry between jammer (own radar) and target radar.

I drew a very old-school analog radar, but since we are talking about S-400, lets assume the radar in the diagram is a modern phased-array with good jam resistance and clutter rejection. Shouldn't it simply be able to filter out the jamming (as clutter)? Since the Aircraft and EW system are at vastly different azimuths.

Read basics, download EW 101.
As for S-400 and jamming, I have already posted that in various threads. Get your concepts of jamming first. Chapter 9 of EW 101 should help you,

 

[HRK]

Read basics, download EW 101.
As for S-400 and jamming, I have already posted that in various threads. Get your concepts of jamming first. Chapter 9 of EW 101 should help you,

May be a silly question but could you comment

What would be the effect of curvature of earth on ground based EW equipments, because in case of radars it is said curvature of Earth limits the range of radar for low flying objects?

 

[Signalian]

May be a silly question but could you comment

What would be the effect of curvature of earth on ground based EW equipments, because in case of radars it is said curvature of Earth limits the range of radar for low flying objects?

RF waves propagating within the earth's atmosphere do not travel in a straight line. The earth's atmosphere bends, or refracts, RF waves. One impact of the atmospheric refraction of RF waves is an increase in the line of sight (LOS) of the radar. This increase in radar LOS effectively extends the range of the radar.

The advantage of the HF band is that radio waves of these frequencies are refracted (bent) by the ionosphere so that the waves return to the Earth’s surface at long distances beyond the horizon, as shown in below figure. This permits target detection at distances from about 500 to 2,000 nautical miles (900 to 3,700 km).

The electromagnetic waves follow the rules of the optics in higher frequencies (>100 MHz). The earth's curvature may prevent the radar seeing a target within the maximum range given by the radar range equation. Therefore results a "dead zone” for every radar system in which one targets can't be detected.

However in the earth's atmosphere, electromagnetic waves are generally bent or refracted downward. This reduces the dead zone but causes fault in the distance and height measuring simultaneous. In practice this is achieved by using a value of 8.5·10power6 m for the effective earths radius instead of real 6.4·10power6 m.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

Read basics, download EW 101.
As for S-400 and jamming, I have already posted that in various threads. Get your concepts of jamming first. Chapter 9 of EW 101 should help you,

I am reading this currently, it does use David Adamy's books as reference along with many others.

 

[HRK]

RF waves propagating within the earth's atmosphere do not travel in a straight line. The earth's atmosphere bends, or refracts, RF waves. One impact of the atmospheric refraction of RF waves is an increase in the line of sight (LOS) of the radar. This increase in radar LOS effectively extends the range of the radar.

View attachment 841972

The advantage of the HF band is that radio waves of these frequencies are refracted (bent) by the ionosphere so that the waves return to the Earth’s surface at long distances beyond the horizon, as shown in below figure. This permits target detection at distances from about 500 to 2,000 nautical miles (900 to 3,700 km).

View attachment 841977

The electromagnetic waves follow the rules of the optics in higher frequencies (>100 MHz). The earth's curvature may prevent the radar seeing a target within the maximum range given by the radar range equation. Therefore results a "dead zone” for every radar system in which one targets can't be detected.

However in the earth's atmosphere, electromagnetic waves are generally bent or refracted downward. This reduces the dead zone but causes fault in the distance and height measuring simultaneous. In practice this is achieved by using a value of 8.5·10power6 m for the effective earths radius instead of real 6.4·10power6 m.

View attachment 841974

So this could be applicable to the ground based EW systems as well ??

 

[Signalian]

So this could be applicable to the ground based EW systems as well ??

yes