PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[CivilianSupremacy]

I try it a second time! The J-10C is NO option and the moment Turkey orders that type, no F-16 will be flying any more and Kaan is dead at least with the interim engines!

I think Turkey going for J-10Cs is unlikely too. But for some different reasons than you pointed out. Turkey has always used western platforms and mostly F-16s in last 3-4 decades or so. Its far better for them if they get F-16 block 70s for which they were lobbying for already (not sure if they still are lobbying for it). Going for eastern tech (J-10C) a new platform for them, trainings, logistics, ammunition, everything changes that will be a last resort.

So, Its more of a technical reasons and not entirely just the political reasons. I disagree with your point that no Turkish F-16 will be flying. Any country which has maximum technical / manufacturing capabilities around F-16 platform outside US is Turkey. If Iran managed to keep F-14s flying 50 years without any support then Turkey can definitely keep their F-16s flying for rest of their airframe lives. However, Kaan engine embargo definitely could definitely delay Kaan's production. However, I doubt US / NATO can afford to alienate Turkey any further. Its unlikely that they'd kill the support for their existing fleet. For now, Turkey is likely using J-10C as a bargaining chip and if it advances talks on it then perhaps US will approve the sales.

However, nothing is permanent in politics. If relations of US and Turkey reaches to the point where Turkey realizes that it can no longer trust US in military equipment sales then anything can happen.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think Turkey going for J-10Cs is unlikely too. But for some different reasons than you pointed out. Turkey has always used western platforms and mostly F-16s in last 3-4 decades or so. Its far better for them if they get F-16 block 70s for which they were lobbying for already (not sure if they still are lobbying for it). Going for eastern tech (J-10C) a new platform for them, trainings, logistics, ammunition, everything changes that will be a last resort.

So, Its more of a technical reasons and not entirely just the political reasons. I disagree with your point that no Turkish F-16 will be flying. Any country which has maximum technical / manufacturing capabilities around F-16 platform outside US is Turkey. If Iran managed to keep F-14s flying 50 years without any support then Turkey can definitely keep their F-16s flying for rest of their airframe lives. However, Kaan engine embargo definitely could definitely delay Kaan's production. However, I doubt US / NATO can afford to alienate Turkey any further. Its unlikely that they'd kill the support for their existing fleet. For now, Turkey is likely using J-10C as a bargaining chip and if it advances talks on it then perhaps US will approve the sales.

However, nothing is permanent in politics. If relations of US and Turkey reaches to the point where Turkey realizes that it can no longer trust US in military equipment sales then anything can happen.

Hi,

A lot of things might become clearer after the current excercise between paf, saudia and Turkiye air forces.

Both the countries will get a taste of the J10C's---. It won't come as a surprise that Turkiye might chose the J10C---.

Turkiye has made a prior choice that did not sit well with the USA---and they would care less if this choice does not sit well either---. Turkiye is already on a path of independence---and another leap in that direction should not be a surprise to anyone.

 

[ghazi52]

,..,.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

A lot of things might become clearer after the current excercise between paf, saudia and Turkiye air forces.

Both the countries will get a taste of the J10C's---. It won't come as a surprise that Turkiye might chose the J10C---.

Turkiye has made a prior choice that did not sit well with the USA---and they would care less if this choice does not sit well either---. Turkiye is already on a path of independence---and another leap in that direction should not be a surprise to anyone.

Chinese and Turkish aerospace industries coming together on a Turkish J-10 would be music to the PAF’s ears, making integration of Turkish systems on the JF-17 and J-10 presumably easier, and ultimately paving the way for PAF’s next Gen fighter being able to possibly employ weapons from either country on the same platform. Also, a WS-15E Export cleared variant of the J-10 could be the first step towards using a WS-15E engine on the KAAN fighter, as IMHO I doubt Turkey will be able to achieve the same performance soon, as their western partners, Rolls Royce will probably shaft them soon enough.

Btw, considering the budget crunch in Pakistan, and China’s move to modernize its Air Force, what do you think of the prospects of the PAF procuring used PLAAF J-10s to replace the mirages? 100-150 J-10s (a mix of new and used) would ease the financial burden on the PAF. For the PLAAF, these planes could be replaced by the J-31 Air Force variant once it enters service. 150-200 each of the JF-17 and J-10 alongside the 75 odd F-16s would go along way to finally retiring the F-7s and Mirages. The older J-10s could be upgrade and overhauled to soldier on for 20 years, eventually to be retired to make way for the J-31 and KAAN Fighters.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Hi,

My re-collection of the event is different---.

Out of sheer incompetence---the Paf declared the rafale not upto the task for the Paf. France was desperate to sell the aircraft---.

There were no buyers for the Rafale---Mirage was losing engineers left and right---the french fighter industry was at the brink of losing its existence---. The french literally begged the Paf to buy the aircraft---.

You know what happens to pakistanis when you tell them that you need them---Ch----y wali aakkar aa jandi aaiy---. That is what happened to the Paf.

That procurement would have totally decimated the indian procurement and left them with no choices at that time for any tier 1 aircraft---.

The Paf gifted the indian air force for the second time in 30 years with the best conventional aircraft of that time---.

No ur right PAF did have an opportunity to induct rafale in numbers......but then again their experience in the recent past, back in the day was not good with the french n rafale was a very new product which was evolving n maturing back then n it took a good 10 years from that point for the french to make an intl. Sale. So lots of ifs n buts.

Wt I am pointing towards is the fact is a couple of years before the induction of j10c in PAF n after the Indians had finally signed the deal for rafale....PAF had a very close look at the rafale

 

[Reichmarshal]

When and where did the PAF take a very close look at the Rafale? Care to provide a source for that? I'd like to learn more about this.



Says who? where did you get the information that the J-10A was tailored to take on the Rafale? Are you saying that when the Chinese first planned to build a multi-role aircraft for China's specific needs and supposedly went to the apartheid entity to ask if they could copy the Lavi which was nothing but an F-16XL copy in the first place with minimally functioning canards and then said "yes, we will build our version of the Lavi which will be solely tailored to countering the French Rafale"? That's what you're saying?

I never even mention the j10a...PAF was never interested in the ac...even on the insistence of the Chinese n musharaf.....my discussion is about j10c.

Or were they simply trying to build their own and 1st indigenous fighter they were hoping to turn into an air superiority platform to defend the South China Seas and the mainland? That's why they built it and "tailored" to and not to counter the Rafale.

PAF was very specific about wt it wanted in its fleet of j10c...

Everyone and their sisters knows that. That's a moot point since this is only about platform to platform capabilities and not pilots.

Had it been a moot point that u would still be following the soviet doctrine related to flying n not hiring western pilots n other related staff to rewrite ur flying Manuels n evolving ur tactics according to the western doctrine of flying.

The rest of ur post is copy past job, which all looks good on paper but has zero revlance.

 

[Talon]

Actually, its the guy who has/has been doing work for the PAF - but PAF Admin under the current Air Chief is hard on people who've been promoting the PAF out of passion.

Certain 'individuals' paid this guy a visit & wiped all data from his Hard Drive.

I'm guessing the very people who performed this act have never heard of Google Drive.

All this strictness started because people like @air marshal couldn't contain themselves from getting too close to air base walls.

Honourable mention : Bankers from Karachi were bragging their visits on Facebook every week.

There are many other spotters which I can't/won't mention here to avoid them getting in any trouble.

This was bound to happen..cant blame the air force.

 

[Gomig-21]

I never even mention the j10a...PAF was never interested in the ac...even on the insistence of the Chinese n musharaf.....my discussion is about j10c.

Ok, my bad. I mentioned the A model because you said the J-10C was tailored to counter the Rafale and I took that as if you were suggesting the Chinese originally decided to build the J10 specifically to counter the Rafale, hence the J-10A being the first model.

But now I understand your point that the eventual J-10C was supposedly improved from the A & B to compete with the Rafale. Fair enough, but it would be nice to see a supporting source.

Had it been a moot point that u would still be following the soviet doctrine related to flying n not hiring western pilots n other related staff to rewrite ur flying Manuels n evolving ur tactics according to the western doctrine of flying.

The rest of ur post is copy past job, which all looks good on paper but has zero revlance.

The pilots' level of performance was a moot point because that's common knowledge and it wasn't applicable to the discussion at hand. The discussion was strictly about platform to platform. Hardware only.

And all the copy-paste stuff is factual, statistical & sourced information on the performance capabilities of both aircraft. So it was relevant, and I expected you would at least tackle a few of the points to prove why the J-10C (or F-16, not sure which way you were going with that) would eat the Rafale at low-level A2A dogfighting combat 9 out of 10 times.

If you could support your point, I would humbly admit I was wrong, just like I did in the point above. There's no shame in that. But I don't think you're being objective and underestimating the opposing hardware.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[MastanKhan]

When and where did the PAF take a very close look at the Rafale? Care to provide a source for that? I'd like to learn more about this.

Hi,

After 9/11---paf checked out the Gripen. They went for the Mirage 2K but the french offered them the Rafale---. Paf checked it out---but refused it.

There was a massive deal with france in the making that the US sabotaged---. It included the air bus aircraft---french subs---the Mirage 2/K .

Pakistan fell into the american trap one more time---for direct flight to the USA if they went for the Boeing 777---launch customer---. Boeing happened----direct flights did not---.

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

J-10CE termed as the game changer for Pakistan Air Force has established a very effective deterrence in the region.

Combination of superior flight envelope and advanced munitions helps it to achieve first shot against all adversaries in the region.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Beautiful shot maybe posted earlier!

 

[Cool_Soldier]

How many J10s have received till to date?

I hope deliveries of 36 have been completed .