PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[MastanKhan]

I don’t get it though, they modified an entire platform just for aerobatics? What gives? There has to be more to it than that. How could adding a spine help with aerobatics. If it’s a maneuverability thing, would we not see it on actual fighters first?

Hi,

You are correct---why to do so much for aerobatics---.

Regardless we will only know when they tell us---.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I don’t get it though, they modified an entire platform just for aerobatics? What gives? There has to be more to it than that. How could adding a spine help with aerobatics. If it’s a maneuverability thing, would we not see it on actual fighters first?

Supposedly UAE ordered L-15 because they were impressed by the performance during an air show. I think that AVIC might’ve taken the cue and could be pushing for sales of a new type via Airshow birds.

Do keep in mind that August 1st planes are not showboat planes only. They can be converted to combat planes at a moments notice and have participated in air patrols before.

 

[SQ8]

Supposedly UAE ordered L-15 because they were impressed by the performance during an air show. I think that AVIC might’ve taken the cue and could be pushing for sales of a new type via Airshow birds.

Do keep in mind that August 1st planes are not showboat planes only. They can be converted to combat planes at a moments notice and have participated in air patrols before.

It still is a rather odd choice of modification to be relegated to a display team bird. Unless the modification did not yield the results warranted for operational types and was simply decided to not waste the jet.

Yet, the fact that the jet went through this whole thing only to end up straight with the Aug 1st team is a very confusing choice indeed.

It is possible that he bird is intentionally sent to the Aug-1 because CAC has been authorized to sell the J-10c beyond Chinese shores after successful sales to Pakistan and so it may become the J-10 demo bird at international airshows for what may be a J-10CE version.

 

[Abid123]

An arms race is not a good thing, we simply don't have the economy to support such a thing

You cannot outspend India in an arms race therefore it is not a good idea. But keeping up with Indian new acquisitions by making better value purchases is the least worst path. That's what J-10CE purchase is about. In response to IAF buying Rafale. But why buy over 100 J-10CE?

If that is the case, may as well convert JF-17 manufacturing resources into making J-10. Do a deal with China and domesticate the J-10 line for as much in house production as possible. More than 100 units of J-10 is basically close to justifying adding those extra costs and getting the platform in house. This also allows China's new J-10 production line to make J-10 for PLAAF which is needed as a number filler fighter for PLAAF.

The production has moved from Chengdu to Guizhou. Chengdu's production is focused on J-20. But bothering to start a production line with Guizhou Aircraft Corporation means PLAAF is interested in continuing to buy J-10C which means PLAAF has a need for more. 100 units will be too many for China to export to Pakistan without justifying another production line either in China or in Pakistan. The problem is Pakistan would have to shoulder the cost and the only way to make that cost worthwhile is by buying in large numbers. That would take resources away from 5th generation acquisition for Pakistan.

India also has not purchased anywhere near 100 Rafale. Even if PAF can buy three J-10CE for the price of every Rafale IAF buys (China selling to Pakistan at pretty much same price the PLAAF buys), it is a provocative act which would require India to respond in pure numbers.

I think PAF orders for J-10 ought to remain under 100 just to keep up with IAF Rafale orders. Maybe 1.5 margin rather than 1:1. Otherwise save up for airforce variant of J-35. Better yet, develop the country. The security with India should be secured via diplomacy, if not possible, deterrence secured through military means which Pakistan has.

Pakistan's firepower will never match India, even with nukes, that's the reality and the difference between our economy and population, but Pakistan's firepower is high enough to increase the enemies lose versus its benefit.

This is the strategy the Pakistani leadership should choose for deterence while not pressuring the economy.

 

[MastanKhan]

The PAF is making sure that push comes to shove if a block-3 does face off without support against a Meteor equipped Rafale it will not be a simple kill for the Rafale but rather block-3s can push the Rafale meteor combo and put them on the defensive. So the J-10C provides the edge over the Rafale/meteor combo but the block-3 can also tackle it.

As information/intelligence is gathered on the Indian Rafale’s capabilities from friends and human intelligence from India - whatever additional changes that do not overbloat the design or require major changes are put in.

It is a game of chicken too to see who blinks and finalizes their new toy - because changes post delivery are a little more difficult than before.

For right now, the PAF still sits pretty when it comes to the ability to replicate results of 2019 with ease and if the unlikely major escalation takes place can extract a heavy toll from the eastern threat.

Hi,

Thanks for the post. It was so obvious---but many could not understand that.

Pakistan's firepower will never match India, even with nukes, that's the reality and the difference between our economy and population, but Pakistan's firepower is high enough to increase the enemies lose versus its benefit.

This is the strategy the Pakistani leadership should choose for deterence while not pressuring the economy.

Hi,

Of course it will match---. India has to take care of 2 fronts.

 

[Mrc]

Have you guys noted the piss poor performance of Russian sukhois in ukerine?
The same aircraft which makes majority of indian fleet ...

Ukerinians are still flying... They had 60 aircraft at beginning of war. Air defences are still working so are radars . Air fields are operational.

Indians have 60 mirages and 36 Rafael (some yet to be delivered) rest are sukhois and mig 21

Although you should never underestimate the enemy and prepare like there is no tomorrow....but this doesn't look good for iaf

 

[SQ8]

Integrated right? Not pod based

Both - an integrated suite which can be augmented by a pod based one

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Good morning

 

[Abid123]

Hi,

Of course it will match---. India has to take care of 2 fronts.

I am talking about India vs Pakistan. Not Pakistan and China vs India.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am talking about India vs Pakistan. Not Pakistan and China vs India.

Hi,

Did you really think I was commenting about something else---?

 

[MastanKhan]

Have you guys noted the piss poor performance of Russian sukhois in ukerine?
The same aircraft which makes majority of indian fleet ...

Ukerinians are still flying... They had 60 aircraft at beginning of war. Air defences are still working so are radars . Air fields are operational.

Indians have 60 mirages and 36 Rafael (some yet to be delivered) rest are sukhois and mig 21

Although you should never underestimate the enemy and prepare like there is no tomorrow....but this doesn't look good for iaf

Hi,

Well attacking forces have higher casualties than defending if they are on a similar tier of equipment.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Good morning
View attachment 891650

Thanks for the first original new picture of PAF J10CE's since the induction/flyby ceremonies !!!!

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

Well attacking forces have higher casualties than defending if they are on a similar tier of equipment.

Against a nearly non existent Ukrainian airforcr? Which is still flying?

 

[MastanKhan]

Against a nearly non existent Ukrainian airforcr? Which is still flying?

Hi,

Yeah---why not---. Ukraine has superior equipment---.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Have you guys noted the piss poor performance of Russian sukhois in ukerine?
The same aircraft which makes majority of indian fleet ...

Ukerinians are still flying... They had 60 aircraft at beginning of war. Air defences are still working so are radars . Air fields are operational.

Indians have 60 mirages and 36 Rafael (some yet to be delivered) rest are sukhois and mig 21

Although you should never underestimate the enemy and prepare like there is no tomorrow....but this doesn't look good for iaf

I wouldn't go as far as to term sukhoi piss poor.

It is a capable aircraft , it has it's cons and pros.

The reason Ukraine is still fighting, is due to poor strategy on part of Russians,
and clever strategy on part of Ukraine, who are drawing the Russians into an Urban conflict.

If there is one thing you can clearly learn as far as Sukhoi is concerned, is that a high radar foot print aircraft will get defeated very quickly even with a weaker adversary.

Regards.