PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Tank131]

I agree, usually @SQ8 IS reliable and has good takes, but here, it just doesn't seem logical. How could integration of an aesa radar which hadnt itself completed testing on the JF-17 at the time, nor had any weapons integrated at the time, be put into service on a stop gap measure in 2019,but here we are 3.5 years later and the same radar yet to enter official service with the block it was actually designed for?

 

[HRK]

I agree, usually @SQ8 IS reliable and has good takes, but here, it just doesn't seem logical. How could integration of an aesa radar which hadnt itself completed testing on the JF-17 at the time, nor had any weapons integrated at the time, be put into service on a stop gap measure in 2019,but here we are 3.5 years later and the same radar yet to enter official service with the block it was actually designed for?

3 three assumptions:

- The Radar was air cooled version
(NOTE: we already know through media reports that there were 3 AESA radars in competition for JF-17 contract KLJ-7A & LKF-601 have air cooled versions as well)

- The Radar was built specifically for JF-17 Blk-I & II
(NOTE: we already know PAF would upgrade its legacy fleet of JF-17 with AESA RADAR as PAF has a policy not to maintain fleet within the fleet of JF-17 as per previous Air Chief)

- Therefore it was easy to install on the existing fleet

Just recall the first marketing video of LKF-601 earlier version, it was integrated and tested on FC-1/JF-17, but was not adopted as later reports confirmed so the question is

IF aircooled LKF-601 was integrated & tested with JF-17 than why could no other aircooled version of other AESA RADAR in competition could be tested on JF-17 ... ???

Lastly SQ8 is not the first person who is talk about it, these news/leaks or rumors whatever you would like to termed were at least 3 years old so he in fact kept the silence for such a long time give more weightage to this rumors/leaks.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1586293491230965761

 

[Abid123]

Motorway Operations aren't a "lost cause" exercise. And I'm wondering why you believe so. The technological leaps the military industry has made in the past 40 years is astronomical. Even in the past 20 years' provisions of economies of scale have provided numerous force multipliers down to a single soldier.

Force dispersion is a measure used my many countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip The Swedes have taken this to an entirely total war level with their Bas 90 which provides close to 80+ strips that their Air Force can disperse to, rearm, and continue the fight.

The number of missiles an enemy could rain down has out-dated the traditional strategy of actual airforce bases as well as forward operating bases. As most of Pakistan's current ABs and FOBs (most of which are 1-2 runway) are WELL WITHIN range of Indian missiles AND rocket artillery from the border are you really expecting the PAF and PA to have enough CIWS or missile defenses to stop a barrage?

There is no guarantee that the Indians (hypothetically) wont manage to launch a massive and comprehensive strike destroying/crippling many PAF airbases destroying in the first hours of conflict.

 

[Tank131]

3 three assumptions:

- The Radar was air cooled version
(NOTE: we already know through media reports that there were 3 AESA radars in competition for JF-17 contract KLJ-7A & LKF-601 have air cooled versions as well)

- The Radar was built specifically for JF-17 Blk-I & II
(NOTE: we already know PAF would upgrade its legacy fleet of JF-17 with AESA RADAR as PAF has a policy not to maintain fleet within the fleet of JF-17 as per previous Air Chief)

- Therefore it was easy to install on the existing fleet

Just recall the first marketing video of LKF-601 earlier version, it was integrated and tested on FC-1/JF-17, but was not adopted as later reports confirmed so the question is

IF aircooled LKF-601 was integrated & tested with JF-17 than why could no other aircooled version of other AESA RADAR in competition could be tested on JF-17 ... ???

Lastly SQ8 is not the first person who is talk about it, these news/leaks or rumors whatever you would like to termed were at least 3 years old so he in fact kept the silence for such a long time give more weightage to this rumors/leaks.

Not sure i buy it. The only reason i hold. Any stock in it is because @SQ8 is the person saying it. But the story still doesnt make a lot of sense. From what i recall, in 2019 they were still deciding between LKF-601E (which was air cooled) and 2 KLJ-7A versions (air and liquid cooled). If LKF-601E was ready for use why would they not have installed it more widely already, and why would they wait on KLJ-7A which by all intents and purposes, the 2 radars had similar performance. If the LKF-601E was ready, why then wasnt it more widely adopted and why has the blk 3 been 4 years of waiting?

 

[Beast]

There is no guarantee that the Indians (hypothetically) wont manage to launch a massive and comprehensive strike destroying/crippling many PAF airbases destroying in the first hours of conflict.

And you think too highly of Indian. They even have problem flying fighter jet and you think they can destroy PAF on ground in few hours only? I think Indian Air Force even has problem dealing with AF like Nigeria or Angola.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Then pray India orders 114 more Rafale in MRCA order. Then you would see close to 200 J-10 C in PAF.

Please first pray that economy is fixed.

 

[MastanKhan]

Not sure i buy it. The only reason i hold. Any stock in it is because @SQ8 is the person saying it. But the story still doesnt make a lot of sense. From what i recall, in 2019 they were still deciding between LKF-601E (which was air cooled) and 2 KLJ-7A versions (air and liquid cooled). If LKF-601E was ready for use why would they not have installed it more widely already, and why would they wait on KLJ-7A which by all intents and purposes, the 2 radars had similar performance. If the LKF-601E was ready, why then wasnt it more widely adopted and why has the blk 3 been 4 years of waiting?

Hi,

You trying really hard for someone to spill out some information---.

Won't happen till it happens.

 

[Tank131]

Hi,

You trying really hard for someone to spill out some information---.

Won't happen till it happens.

No, i dont think there are any real beans to spill. We like to think of Pakistani military of always having a trick to reach when they need it, but here i dont actually think there is "any there, there". I just dont buy that there was any "hybrid block 2". It doesnt add up when we think about the delays faced by blk 3 that they already had a working solution for upgrading block 2. If they did, why, 3 years later do we not have multiple sqd of block 2 with this upgrade (it would really put PAF in an advantageous position to have hundred AESA equipped fighters).

 

[HRK]

Not sure i buy i

A very logical thing I understand and appreciate it & because of this understanding I posted the probable assumptions in my previous post, just to put on record this thing first came in public domain by one of the official of PAF (I would not point it out who it was), and confirmed by another defence professional independently.

But again as both the sources were anonymous sources as per public record its better not accept anything on face value.

If LKF-601E was ready for use why would they not have installed it more widely already

Because it was found inferior against the KLJ-7A liquid cool version, though the integration & testing of air cooled versions of both LKF-601& KLJ-7A were reported by chinese and international media at later stage.

why would they wait on KLJ-7A which by all intents and purposes, the 2 radars had similar performance.

KLJ-7A no official figures of latest version of liquid cool KLJ-7A is available in public domain official performance figures which were available is related to the previous version.

Even the latest version of aircooled LKF-601 surpass the first version of KLJ-7A, so I believe it is logical to assume that the theory of same performance of LKF-601 & KLJ-7A is related to previous version, and the radar currently integrated with JF-17 is not the same version but the latest iteration of KLJ-7A

If the LKF-601E was ready, why then wasnt it more widely adopted and why has the blk 3 been 4 years of waiting?

As said earlier LKF-601 previous version found inferior to the liquid cool KLJ-7A

 

[SQ8]

Not sure i buy it. The only reason i hold. Any stock in it is because @SQ8 is the person saying it. But the story still doesnt make a lot of sense. From what i recall, in 2019 they were still deciding between LKF-601E (which was air cooled) and 2 KLJ-7A versions (air and liquid cooled). If LKF-601E was ready for use why would they not have installed it more widely already, and why would they wait on KLJ-7A which by all intents and purposes, the 2 radars had similar performance. If the LKF-601E was ready, why then wasnt it more widely adopted and why has the blk 3 been 4 years of waiting?

Because the LKF is an imperfect solution to a requirement. I use imperfect loosely but its achieves performance in some areas while compromising others which was not the solution being looked for.

The AESA isn’t the only reason why the Blk-3 is delayed- paucity of funds and some reduced for other projects (some of which flopped if others are to believed) - changes in tooling for additional composites and associated infrastructure, EW system upgrades (now akin to a AIDEWS-lite) along with additional features requested to be added/changed based on what India is doing.

The PAF is making sure that push comes to shove if a block-3 does face off without support against a Meteor equipped Rafale it will not be a simple kill for the Rafale but rather block-3s can push the Rafale meteor combo and put them on the defensive. So the J-10C provides the edge over the Rafale/meteor combo but the block-3 can also tackle it.

As information/intelligence is gathered on the Indian Rafale’s capabilities from friends and human intelligence from India - whatever additional changes that do not overbloat the design or require major changes are put in.

It is a game of chicken too to see who blinks and finalizes their new toy - because changes post delivery are a little more difficult than before.

For right now, the PAF still sits pretty when it comes to the ability to replicate results of 2019 with ease and if the unlikely major escalation takes place can extract a heavy toll from the eastern threat.

 

[arslank03]

A very logical thing I understand and appreciate it & because of this understanding I posted the probable assumptions in my previous post, just to put on record this thing first came in public domain by one of the official of PAF (I would not point it out who it was), and confirmed by another defence professional independently.

But again as both the sources were anonymous sources as per public record its better not accept anything on face value.

Because it was found inferior against the KLJ-7A liquid cool version, though the integration & testing of air cooled versions of both LKF-601& KLJ-7A were reported by chinese and international media at later stage.

KLJ-7A no official figures of latest version of liquid cool KLJ-7A is available in public domain official performance figures which were available is related to the previous version.

Even the latest version of aircooled LKF-601 surpass the first version of KLJ-7A, so I believe it is logical to assume that the theory of same performance of LKF-601 & KLJ-7A is related to previous version, and the radar currently integrated with JF-17 is not the same version but the latest iteration of KLJ-7A

As said earlier LKF-601 previous version found inferior to the liquid cool KLJ-7A

the PAF selected the Air cooled version of the KLJ-7A.

 

[Sinnerman108]

And you think too highly of Indian. They even have problem flying fighter jet and you think they can destroy PAF on ground in few hours only? I think Indian Air Force even has problem dealing with AF like Nigeria or Angola.

I believe that strike will be executed through stand of weapons, or cruise missiles.
both PAF and IAF have the same plan of disabling enemy airbases in the first 1 hour of conflict.

Regards.

 

[Beast]

I believe that strike will be executed through stand of weapons, or cruise missiles.
both PAF and IAF have the same plan of disabling enemy airbases in the first 1 hour of conflict.

Regards.

As I say don't give too much credit to India. Their military personnel will be very happy if their cruise missile didn't explode on launch. Hitting the target as plan is bonus for Indians.

 

[VkdIndian]

additional features requested to be added/changed based on what India is doing.

Really admire PAF for being so nimble and dynamic in its acquisitions.

IAF and the bureaucracy here makes any acquisition such a long drawn process. This kind of dynamic change while the airframes are almost ready (like BK IIIs) are unthinkable here.