PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Ali_Baba]

It seems like the J10Cs have a pretty complex electronic warfare suite integrated into the entire airframe and a reduced frontal RCS as mentioned towards the latter half of this video...

Yes - the EW system is called 光谱 ! ( joke! ).

 

[Corax]

J-10C will also be used for SOW employment.

 

[maverick1977]

MBS will most likely be the Guest of honor during March23rd Parade show casing J10Cs and JF17 Blk3.

 

[The Eagle]

Sorry, I m also voter of PTI..you don't know me but you passed a decree. you don't understand what I wrote. I think these forums are for chosen one, so next I will be a silent spectator, plz carry on

It will be better to remain silent instead of predicting the wrong & becoming propaganda rumor mill. Whether you are PTI or not; this is about Pakistan. You are a PTI voter or not; do not misunderstand this place. Being a PTI voter doesn't keep you above Pakistan. I am not PTI voter and I say that. So, time to stop spreading sponsored rumors.

 

[Iceman2]

Expect a surprise from PAF on account for Swift Retort Anniversary on 27th Feb.

Don't think so the news channels reported first week of march for induction ceremony...

Would be interesting to know what bajwa sb is upto in states as there was a planned visit on 20th I guess but no pictures are released till now

 

[FuturePAF]

PAF still has a lot of aircraft to replace, why would it ever cap at 180-190 thunders, when that's nowhere near enough to replace older fighters? Even if they got 100 more J-10s, it still wouldn't be enough.

If the PAF had to choose, after producing 190 Thunders and procuring 100 J-10s, what to procure afterwards, it would probably choose more J-10s (finances aside). If finances are an issue, then I agree, PAF would continue to keep building more JF-17 then procuring more J-10s.

Btw, how many squadrons does the PAF want to operate? If I remember correctly, for a long time it was 26 squadrons of 17 aircraft each or 442 aircraft. 75 of that is F-16s, which means we would need a total of 367 other Fighters. 25 J-10s and 30 Block 3 JF-17s plus the 138 current JF-17s means we need 174 more aircraft.

How do you see PAF filling that 174 aircraft requirement? If the PAF gets a new type it usually builds that type up to at least 90 aircraft if possible. Let’s say, based on past patterns, the PAF goes for 6 squadrons of J-10; 102 aircraft in total, the. What do you think it would procure afterwards? Another 99 JF-17 in that context wouldn’t seem illogical, but perhaps shortsighted consider the option to procure the J-31 to add a more qualitative platform.

 

[That Guy]

If the PAF had to choose, after producing 190 Thunders and procuring 100 J-10s, what to procure afterwards, it would probably choose more J-10s (finances aside). If finances are an issue, then I agree, PAF would continue to keep building more JF-17 then procuring more J-10s.

Btw, how many squadrons does the PAF want to operate? If I remember correctly, for a long time it was 26 squadrons of 17 aircraft each or 442 aircraft. 75 of that is F-16s, which means we would need a total of 367 other Fighters. 25 J-10s and 30 Block 3 JF-17s plus the 138 current JF-17s means we need 174 more aircraft.

How do you see PAF filling that 174 aircraft requirement? If the PAF gets a new type it usually builds that type up to at least 90 aircraft if possible. Let’s say, based on past patterns, the PAF goes for 6 squadrons of J-10; 102 aircraft in total, the. What do you think it would procure afterwards? Another 99 JF-17 in that context wouldn’t seem illogical, but perhaps shortsighted consider the option to procure the J-31 to add a more qualitative platform.

J-31 and pretty much any 5th gen is currently out of reach of Pakistan, mostly because they aren't ready for sale yet.

pakistan still has a huge amount of F-7s and mirages that need replacing, and Thunder is the easiest and cheapest way to do so. The purchase of J-10C is a good way to hasten the retirement of older fighters, but thunder remains the cheapest.

PAF has always set the number of thunder purchases at around 300.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Do you feel Pakistan should have gotten involved? Or we did right to stay back.

what matters is that we played very badly diplomatically.
there is a chance that we would've received coffins of our soldiers in hundreds and thousands and still would've failed to get any material or diplomatic support from Savvy Arabs,

by not joining we angered our Arab friends who are extremely vindictive and never forgive or forget and still picking up coffins of our soldiers and civilians.

 

[sneakerspark]

Don't think so the news channels reported first week of march for induction ceremony...

Would be interesting to know what bajwa sb is upto in states as there was a planned visit on 20th I guess but no pictures are released till now

You need aircrafts for Induction Ceremony.

 

[Flight of falcon]

what matters is that we played very badly diplomatically.
there is a chance that we would've received coffins of our soldiers in hundreds and thousands and still would've failed to get any material or diplomatic support from Savvy Arabs,

by not joining we angered our Arab friends who are extremely vindictive and never forgive or forget and still picking up coffins of our soldiers and civilians.

Reminds me of this :

UAE minister warns Pakistan of ‘heavy price for ambiguous stand’ on Yemen

Tehran seems to be more important to Islamabad and Ankara than the Gulf countries, said UAE’s foreign affairs minister.

www.dawn.com

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J10C , has delta wing , which tend to make a plane more agile and maneuverability, is higher. Also the Engines they have is a bit more powerful , so in hands of a experienced pilot , these birds will be great asset.

The J10CP Engine , is also able to do advance Engine Thrust , adjustments which allow pilots to perform unique in flight moves for close Dog Fights

The weapons package appear very similar to Thunders , but he J10C has more missile carriage, so it impacts individual missions slightly. If inducted in number the benefits will benefit Pakistan's Airforce over all capabilities.

Also J10C , can also fill roles which Mirages have with respect to anti , SAM delivery platform.

The Computer & Avionics package is very similar on both platforms , the block IIIs have enjoyed some impressive improvements so over all capabilities is boosted for PAF.

In term of similarities

F-16A/B ------------Successor --------------> JF17-II / JF-III
Mirage---------------Successor --------------> J10CP

**JF-17 Block III are suppose to be more advance then F16 C/D

Since we are upgrading our Jet from Mirage standard , last upgrade done in 90's to 2022 standard , for J10 , the upgrade is not only on mechanical level but Avionics and on board computer systems , and pilot's situational awareness

Originally many folks in 2009 claimed, Pakistan will fly almost 250 JF-17 Thunders Block JF17-II / JF-III by 2015

1. Still good 100 craft short of target
2. Good 4-5 Year gap from targets due to decision to make JF-17 2B model and also a bit extra time needed for JF-17 Block III

It is fair to Assume , 30-75 J10CP would be needed to balance the retirement of Mirage fleet

1. First batch is being inducted on March 23rd
2. Numbers could increase to match our current F16 Fleet Numbers

Possible future Configuration for PAF

• 75- F16 C/D
• 100 - J10-CP
• 250 - JF17 Block II & JF17-Block III
• ??? - Azm [Design & Research Phase]

Retired Or Sell to Friendly Airforce or reposition on Western Front

• Mirage
• F-7P

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495342161826500615

The insecurity of Indians shown in the comments. Most are either in shock or denial. That's before the jet has even landed in Pakistan.

That's one heck of a detterent.

I remember a time when Indians used to run to the seller to deny Pakistan the acquisition of weapons. They even used to brag about it. No such drama at play here. They must feel hopeless.

 

[Readerdefence]

Saudi crown prince likely to visit Pakistan in March | The Express Tribune

Pakistan, sources added, is keen that Prince Mohammad bin Salman attends the Pakistan Day parade as a guest of honour on March 23

tribune.com.pk

Hi my friend guest of honour though military head been to India shaking hands and make defence pact with Indian army under the picture behind him signing of surrendering
by TIGER Niazi don’t get me wrong
we don’t even have that much leverage on Saudi army general to deny press picture under that particular picture of Pakistan army
I’m shocked what were beloved and war on terror general doing in Saudi Arabia if he can’t ask Saudi general not to release those pictures
if I say anything on this forum lots & lots will be after my posts
but nobody willing to mention it
thanks & regards

 

[Corax]

Salaam


Took me a few days to get through the whole thread. Very entertaining though.

My question is what role would J10CP fit in the PAF war doctrine? If operation 'swift retort' were to happen again with J10s present, what role would have gone to the J10s?

P.s @MastanKhan and @V. Makarov is there a reason why you both have the same profile picture? Is it a picture of you two? Thank you.

In my view, the entire rationale for opting for the J-10C is to plug a gap between the F-16s and the JF-17s. In order to understand this, we need to realise the matrix that the PAF has used in its calculus.

While the F-16s (Block-52s and MLU versions) are the mainstay of the PAF's 'top-end' in terms of BVR and precision guided munitions, they lack the potential to employ SOW munitions, either from the US or the lack of being able to integrate locally produced versions (Raad, REK, etc). The most they can be used for is interdiction and ground support using the Sniper/Paveway/JDAM combo. Although this is fine in uncontested airspace and without the threat of strong IADS, it's not appropriate in high intensity conflicts, where SOWs are needed to destroy high valued targets amidst heavy A2A threats from safe distances (as demonstrated by Feb 2019).

Although the JF-17s have already been integrated with some SOWs (CM-400AKG) and most likely will be integrated with the updated Raad (if not already) as well as REK type guided weapons, the lightweight fighter airframe limits fuel (i.e. range) and payload capacity.

This is where the J-10C comes in - as a medium weight airframe, and devoid of any restrictions, the PAF can adapt it with locally produced and Chinese SOWs in strike missions. I'm not going to start another debate about whether the J-10C is a 'copy' of the Lavi, but what I would say is that the Lavi was actually designed with strike missions in mind. Have a look at the wing root structure of the Lavi and the J-10C and you'll find a similar design in terms of profile and chord thickness, designed to strengthen the wing for heavy loads and a higher fuel fraction. It is known that China used a lot of 'data' from the Lavi programme and incorporated it into the J-10C design. In addition, the greater ground clearance of the J-10C favours its strike load carrying capabilities. Moreover, future upgrades and weapons will be far easier to add than the Viper fleet, if any.

In my view, although the J-10C is a very capable A2A fighter (AESA, IRST, PL-15, datalink, etc), for the PAF its actual value comes in the form of a medium weight strike fighter capable of deploying SOWs, which the F-16 can not fulfil, and which the JF-17 may be limited in scope and performance. Therefore, the role of the Mirages in the strike role is likely to be phased out along with induction of the J-10C, and the Viper fleet is unlikely to see any further additions, either in airframes or avionics/weapon upgrades.

@Quwa

 

[araz]

from the Chinese perspective;

Pakistan's acquisition of Chinese J-10C fighter jets significant for both sides: analysts

Pakistan's acquisition of Chinese J-10C fighter jets significant for both sides: analysts - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

Chinese comparison

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495279197111029760

View attachment 817116

Purely aesthetically the Rafale wins hands down. It is an amazingly beautiful plane.