PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Polestar 2]

Different strategies and concepts. The PAF decided to go with network centric warfare early on operating an advanced and proper C4I system since the early 2000s. This entails the usage of light aircraft linked with one another backed by AWACs. Similar to the strategy Sweden/Finland follow but at a much larger scale. This is the reason the PAF has always emphasized link-17 capabilities in the JF17 along the lines of the link-16 in the F16/Gripen.

The PLAAF has to assert dominance in the pacific and needs a long range fighter. In a localized conflict where the PAF is able to assert AWAC/Local ground radar coverage the JF17 neglects any aircrafts longer radar range.

J-10 is not a long range fighter. What u mention about JF-17 is also what J-10 possess of network.

 

[War Historian]

23rd March should not be changed for anyone....regardless.

I hope the PAF cheif comes in jf17 block 3....at the head of the formation and not an f16.

Be proud of what you make and it will send a message of where jf17 is to the whole world especially our constipated southern neighbour

Sir in south we have only Arabian sea.

 

[Imran Khan]

JF-17 today evening

 

[KaiserX]

J-10 is not a long range fighter. What u mention about JF-17 is also what J-10 possess of network.

Exactly the J10 will be easily able to integrate into the PAF current strategy concept in a way the J11 would not. Some of the reasons PAF chose to invest fully in the JF17 rather than the J10 early one was

- Engine access was reliable via russian gaurantees
- Access to western components at that time which would more easily integrate into the JF17
- Cheaper/lighter fighters which could be produced at a mass scale
- Better servicability at that time compared to the J10A which had many issues which have been addressed
- Access to key technologies early on. Dont forget not long after the JF17 the PAF was early the test babur/RAAD/burraq/ other weapons shortly after. JF17 TOT would be key to certain technologies.
- Lastly I believe their may have been a misconception in the PAF that Israeli approval may be required. Possibility but would easily be enough to tip the scale.

 

[jamal18]

I am one of the nay sayers. We all said it did not make sense to us as to why PAF needed another 4.5generation platform in the presence of block 3 which has not (officially) been inducted. We could not work out the need for such a platform especially in our resource constained environment. None of us would be unhappy to be proven wrong and as long as PAF has chosen the J10 due to its capabilities we would be very happy for PAF and Pakistan. Disagreement was based on logic rather than any grudge against the platform .
However, since the picture of Haseeb Paracha in Chinese platform emerged 2-3 years ago, Sir Bilalkhan 777 said he saw both J10 and J11/16 in PAF. This to me was the earliest confirmation as far as Iam concerned although other posters have since pointed to arrival in first quarter of 22.
A

It's good to go over one's mistakes and understand the reason for them. It's an improvement process.

 

[KaiserX]

It's good to go over one's mistakes and understand the reason for them. It's an improvement process.

What mistakes? The J10A was evaluated way back in 2008 by the PAF. Many questions were bought up regarding improvements. The J10C has a larger payload, radar, and engine than the JF17B3. It will more easily integrate intot he PAF current strategy concept compared to the J11 which is a maintenance heavy fighter.

What logic would the PAF go for J16s after the J10C? more than likely the PAF will evaluate Chinese 5th generations platforms or work with China on a design concepts of our own. 36 has always been the initial number PAF orders for its new fighters. There is a requirements for 60-70 medium weight 4.5 generations fighters and 100+ 5th generation long term (next 10-15 years).

 

[Imran Khan]

I am one of the nay sayers. We all said it did not make sense to us as to why PAF needed another 4.5generation platform in the presence of block 3 which has not (officially) been inducted. We could not work out the need for such a platform especially in our resource constained environment. None of us would be unhappy to be proven wrong and as long as PAF has chosen the J10 due to its capabilities we would be very happy for PAF and Pakistan. Disagreement was based on logic rather than any grudge against the platform .
However, since the picture of Haseeb Paracha in Chinese platform emerged 2-3 years ago, Sir Bilalkhan 777 said he saw both J10 and J11/16 in PAF. This to me was the earliest confirmation as far as Iam concerned although other posters have since pointed to arrival in first quarter of 22.
A

with this deal PAF is delaying 5th gen fighter more 10 years . while rest of world getting to 5th gen we are lacking behind in 4th gen now . PAF was superior because of quality but now its gone .

 

[aziqbal]

with this deal PAF is delaying 5th gen fighter more 10 years . while rest of world getting to 5th gen we are lacking behind in 4th gen now . PAF was superior because of quality but now its gone .

5th generation will not be delayed, J10C is nothing to do with Project Azm

Azm will continue at a decent pace with the funding that is available

J10C + JF17 Block III + F16 C/D Block 52+ will ensure we have safe skies well into 2030

an industrial powerhouse like Turkey is building 5th generation and it will also be 2030 by the time it arrives

only few nations have decisions and concepts on 6th generation and aircraft like Tempest wont come online till very late 2030

so PAF is never going to be a "generation" behind so to speak

10 years ago we had F7 when IAF had Su30 MKI now that is what you call a gap, now no more gap

in my opinion JF17 Block III could handle the Rafale R4 but J10C ensures air superiority, its the final seal on the tin

 

[Nomad40]

Boo-Yah!!!

If I had his address, i'd send him a box of Cuban Cigars.

Send it my way.

 

[KaiserX]

with this deal PAF is delaying 5th gen fighter more 10 years . while rest of world getting to 5th gen we are lacking behind in 4th gen now . PAF was superior because of quality but now its gone .

Tell that the US which is cutting F35 numbers and ordering hundreds of new F15EXs. 4.5 generations fighter jets will continue to carry value/utility for few decades to come. 5th generation fighters are extremely maintenance heavy and costly to fly with very low serviciability rates. I dont see the PAF ever going for more than 120 AZM jets at most, the vast majority of our airforce upto 2040 will easily be 4.5 generation jets same goes for the USAF/PLAAF/RUAF/ IAF/ etc...

I can almost gaurantee you that the PAF will continue to produce/procure 4.5 generation fighters even when the initial batch of 5th generation fighters are inducted.

 

[araz]

A few pointers to consider:
1. Nothing is confirmed until we see the J-10 in Pakistani colors. We have had rumors regarding the J-10 that go back to the day we used to call it "FC-20" (almost 10 years ago) and it was rumored to be the more capable J-10B.

2. If let's say, the deal is done, will the J-10's come with the Russian engine or the sino engine ? If it does end up coming with the AL-31, what are the political implications for Indo-Russia friendship ?

3. Historically, PAF just doesn't accept Chinese goodies as is. The solutions are tailor made, be it the F-7p/PG or the JFT. What type of modifications will the J-10 incorporate to finally be inducted in the PAF?

4. Finally what type of numbers are we looking at? 2 squadrons i.e. 36-40 or something more?

5. Lastly, lets appreciate what has happened in the last 20 years. This was an airforce that was numerically disadvantaged, had no BVR capability, had in its fleet aircrafts that go back to the 60's, and in these 20 years it has steadily grown to be a serious serious threat for the enemies.

6. PS Any word on Chinese HMD/HMS's + PL-10 combo as to how capable it is compared to lets say JHMCS+Aim-9X?

Agree with No1.
2. Chinese engines were the reason there has been a delay. If my memory serves me well PAF as well as PLAAF had issues with AL31FN. However in spite of possible Chinese efforts AL41 has not been released to the Chinese except for the SU35. The timing of the deal supports the induction and PAF satisfaction with the Chinese engines.
3. Agreed however the modifications have seen both Chinese and possibly PAF input. In the case of the PGs the modifications were firstly made by the Chinese and the plane tested by PAF before it placed the order( there is no indication of any PAF input). On the other hand, the Chinese did not have a demonstrable DSI till PAF wanted it on the JFT. They subsequently went on to put it on the J10. So it has per my limited understanding been a mixed bag.
4.Sh Rasheed pointed to 25, however the numbers being hinted are 36. I suspect this is the first order and if PAF is satisfied there will be a follow on order. I suspect we could end up with 90 fighters.
The real question is whether we get any dual seaters and if so how many!
5 and 6 fully agreed and no comment.
A

 

[Imran Khan]

What mistakes? The J10A was evaluated way back in 2008 by the PAF. Many questions were bought up regarding improvements. The J10C has a larger payload, radar, and engine than the JF17B3. It will more easily integrate intot he PAF current strategy concept compared to the J11 which is a maintenance heavy fighter.

What logic would the PAF go for J16s after the J10C? more than likely the PAF will evaluate Chinese 5th generations platforms or work with China on a design concepts of our own. 36 has always been the initial number PAF orders for its new fighters. There is a requirements for 60-70 medium weight 4.5 generations fighters and 100+ 5th generation long term (next 10-15 years).

while world is moving to 5th gen

users of th gen fighters increasing day by day
usa
russia
china
israel
UK
australia
denmark
japan
denmark
italy
netherland
norway
S-korea


sooner others like
UAE
SWITZERLAND
singapore
poland
finland
aljerea
belgium
INDIA



we will remain back now 15 more years

 

[Pappa Alpha]

It kind of looks like an f16

Lavi influence

 

[Imran Khan]

Tell that the US which is cutting F35 numbers and ordering hundreds of new F15EXs. 4.5 generations fighter jets will continue to carry value/utility for few decades to come. 5th generation fighters are extremely maintenance heavy and costly to fly with very low serviciability rates. I dont see the PAF ever going for more than 120 AZM jets at most, the vast majority of our airforce upto 2040 will easily be 4.5 generation jets same goes for the USAF/PLAAF/RUAF/ IAF/ etc...

I can almost gaurantee you that the PAF will continue to produce/procure 4.5 generation fighters even when the initial batch of 5th generation fighters are inducted.

730 f-35 produced so far and USA will sure have 2000 f-35 with in few years as planned .

 

[Trailer23]

News, seems to have reached East of Pakistan - and i'm not talking about our friends in China.

Pakistan confirms raising squadron of Chinese J-10C in response to India's Rafale jets​

The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale.

Ankit Kumar
December 29, 2021

Putting the speculations to rest, the government of Pakistan has confirmed the acquisition of at least 25 Chinese J-10C fighter jets for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Pakistan's interior minister Sheikh Rashid told reporters in Rawalpindi on Wednesday that a squadron of 25 China-made jets would participate in a fly-past on 23 March. The minister touted the Chinese jets as "an answer to India's Rafale jets".

However, the minister misarticulated the name of the jets repeatedly during his interaction, referring to the jets as "Chinese JS-10". While rumours of Pakistan acquiring Chinese jets have been doing rounds for a long time, a big question mark remains over the claims of the Chinese jets competence against the advanced French Rafale.

Although China has been using the J-10C multirole fighter aircraft to replace its much older J-7E fighters at the People's Liberation Army Air Force's (PLAAF's) brigades, it relied on its much-advanced J-20 stealth jets when it came to monitoring of the crucial Taiwan Strait and East China Sea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1462021415276670987

The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale. Commentary in Chinese state media often looks to place the mid-sized fighter jet closer to the Rafale but Rafale's integrated architecture, superior sensors and overall combat capabilities set it apart.

With a distinct advantage in thrust and superior short-range missile, Rafale scores over the J-10C with better kill probability during Within Visual Range (WVR) combat. The combination of RBE2 AESA radar with the Meteor missile in Rafale provides a distinct advantage in the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat as well. Rafale's electronic warfare suite is also believed to be the most capable in its class.

The J-10C jets have been sighted during the China-Pakistan joint air exercises recently. Weeks before the formal announcements, the J-10C model was spotted in the pictures of the Pakistan Air Force Chief's office.

The Imran Khan Government's intentions to acquire the Chinese jets have already been questioned by the opposition. "I don't think the J-10C is as good as the Rafale also. We should have invested this money in building Project Azm and enhancing JF-17 capabilities," Dr Afnan Ullah Khan had posted on Twitter, earlier this month.