PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Ali_Baba]

Now that the PAF operates a "common fighter" between itself and the PLAAF, it means that as new weapons like the PL-21 become available to the PLAAF - then there is a 'chance' that PAF can eventually get them released to it.

Both PAF and PLAAF can work together to plan the MLU for the J10 platform and evolve their doctrines around it.

Additionally, war time attrition/emergency replacements will be easier aswell if required.

 

[SQ8]

What impact it would have if we add long range SAMs to the both sides as well. India got longer stick in that field which would severely hinder our AEW&C and other airborne support assets.

Adding a S-400 at Adampur(probably the best place to put one as it gives both reach and depth).

PAF Is not carrying jammers or is aware of an attack - surprise hit.

The S-400 has the ability to engage both a F-16 flight at 36000ft and a Saab-2000 at the same altitude.
It is able to bring down the Saab-2000 successfully with 1 missile.
it launches 8 at the F-16s north and brings down 1.

A F-16 flight at 12000ft can be engaged at a slightly reduced distance and 1 out of 4 missiles launched will hit and kill.


Change of scenario - the PAF is aware of the threat and stays around 5000ft or below and the AEW is kept back.

PAF aircraft can operate safely all the way upto the border.

PAF flight attempts to kill the S-400 arent successful on their own - (4 ship) and for the most part only JF-17s with MAR-1s are able to hit the S-400 flying below 1000ft.

However, a PAF flight of JF-17s with MAR-1s supported by a Falcon 20 both survive and are able to destroy the S-400.

That isnt cause for celebration as it also means that this flight was at a disadvantage against IAF interceptors and other systems.

 

[GOAT]

Adding a S-400 at Adampur(probably the best place to put one as it gives both reach and depth).

PAF Is not carrying jammers or is aware of an attack - surprise hit.

The S-400 has the ability to engage both a F-16 flight at 36000ft and a Saab-2000 at the same altitude.
It is able to bring down the Saab-2000 successfully with 1 missile.
it launches 8 at the F-16s north and brings down 1.

View attachment 805490
A F-16 flight at 12000ft can be engaged at a slightly reduced distance and 1 out of 4 missiles launched will hit and kill.


Change of scenario - the PAF is aware of the threat and stays around 5000ft or below and the AEW is kept back.

PAF aircraft can operate safely all the way upto the border.

PAF flight attempts to kill the S-400 arent successful on their own - (4 ship) and for the most part only JF-17s with MAR-1s are able to hit the S-400 flying below 1000ft.

However, a PAF flight of JF-17s with MAR-1s supported by a Falcon 20 both survive and are able to destroy the S-400.

That isnt cause for celebration as it also means that this flight was at a disadvantage against IAF interceptors and other systems.

Are you able to see what happens with Pakistani SAMs added to the model?

 

[IceCold]

Adding a S-400 at Adampur(probably the best place to put one as it gives both reach and depth).

PAF Is not carrying jammers or is aware of an attack - surprise hit.

The S-400 has the ability to engage both a F-16 flight at 36000ft and a Saab-2000 at the same altitude.
It is able to bring down the Saab-2000 successfully with 1 missile.
it launches 8 at the F-16s north and brings down 1.

View attachment 805490
A F-16 flight at 12000ft can be engaged at a slightly reduced distance and 1 out of 4 missiles launched will hit and kill.


Change of scenario - the PAF is aware of the threat and stays around 5000ft or below and the AEW is kept back.

PAF aircraft can operate safely all the way upto the border.

PAF flight attempts to kill the S-400 arent successful on their own - (4 ship) and for the most part only JF-17s with MAR-1s are able to hit the S-400 flying below 1000ft.

However, a PAF flight of JF-17s with MAR-1s supported by a Falcon 20 both survive and are able to destroy the S-400.

That isnt cause for celebration as it also means that this flight was at a disadvantage against IAF interceptors and other systems.

Hi,

I understand from the above scenario was pitching air assets against Indian air assets as well as destroying S-400 using MAR-1s which is as pointed out not a scenario we will like to be in considering the disadvantage against IAF interceptors. So this begs the question of whether we can use cruise missiles such as Babur to take out systems like S-400 without compromising PAF assets?
The reason behind is as soon as news broke out of the first S-400 batteries being installed in India, Babur was tested with enhanced range. Perhaps this was a coincidence but the military does not believe in coincidences.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Adding a S-400 at Adampur(probably the best place to put one as it gives both reach and depth).

PAF Is not carrying jammers or is aware of an attack - surprise hit.

The S-400 has the ability to engage both a F-16 flight at 36000ft and a Saab-2000 at the same altitude.
It is able to bring down the Saab-2000 successfully with 1 missile.
it launches 8 at the F-16s north and brings down 1.

View attachment 805490
A F-16 flight at 12000ft can be engaged at a slightly reduced distance and 1 out of 4 missiles launched will hit and kill.


Change of scenario - the PAF is aware of the threat and stays around 5000ft or below and the AEW is kept back.

PAF aircraft can operate safely all the way upto the border.

PAF flight attempts to kill the S-400 arent successful on their own - (4 ship) and for the most part only JF-17s with MAR-1s are able to hit the S-400 flying below 1000ft.

However, a PAF flight of JF-17s with MAR-1s supported by a Falcon 20 both survive and are able to destroy the S-400.

That isnt cause for celebration as it also means that this flight was at a disadvantage against IAF interceptors and other systems.

Bhai i have one question.
If IAF use its air assets and S400 at the same time, will not this cause them loose their own air assets as we saw on Feb 27.

Can S400 and HQ 9 P differentiate between friend and foe in highly contested air space with both friendly and enemy assets.

 

[Raider 21]

Be patient, next time you will see me sitting smoking a cigar in a J-10 or JS-10.

View attachment 805443

The air force's assumed public relations. And he even managed to fit in the JF-17!!!

 

[PurpleButcher]

Hi,

I understand from the above scenario was pitching air assets against Indian air assets as well as destroying S-400 using MAR-1s which is as pointed out not a scenario we will like to be in considering the disadvantage against IAF interceptors. So this begs the question of whether we can use cruise missiles such as Babur to take out systems like S-400 without compromising PAF assets?
The reason behind is as soon as news broke out of the first S-400 batteries being installed in India, Babur was tested with enhanced range. Perhaps this was a coincidence but the military does not believe in coincidences.

The issue of using babur is that it can have a domino effect! Like in Feb 2019, both sides had missiles pointed towards each other, for each missile, we would fire 3 and so on so forth. In order to neutralize S400, we need a less riskier/suicidal approach!

Once upon a time Pakistan had strategic assets (Saab AWACS), they were neutralized by someone... cant remember the details but just a food for thought for our planners

 

[IceCold]

The issue of using babur is that it can have a domino effect! Like in Feb 2019, both sides had missiles pointed towards each other, for each missile, we would fire 3 and so on so forth. In order to neutralize S400, we need a less riskier/suicidal approach!

Once upon a time Pakistan had strategic assets (Saab AWACS), they were neutralized by someone... cant remember the details but just a food for thought for our planners

Please do keep in mind that Feb-2019 was a skirmish. The above scenario is where war has already broken out and all assets are deployed by both sides including cruise missiles.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... could it be that you are already "a bit" off topic??

The topic is PAF J10CP - will perform flypast on 23rd March and now you are discussing its operational use and SAM systems and so on?

Especially since there is an appropriate thread for this already:

J-10C for PAF - Hypothetical Scenario

no no no no no ... not again ... sheesh

defence.pk

@The Eagle

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

PM IK just said it on TV that they are planning a trip to China next week though subjected to corona. Agenda will be business but just wonder, if it may include something related J10Cs as well

 

[araz]

Stop your delusion. It takes no brainer why US is now one sided partnering with india.

India is a bigger economy and is unfriendly with China. Both these criteria fits US doctrine now. If u still want to continue your delusion for further F-16 deal from US for PAF. Go ahead I am not stopping you.

The only counter to your argument is will US want to see its F16s take a drubbing against the RAFALE? How bad would that be for the image of US arsenal? Pure logic dictates the US will allow us upgrades on atleast the 52s if not the whole fleet. Whether PAF plays the game right remains to be/seen. I think what PAF wants is to get the FMS/Afunding released and pay for the upgrades that way. The US will want us to pay for the upgrade.
A

 

[PanzerKiel]

In order to neutralize S400, we need a less riskier/suicidal approach!

There are some other means....already tried and validated.....which are available and which will be surely used for neutralization of S-400 like stuff.

 

[SIPRA]

There are some other means....already tried and validated.....which are available and which will be surely used for neutralization of S-400 like stuff.

...... nuff said ....

 

[Big_bud]

I have a question guys?

What is the active fleet of fighter jets in PAF?

On wikipedia it says that we have: (Unreliable source I know)

69 Mirage 5s (Introduced: 1968) - 54 Years old - 2nd - 3rd Gen Jet
56 Mirage 3s (Introduced: 1961) - 61 Years old - 2nd - 3rd Gen Jet
54 J7s (Introduced: 1959) - 63 Years old - 2nd - 3rd Gen Jet
134 JF17 (Introduced: 2007) - 15 Years old - 3.5 - 4+ Gen Jet
75 F16 (Introduced:1978) - 44 Years old - 4th gen Jet

This adds up to 388. Is there a particular number PAF wants to maintain?
Our fleet looks very old! 69+56+54 = 179 of these jets are ancient. I know there have been some upgrades. But I think 4/5 platforms can't even fire a sidewinder because they don't have helmet mounted displays.(JF B3 will have it I know) Which basically means in a dogfight they are screwed! Plus such old planes can't be great with BVRs either, at that time there were no BVRs, they have narrow nose cones, small radars, less and old sensors. So what we have is some 200 odd F16s and JFs that are somewhat modern. Minus block 1s and block 15s and you might be looking at a number less than 100. Haven't we lost track completely? Considering India's steady acquisitions. We don't have much to pitch against very decent Mirage 2000s, MiG29s, SU30s and now Rafales.

We won't have any parity with Indian fleet if it wasn't for our hand full Block 52s. They seem to be having 616 fighter jets, out of which 432 are capable and modern. What are your views on our aging fleet? And parity with India in case of a full blown war where we have to use all our assets? Shouldn't we rather go lean & mean? We should rather have 1 or 2 types of 200-250 4.5 Gen fighters? The older lot would have extremely poor availability, long down times.

 

[ARMalik]

PM IK just said it on TV that they are planning a trip to China next week though subjected to corona. Agenda will be business but just wonder, if it may include something related J10Cs as well

J-10 old story now. There are other items on the 'wish List' not only by Pakistan but also by CHINA. There is a serious decoupling taking place in China in preparation for critical connected Geo-events.