PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[SIPRA]

J-10CE ends with an E; whereas J-10C ends with C

Yes, that is the real difference.

 

[The Terminator]

Just see my reply above your post

Got it.


And what about this beast

 

[Deino]

Got it.


And what about this beast View attachment 821356

A plain stupid model just should to fool us. these pylons cannot fit AAMs.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A question @Deino
F-35 can carry 14 BVR missiles
F-15 can carry 14 BVR missiles
F/A-18 super Hornet can carry 10 BVRs
F/A-18 Hornet can carry 8 BVRs
How many J-10 can carry only 4 ?View attachment 821310

I don’t see the practicality of carrying full load during air superiority mission.

 

[Bilal.]

If Pakistan views its relationship with China/PLA as purely transactional, then this is hugely problematic for the future ties between the two countries.

How can you take the view of a forum member as the policy of Pakistan. The forum didn’t even know for sure if the aircraft is coming or not till the minister announced and then pictures followed. It has no say what do ever in state policy.

 

[MastanKhan]

I don’t see the practicality of carrying full load during air superiority mission.

Hi,

Thank you very much for your comments.

One of the primary needs of air superiority combat for the spearhead aircraft is gaining the maximum altitude in the shortest period of time to be in a position of strength to launch the first BVR volley.

And for that reason---they need to be optimally light---.

Now if there is a hidden factor involved---ie---the power plant is more powerful than what is being narrated---then that is a different story

The spearhead:

4 BVR's and 2 WVR's for the J10's and

2 BVR's and 2 WVR's for the JF17's

Now the secondary line of aircraft that have enough time to gain the needed altitude---they might carry a heavier load.

It may just be like---quick deployment ground troops equipped lightly that can be rushed in real first and then the heavier equipped troops that follow up later

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

In theory yes, but I must admit, I haven't see any J-10 carrying any AAm on the inner station.




It seems, the mosta realistic load is 6




Not sure how to come to 12. Only the other wing stations are wired for PL-10, the center wing stations for 4 AAMs on twin-launcher and again, the inner wing stations have never been seen carrying AAMs. And please forget the fuselage hardpoints, they cannot carry AAMs.

As such the number is 6, not less but also not more.

Kindly look at the pictogram shared . It shows 10 bvrs .
Regards

 

[SQ8]

Why Pakistanis cannot spell Rafale is beyond me…. Its R A F A L E.. not Rafael like the Israeli defense company or Raphael like the Italian artist or Raffall which is the name of a lottery firm.

The J-10CP is likely going to be closely guarded but based on the ridiculous theories of it being compromised for F-16Vs it seems we are gathering a tik tok level crowd of wanting to just gaslight things for fun rather than actually realizing what they are talking about.

No more F-16s! Its done! That boat is pretty much departing and your new camp is set and its not western equipment. Moreover, despite the self centered approach of Pakistanis thinking they are the most important, most capable and most intelligent nation in the world it is far from it. For starters you have India next door which is multiples more important regardless of how well it tries to look for its interests than Pakistan’s CPEC gloating ever will be to the west in trying to contain China.

You just basically gave the middle finger to every NATO nation on Russia and Ukraine regardless of your pleading of “neutrality” to which they are now pushing for a regime change to ensure you remain screwed. And if that goes through then yes the J-10CP may be pushed to be compromised from a government level in Pakistan and no PDF or Chinese netizen warrior would be able to do jack about it because it is easier to buy a Pakistani than to find a Fuzon bubble gum in any store.

Lastly, even if you don’t compromise anything which is very likely - the United States spends more on ELINT & SIGINT than all other nations combined so at the least its been monitoring Chinese aircraft on patrol in Taiwan and storing all those juicy radar emissions for analysis later.

 

[MastanKhan]

listening to this does not bring any difference. No one knows beforehand that PAF has such an advantage over IAF going to the real theatre. At least knowing the lack of an edge over rivals will ask for more endeavors to do better in training and acquisitions of the latest tech weapons.
to perform better is not similar to knowing what is better. the entire world knows what is the stealth fighter but only a few have them.
PAF got J-10C to restore the lost advantage once again. Is not it so?
having western and Chinese systems at the same time brings forth versatility to the PAF.

Hi,

The Paf exposed its capabilities that the IAF was un-aware of---.

The difference cannot be re-gained---.

 

[tphuang]

Yes, I've said exactly the same thing. The PLAAF don't use the J-10C in strike because they have Flanker variants and strategic bombers. I was referring to the actual design of the aircraft - high internal fuel fraction and relatively large delta wing for load carrying capability. As I've mentioned previously, given the PAF can't upgrade Vipers with SOWS, the J-10C provides a readily capable and easy medium weight platform in lieu of the Vipers to take on the strike role, and eventually replace the Mirages. The PAF shouldn't have any issues such as adding local SOWS (RAAD, REK, etc) as well as potentially the AselPod from Turkey, in addition to AShM and other Chinese SOWS.

Actually, j16s up to this point have not been used in strike role either. As we have seen in the Ukraine conflict, stand off weapons and pgms are very important. Not having them have been quite costly for the Russians. Now that j20 has taken over the role as the primary air superiority aircraft, the natural path for j10c is to add more ground attack and precision strike capabilities.

In theory yes, but I must admit, I haven't see any J-10 carrying any AAm on the inner station.

It seems, the mosta realistic load is 6

Not sure how to come to 12. Only the other wing stations are wired for PL-10, the center wing stations for 4 AAMs on twin-launcher and again, the inner wing stations have never been seen carrying AAMs. And please forget the fuselage hardpoints, they cannot carry AAMs.

As such the number is 6, not less but also not more.

Yes 6 at most. The inner pylons are for dumb bombs. Not really sure why there is a need for more aam pylons since shooting down 1 or 2 aircraft would be pretty good showing per sortie. Adding more missiles will simply reduce loiter time and increase rcs.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In my Opinion , the number of BVR missiles carrying capacity does impacts the , outcome for Air Superiority, specially if you are the force fighting away from your home base.

As users pointed out F-35/F15/F18 have ability to carry 10+ Missile that is certainly big factor but with Twin Engines bigger loads are carriable

For Pakistan the Single Engine , Platform is ideal as we are defending home turf so , even if we look at USA they operate large fleet of 700 F16 on their home soil missions

Obviously , we can't compare PAF units with US units , which have more $$ invested

The Dragon-10 (formally J-10) offers , certain improvements if you are increasing your BVR capacity from 2-4 missiles per Unit to 6 or 8 , which is still significant

150+ , JF17 Thunders , 2-4 BVRs per plane
150+, Dragon-10 , 4-6 BVR missiles per planes

Key is number of Dragon-10 inducted

Pakistan's general comparison is with regional airfares in Asia, where our setup is quite reasonable



Still would be ample improvement

 

[MastanKhan]

bless you man.
I was just going to write that last bit.
how would PAF verify J10 capability and its integration in its doctrine without putting it against airforce other than China?

Hi,

I think what is more important is how would china learn how capable its aircraft are.

Feb 27th had as much eye popping reactions in beijing as they did in washington, tel aviv and moscow and amongst other locations---.

That was the first true air combat picture that emerged after 2 equally capable force fought in the air.

As much as the americans were salivating to find out first hand how ithappened so were the chinese drooling to learn and the first hand picture of the combat---.

 

[araz]

So in full load out it can carry 6 MRAAM (PL-12/PL-15) missiles, and 2 PL-10s under the wing. And an under belly centerline fuel tank. EW and targeting pods at chin mounted hard points and a couple of ground strike guided bombs in the back! Am I right?? Or would it exceed it's maximum take off weight!

It may not but its maneouverability will be affected badly. The ideal loadout for A2A is/4+2. If you have a twin engine 6+2. No one is going to carry more in the Indo Pak arena. The F15 s carrying a full loadout was a testament to its strength plus how it was used for battles.
A

 

[jaybird]

Kindly look at the pictogram shared . It shows 10 bvrs .
Regards

There are no 10 bvrs. And I'm not sure about changing pylons for more BVR missiles part. Only stated by the guy who made this diagram. Right now all we see is 4X PL-15 and 2X PL10 max for J-10C.

 

[Deino]

Kindly look at the pictogram shared . It shows 10 bvrs .
Regards

Ok ... but as I already noted, this is wrong! The J-10 was never seen carrying PL-12/15s on the centerline station and plain impossible to do this on twin-launchers. There is simply not enough space ... this diagram is nice, but not more than a fan's wishful thinking!

This is correct! However we have never seen 10x 250 kg guided bombs so far.