PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Zarf]

Such are the people responsible to pump up Abhinandan and Avenger 1 and getting shot down. Honestly, I personally see these people doing great service.

Governments actually spend money to spread disinformation. Indians do it themselves for us.

 

[ziaulislam]

Bye bye Mirage? Hope some are donated to various aviation museums around the world as soft power projection.

You wish
Lasti heard all fo the mirage v are being moved into tactical squardon
This means at least 2030 these will keep flying

Yes the f7pgs & mirage 3 will go

 

[Trailer23]

Some kind of article from China, translated to English...

Link

Pakistan did these 3 things before buying the J-10C! Confirm that it is stronger than the Rafale fighter before placing the order
2022-02-19


Recently, a J-10C painted with the Pakistan Air Force logo was exposed, and the news quickly became popular on the China-Pakistan network. This shows that the J-10C is about to be exported to Pakistan, and the rumors for many years have finally landed!

As we all know, although the economy is poor, Pakistan is very picky when purchasing equipment. When purchasing expensive equipment such as fighter jets, it is even more thoughtful and shopping around. This is the opposite of neighboring India.

Therefore, Pakistan's final decision to buy the J-10C must be because this equipment can meet its strategic needs!

In fact, Pakistan did 3 things before finally deciding to purchase the J-10C.
1. In 2020, Pakistan will test the J-10C and J-11BS through the "China-Pakistan Eagle-2020" military exercise, confirming that the J-10C's stand-alone combat capabilities and system combat capabilities are superior to those of the Xiaolong fighter.

On December 9, 2020 local time in Pakistan, the ninth China-Pakistan "Eagle" joint air military exercise officially kicked off at the Borali Air Force Base in Pakistan. The Pakistani side dispatched JF17 "Fierce Dragon" fighter jets, "Phantom III" fighter jets, J-7P fighter jets and ZDK-03 airborne early warning aircraft. The Chinese side dispatched the AL-31FN version of the J-10C fighter, the J-11BS heavy fighter, the Yun-8 electronic jammer and the "Air Police 500" airborne early warning aircraft.

It can be seen that this exercise includes system confrontation! This shows that Pakistan not only hopes to test the air combat performance of the J-10C through this confrontation, but also hopes to test the combat performance of the J-10C system.

After the exercise, Omar, an ace pilot of the Pakistan Air Force who has experience in piloting American F-15 and F-16 fighter jets, spoke highly of the J-10C in an interview with the media!



Omar said: "The J-10C fighter has better acceleration performance and vertical climb ability thanks to its powerful engine. Among all single-engine fighter jets, the vertical climb ability of the J-10C is only inferior to that of the F-16. Better than Mirage 2000 and JF17.

In addition, the J-10C is equipped with a more advanced phased array radar, equipped with the PL-15 air-to-air missile with a longer range, and has a strong over-the-horizon combat capability. Therefore, when facing the J-10C, Omar believes that it must be Defensive maneuvers are started from a long distance, but this will seriously consume the fuel of the fighter and the mental strength of the pilot, and even if the flight is full of energy to survive this stage, the subsequent air combat will be extremely difficult.

The J-10C entering a close-quarters combat state is still very scary, it can circle at an extremely fast rate, and even the F-16 can't keep up with the J-10C's maneuvering at the beginning. Because the instantaneous turning rate of the J-10C is S+ grade, with the helmet sights and large off-axis air-to-air missiles, it can lock the enemy aircraft at a very exaggerated angle. How to ensure that the J-10C is not shot down in the first 30 seconds? A problem for pilots!

There are also many problems with the J-10C, such as the limited BVR (beyond visual range air combat) mounting capability, usually only two BVR missiles can be mounted, which makes it unable to fully exert its BVR combat capability. And the J-10C does not have a conformal fuel tank, so the heavy hanging points on the inside of the wing cannot be released. This aspect is not as good as the F-16 fighter, let alone compared with the F-15.

In addition, the continuous turning ability of the J-10C is not strong. If it can ensure that it will not be shot down by the J-10C 30 seconds before the intersection, its energy decay rate will become faster and faster, and it has to sacrifice height in exchange for enough potential energy. At this time, it is a Excellent chance to kill.

The J-10C still has great potential for improvement. In the future, after changing to a more advanced engine, the J-10C can make up for its shortcomings in range and ammunition capacity. If necessary, a conformal fuel tank can be installed to increase the number of weapon hardpoints. Use this to your full potential! "

What does that mean? Here is a brief summary for you.

In terms of advantages: the acceleration performance of the J-10C is very good, at least not worse than the F-16. In terms of close combat, the instant disk of the J-10C is very good, even worse than the F16. In terms of over-the-horizon air combat, the J-10C has a very powerful over-the-horizon air combat capability with advanced radar, avionics system and air-to-air missiles, surpassing the F-16.

Disadvantages: The J-10C's vertical climb ability and stability are not as good as the F-16. The lack of conformal fuel tanks results in limited over-the-horizon air combat mountability, wasting its powerful over-the-horizon perception capabilities.



The overall evaluation is that compared with the F-16 in the early 30 seconds, the advantage is very large, and the continuous combat capability is not as good as the F-16, but the improvement potential is great.

Through this exercise, Pakistan also found out how much advantage the J-10C has over the J-10C in air combat capability and system combat effectiveness.

Many people disdain the smaller Xiaolong fighter, but this fighter is far from being as harmless as it seems on the surface! According tothe information released by Turkeythe annual "Anatolian Eagle" exercise in2019, theXiaolong fighter performed extremely well in the close-quarters combat project, and successfully locked the American F-15E fighter only 8 minutes after takeoff. , shocked European and American countries.

2. In June 2021, Pakistan sent the Xiaolong fighter to Turkey to participate in the "Anatolian Eagle" multinational joint military exercise to find out the actual performance of the French Rafale fighter.

In June 2021, Pakistan sent Xiaolong fighter jets to participate in the "Anatolian Eagle" multinational joint air force exercise, competing on the same stage with F-16 fighter jets, MiG-29 fighter jets and "Rafale" fighter jets. According to a report by the Russian Satellite News Agency on July 16, the "Anatolian Eagle-2021" military exercise held by Turkey has ended. In the battle between the Xiaolong and the Rafale fighter, the Xiaolong shot down all four Rafale fighters of the opponent. , while the 6 Xiaolongs dispatched by their own side lost 2. Such an amazing performance once again shocked the countries. You must know that the Xiaolong fighter is just a light fighter with a maximum take-off weight about half of the French Rafale fighter. I did not expect that the air combat capability would be so powerful.

The four Rafale fighter jets in this exercise were dispatched by Qatar, which belongs to the same Arab camp. The relationship between the two countries is good. Do you think the Pakistani pilots have ever sat in the cockpit to experience the Rafale fighter jets in private? At this time, the Indian Air Force does not know how to feel?

Through this exercise, Pakistan can be considered to find out the actual performance of the French Rafale fighter. By comparison, Pakistan can easily compare the actual air combat performance of the J-10C and the French Rafale fighter. In view of the fact that both the J-10C and Xiaolong fighters are from the hands of my country's Chengfei, if the Xiaolong fighter has stronger air combat capability, the Chinese Air Force has no reason to give up the Xiaolong fighter and equip the J-10C fighter alone. Therefore, we can think that the J-10C has complete air combat capability. It can completely suppress the Xiaolong fighter.

The basic logic is this, the French Rafale air combat strength and the Xiaolong fighter are half a pound, and they can't even beat the Xiaolong fighter in close combat, but the J-10C can completely crush the Xiaolong fighter, so it can be considered that the J-10C air combat capability can completely suppress France. Rafale Fighter!

3. Pakistan requires my country to make some improvements to the J-10CP it ordered, and its performance is likely to surpass my country's own version of the J-10C.

Careful netizens will find that the J-10CP exported to Pakistan is not exactly the same as the J-10C for my country's own use.

The first is to replace the engine from the original AL-31FN to the turbofan 10B independently developed by my country. In contrast, the Xiaolong fighter still uses the Russian-made RD-93MA engine, and has not been replaced with my country's imitation micro-modification - Turbofan 13 or Turbofan 13E. This shows that, on the one hand, the reliability of the turbofan 10B is at least equivalent to that of the AL-31FN, and on the other hand, the thrust of the turbofan 10B is greater than that of the AL-31FN, and the production of the turbofan 0B in my country has been greatly improved, so that the J-10C is even more powerful. All single-engine fighters can be replaced in batches.

As mentioned above, the Pakistani ace pilot Omar once pointed out that the thrust of the J-10C engine is not large enough, resulting in a rapid decline in the continuous maneuverability, and it is necessary to replace the engine with a higher thrust. Its thrust in order to improve the stability and vertical climb of the J-10CP.

It is understood that the maximum thrust of the AL31FN-M1 used by the J-10C is 132 kN (about 13.5 tons), while the maximum thrust of my country's turbofan 10B reaches 144 kN (about 14.7 tons), which is 12 kN larger than the former!

Secondly, the antenna settings of the J-10CP are different from those of our own version. The electronic warfare radio frequency antennas on both sides of the vertical tail of the J-10CP and the missile approach warning device in the air intake have been retained, but the two data link antennas on the back of the J-10C fighter fuselage have become one by the J-10CP, located in the aircraft. The data link antenna in the middle of the back has been cancelled, and the antenna shape has also changed from the rectangular shape of the J-10C to a knife shape, which is the same as the data link antenna of the Pakistan Air Force's "Fierce Dragon" fighter.

It is estimated that the J-10CP has changed the airborne data link antenna to the Link-16 standard of the Pakistan Air Force to ensure that it can share air situation data with the Pakistani early warning aircraft and even the F-16 fighter. The canceled data link antenna is likely to be my country's "unique hidden weapon", similar to the inter-machine data link of the F-22 fighter jet or the advanced tactical data link antenna of the F-35. This type of data link communication has better confidentiality. It may be used to exchange information with stealth fighters for coordinated operations.

In addition to these two differences, there are no other changes that we can't see from the appearance, but given that Pakistan's past practice is to like customization, it is expected that the J-10CP will have other changes.

Based on this, we can speculate that the one-on-one capability of the J-10CP ordered by Pakistan may even surpass my country's own version of the J-10C! At this moment, we can't help but sweat for the Indian Air Force! In the future, will the Indian Rafale M fighter encounter the J-10CP and be beaten all over the place?

The most frustrating thing for the Indian Air Force is that 36 French Rafale M fighters cost 7.87 billion euros (about 8.9 billion US dollars), while Pakistan's 36 customized J-10CPs cost only 1.5 billion US dollars! That is to say, Pakistan only spent about one-sixth of the price to disintegrate the strategic advantage of the Air Force built by India at a high price!

Finally, I summarize the reasons why Pakistan purchased the customized version of the J-10CP in 10 words: the single-handedness can be strong and the price is cheap.

 

[Raider 21]

Some kind of article from China, translated to English...

Link

Pakistan did these 3 things before buying the J-10C! Confirm that it is stronger than the Rafale fighter before placing the order
2022-02-19


Recently, a J-10C painted with the Pakistan Air Force logo was exposed, and the news quickly became popular on the China-Pakistan network. This shows that the J-10C is about to be exported to Pakistan, and the rumors for many years have finally landed!

As we all know, although the economy is poor, Pakistan is very picky when purchasing equipment. When purchasing expensive equipment such as fighter jets, it is even more thoughtful and shopping around. This is the opposite of neighboring India.

Therefore, Pakistan's final decision to buy the J-10C must be because this equipment can meet its strategic needs!

In fact, Pakistan did 3 things before finally deciding to purchase the J-10C.
1. In 2020, Pakistan will test the J-10C and J-11BS through the "China-Pakistan Eagle-2020" military exercise, confirming that the J-10C's stand-alone combat capabilities and system combat capabilities are superior to those of the Xiaolong fighter.

On December 9, 2020 local time in Pakistan, the ninth China-Pakistan "Eagle" joint air military exercise officially kicked off at the Borali Air Force Base in Pakistan. The Pakistani side dispatched JF17 "Fierce Dragon" fighter jets, "Phantom III" fighter jets, J-7P fighter jets and ZDK-03 airborne early warning aircraft. The Chinese side dispatched the AL-31FN version of the J-10C fighter, the J-11BS heavy fighter, the Yun-8 electronic jammer and the "Air Police 500" airborne early warning aircraft.

It can be seen that this exercise includes system confrontation! This shows that Pakistan not only hopes to test the air combat performance of the J-10C through this confrontation, but also hopes to test the combat performance of the J-10C system.

After the exercise, Omar, an ace pilot of the Pakistan Air Force who has experience in piloting American F-15 and F-16 fighter jets, spoke highly of the J-10C in an interview with the media!



Omar said: "The J-10C fighter has better acceleration performance and vertical climb ability thanks to its powerful engine. Among all single-engine fighter jets, the vertical climb ability of the J-10C is only inferior to that of the F-16. Better than Mirage 2000 and JF17.

In addition, the J-10C is equipped with a more advanced phased array radar, equipped with the PL-15 air-to-air missile with a longer range, and has a strong over-the-horizon combat capability. Therefore, when facing the J-10C, Omar believes that it must be Defensive maneuvers are started from a long distance, but this will seriously consume the fuel of the fighter and the mental strength of the pilot, and even if the flight is full of energy to survive this stage, the subsequent air combat will be extremely difficult.

The J-10C entering a close-quarters combat state is still very scary, it can circle at an extremely fast rate, and even the F-16 can't keep up with the J-10C's maneuvering at the beginning. Because the instantaneous turning rate of the J-10C is S+ grade, with the helmet sights and large off-axis air-to-air missiles, it can lock the enemy aircraft at a very exaggerated angle. How to ensure that the J-10C is not shot down in the first 30 seconds? A problem for pilots!

There are also many problems with the J-10C, such as the limited BVR (beyond visual range air combat) mounting capability, usually only two BVR missiles can be mounted, which makes it unable to fully exert its BVR combat capability. And the J-10C does not have a conformal fuel tank, so the heavy hanging points on the inside of the wing cannot be released. This aspect is not as good as the F-16 fighter, let alone compared with the F-15.

In addition, the continuous turning ability of the J-10C is not strong. If it can ensure that it will not be shot down by the J-10C 30 seconds before the intersection, its energy decay rate will become faster and faster, and it has to sacrifice height in exchange for enough potential energy. At this time, it is a Excellent chance to kill.

The J-10C still has great potential for improvement. In the future, after changing to a more advanced engine, the J-10C can make up for its shortcomings in range and ammunition capacity. If necessary, a conformal fuel tank can be installed to increase the number of weapon hardpoints. Use this to your full potential! "

What does that mean? Here is a brief summary for you.

In terms of advantages: the acceleration performance of the J-10C is very good, at least not worse than the F-16. In terms of close combat, the instant disk of the J-10C is very good, even worse than the F16. In terms of over-the-horizon air combat, the J-10C has a very powerful over-the-horizon air combat capability with advanced radar, avionics system and air-to-air missiles, surpassing the F-16.

Disadvantages: The J-10C's vertical climb ability and stability are not as good as the F-16. The lack of conformal fuel tanks results in limited over-the-horizon air combat mountability, wasting its powerful over-the-horizon perception capabilities.



The overall evaluation is that compared with the F-16 in the early 30 seconds, the advantage is very large, and the continuous combat capability is not as good as the F-16, but the improvement potential is great.

Through this exercise, Pakistan also found out how much advantage the J-10C has over the J-10C in air combat capability and system combat effectiveness.

Many people disdain the smaller Xiaolong fighter, but this fighter is far from being as harmless as it seems on the surface! According tothe information released by Turkeythe annual "Anatolian Eagle" exercise in2019, theXiaolong fighter performed extremely well in the close-quarters combat project, and successfully locked the American F-15E fighter only 8 minutes after takeoff. , shocked European and American countries.

2. In June 2021, Pakistan sent the Xiaolong fighter to Turkey to participate in the "Anatolian Eagle" multinational joint military exercise to find out the actual performance of the French Rafale fighter.

In June 2021, Pakistan sent Xiaolong fighter jets to participate in the "Anatolian Eagle" multinational joint air force exercise, competing on the same stage with F-16 fighter jets, MiG-29 fighter jets and "Rafale" fighter jets. According to a report by the Russian Satellite News Agency on July 16, the "Anatolian Eagle-2021" military exercise held by Turkey has ended. In the battle between the Xiaolong and the Rafale fighter, the Xiaolong shot down all four Rafale fighters of the opponent. , while the 6 Xiaolongs dispatched by their own side lost 2. Such an amazing performance once again shocked the countries. You must know that the Xiaolong fighter is just a light fighter with a maximum take-off weight about half of the French Rafale fighter. I did not expect that the air combat capability would be so powerful.

The four Rafale fighter jets in this exercise were dispatched by Qatar, which belongs to the same Arab camp. The relationship between the two countries is good. Do you think the Pakistani pilots have ever sat in the cockpit to experience the Rafale fighter jets in private? At this time, the Indian Air Force does not know how to feel?

Through this exercise, Pakistan can be considered to find out the actual performance of the French Rafale fighter. By comparison, Pakistan can easily compare the actual air combat performance of the J-10C and the French Rafale fighter. In view of the fact that both the J-10C and Xiaolong fighters are from the hands of my country's Chengfei, if the Xiaolong fighter has stronger air combat capability, the Chinese Air Force has no reason to give up the Xiaolong fighter and equip the J-10C fighter alone. Therefore, we can think that the J-10C has complete air combat capability. It can completely suppress the Xiaolong fighter.

The basic logic is this, the French Rafale air combat strength and the Xiaolong fighter are half a pound, and they can't even beat the Xiaolong fighter in close combat, but the J-10C can completely crush the Xiaolong fighter, so it can be considered that the J-10C air combat capability can completely suppress France. Rafale Fighter!

3. Pakistan requires my country to make some improvements to the J-10CP it ordered, and its performance is likely to surpass my country's own version of the J-10C.

Careful netizens will find that the J-10CP exported to Pakistan is not exactly the same as the J-10C for my country's own use.

The first is to replace the engine from the original AL-31FN to the turbofan 10B independently developed by my country. In contrast, the Xiaolong fighter still uses the Russian-made RD-93MA engine, and has not been replaced with my country's imitation micro-modification - Turbofan 13 or Turbofan 13E. This shows that, on the one hand, the reliability of the turbofan 10B is at least equivalent to that of the AL-31FN, and on the other hand, the thrust of the turbofan 10B is greater than that of the AL-31FN, and the production of the turbofan 0B in my country has been greatly improved, so that the J-10C is even more powerful. All single-engine fighters can be replaced in batches.

As mentioned above, the Pakistani ace pilot Omar once pointed out that the thrust of the J-10C engine is not large enough, resulting in a rapid decline in the continuous maneuverability, and it is necessary to replace the engine with a higher thrust. Its thrust in order to improve the stability and vertical climb of the J-10CP.

It is understood that the maximum thrust of the AL31FN-M1 used by the J-10C is 132 kN (about 13.5 tons), while the maximum thrust of my country's turbofan 10B reaches 144 kN (about 14.7 tons), which is 12 kN larger than the former!

Secondly, the antenna settings of the J-10CP are different from those of our own version. The electronic warfare radio frequency antennas on both sides of the vertical tail of the J-10CP and the missile approach warning device in the air intake have been retained, but the two data link antennas on the back of the J-10C fighter fuselage have become one by the J-10CP, located in the aircraft. The data link antenna in the middle of the back has been cancelled, and the antenna shape has also changed from the rectangular shape of the J-10C to a knife shape, which is the same as the data link antenna of the Pakistan Air Force's "Fierce Dragon" fighter.

It is estimated that the J-10CP has changed the airborne data link antenna to the Link-16 standard of the Pakistan Air Force to ensure that it can share air situation data with the Pakistani early warning aircraft and even the F-16 fighter. The canceled data link antenna is likely to be my country's "unique hidden weapon", similar to the inter-machine data link of the F-22 fighter jet or the advanced tactical data link antenna of the F-35. This type of data link communication has better confidentiality. It may be used to exchange information with stealth fighters for coordinated operations.

In addition to these two differences, there are no other changes that we can't see from the appearance, but given that Pakistan's past practice is to like customization, it is expected that the J-10CP will have other changes.

Based on this, we can speculate that the one-on-one capability of the J-10CP ordered by Pakistan may even surpass my country's own version of the J-10C! At this moment, we can't help but sweat for the Indian Air Force! In the future, will the Indian Rafale M fighter encounter the J-10CP and be beaten all over the place?

The most frustrating thing for the Indian Air Force is that 36 French Rafale M fighters cost 7.87 billion euros (about 8.9 billion US dollars), while Pakistan's 36 customized J-10CPs cost only 1.5 billion US dollars! That is to say, Pakistan only spent about one-sixth of the price to disintegrate the strategic advantage of the Air Force built by India at a high price!

Finally, I summarize the reasons why Pakistan purchased the customized version of the J-10CP in 10 words: the single-handedness can be strong and the price is cheap.

Omar is an ace, who flew F-15s and F-16s from a country that is poor yet picky with fighter jets. Some of that translation has humour to it.

 

[The Eagle]

Omar is an ace, who flew F-15s and F-16s from a country that is poor yet picky with fighter jets.

Lost in translation. It would have been mentioned like smart induction or quality edge. PAF doesn't just buy something but wants beat bang for the buck given the economic constraints.

 

[Trailer23]

Omar is an ace, who flew F-15s and F-16s from a country that is poor yet picky with fighter jets. Some of that translation has humour to it.

Which is why I mentioned 'Translated'.

Anyways, it was an interesting read 'cause we got a chance to get views of our own Pilots on the exercise - something that's commonly excluded from our end.

I do wonder, all this custom job PAF has done on the J-10C - what has it cost us from the basic variant of the J-10E (export variant)?

I ask because its not just about choosing a Radar, but there seem to be a number of components in the exterior that appear clear as day different to the J-10C. Who is to know what other sensors & more importantly what type of EW Suite has been installed.

Sincerely wish there was a Dual-Seater variant of this jet from a WSO.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The Omar pilot thing was a B.S. story concocted on Chinese internet. Don't take it seriously.

 

[Aesterix]

Which is why I mentioned 'Translated'.

Anyways, it was an interesting read 'cause we got a chance to get views of our own Pilots on the exercise - something that's commonly excluded from our end.

I do wonder, all this custom job PAF has done on the J-10C - what has it cost us from the basic variant of the J-10E (export variant)?

I ask because its not just about choosing a Radar, but there seem to be a number of components in the exterior that appear clear as day different to the J-10C. Who is to know what other sensors & more importantly what type of EW Suite has been installed.

Sincerely wish there was a Dual-Seater variant of this jet from a WSO.

So the article pretty much confirmed that Pakistan integrated own data link and at least some components of own EW system.

The Omar pilot thing was a B.S. story concocted on Chinese internet. Don't take it seriously.

Some comments from some Pakistani pilots may have been made during joint exercises. It's not out of the realms of possibility.
The name may not be accurate.

 

[The Terminator]

Cow was not available, I believe.

French are historically known for their cow country

 

[spectregunship]

This induction reminds of the F-16 euphoria from back in 1983, when they first landed in Pakistan and were shown on PTV.
I was in school and within a month F-16 was everywhere. It was on our school bags, our lunch boxes. There were sweets sold with F-16 pictures.
In urdu we called it "Eff solaa".
In 1990 I sneaked into Masroor base, just to see F-16. Yes it was possible back then, as no suicide bombings and even air bases had relaxed security.
Then solely for the purpose of flying an Eff solaa, I appeared for PAF tests for pilot, passed everything and failed in final selection at AHQ

Here is a pic of the first landing of F-16. There were some American pilots too, which I remember from the original PTV news, but can't find any pics anymore.

View attachment 816583

The dashing AM Shahid Latif

 

[The Terminator]

From where did they learn about the performance? Does it mean what is generally known publicly?

Qatar

Both Turkey and Pakistan extensively tested the Rafales and pitched them against their own platforms in simulated combats

 

[MH.Yang]

French are historically known for their cow country

France?
I heard that the French are famous in history for their multifunctional flag.

When the emperor came, they used the left side of the national flag.
When the revolution came, they used the right side of the national flag.
When the Germans came, they used the middle of the flag.

 

[Vortex]

French are historically known for their cow country

Lol i don’t cow if they au are known for their cow or not but I cow for sure they are for their cheese

France?
I heard that the French are famous in history for their multifunctional flag.

When the emperor came, they used the left side of the national flag.
When the revolution came, they used the right side of the national flag.
When the Germans came, they used the middle of the flag.

View attachment 816672

Lol good catch

 

[maverick1977]

It is battelstar galactica.

No its an imperial star destroyer lol

 

[Thorough Pro]

For GOD's sake grow up.

All kinds of weapon systems. From weapons to EW to other systems will be coming. All three forces are buying lot of weapons and lot more will be bought. Off several types.