PAC And China,s JXX/J14 Project

[LCA Tejas]

and are FC-1 getting inducted into PLAAF????

 

[TaimiKhan]

and are FC-1 getting inducted into PLAAF????

For the time being NO, but no official version on the induction yet came to light. Yeah, one the Chinese engine comes online, then may be the situation will get cleared up.

Do remember a FC-1 Prototye#06 is being flown in China, equipped with Chinese communication equipment.

So there is still time, to have a clear picture.

 

[LCA Tejas]

For the time being NO, but no official version on the induction yet came to light. Yeah, one the Chinese engine comes online, then may be the situation will get cleared up.

Do remember a FC-1 Prototye#06 is being flown in China, equipped with Chinese communication equipment.

So there is still time, to have a clear picture.

Thats cool enough.... What is differance between JF-17 and FC-1 Sir? I mean are there any extra features added to meet pakistan's needs?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Past Trends?
The Chinese haven't provided you with their frontline Type 99 tanks yet..
Now since india has officially stated it intends to be building the next gen tanks with russians, please don't say that you wouldn't like to have type 99s in your inventory.. And for the Al-Khalid/MBT 2000, they are only modified version of Type 8x tanks, which even the Chinese aren't inducting any more.. And i don't see Nuclear submarines coming from China either.. Rings any bell?

Talk about the past trends.. And it only shows that Chinese have not always made available to you their TOP-OF-THE-LINE weapons system..
Thus your argument that J-XX will be made available to you as soon as its inducted into the PLAAF falls flat on its face in the context of PAST TRENDS argument too..
the only thing certain is that nothing is certain about the future of J-XX in the PAF right now.. It may be.. It maybe not..

As for the rest.. J-XX is a reality.. We can only afford to ignore at our own risk

First of all Type-99 wasn't there when we went for AK.

And Chinese Type-99 may not be suitable for our requirements without some modifications. That is why we went for as per our requirement AK, which is not based on Type-8X series, but its built from Type-90 series. And don't worry, AK and Type 99 aren't that much different from each other, and future version of AK would be in no way different or less then Type-99. Type-99 serves Chinese requirements, and AK serves our requirements to the fullest.

And we don;t need any nuclear submarines, so you can sleep well now. Nuclear submarine doesn't means a nuclear submarine as an answer, there are other options too.

And yeah, we did got top of the line equipment from the Chinese whenever required, may be you need to look deep into the past trends and transactions.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thats cool enough.... What is differance between JF-17 and FC-1 Sir? I mean are there any extra features added to meet pakistan's needs?

For the time being, only communication equipment seems different.

Plus, no one knows, may be the export models get something downgraded or missing compared to what we got in our JF-17s.

In the ECMs & ECCMs category i mean.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Not at all.. The only logic being put forward in favour of pakistan recieving J-XX is

1) Pakistan is an alley and thus has received weapons from china in the past. And it will be the same this time also..

Well.. There is this flaw.. J-XX will be something that in military parlance is called TOP-OF-THE-LINE.. And it will be an Elite technology.. Very Closely guarded and highly off limits to anybody but the Chinese for quite some time to come.. The same way F-22, will not be given away to even the closest of American alley for the foreseeable future.. At the max, a pared down virsion may be offered.. Then that too wont be anytime soon..

2) China will make it affordable for pakistan to procure like it has done before..

Its a billion dollar game.. With billions of dollars of investment and man-hours put into this bird, china will not go on a charity spree with this thing.. It will first build it exclusively for its own military first.. And as and when it is made available to market, it will not come cheap.. Neither for pakistan.. Especially when pakistan is not in any way a partner in this project..



PLEASE TAIMI Sir.. NO NEED TO WISH EACH AND EVERY INDIAN POSTER A SWEET DREAM.. Our dream become sweet whenever we think of a beautiful and prosperous Pakistan.. An ARMED-TO-THE-TEETH Pakistan doesnot form a part of our beautiful picture.. We are not any different people than you..

As for your point 1 & 2, as i said, whatever makes you guys happy and sleep well at night.

And as for Armed to the teeth, would be better to see the mirror and see who is more armed to the teeth.

With a stable and prosperous Pakistan, a well armed Pakistan is also very very necessary, as we don't wish to be dominated by one big fierce bully

 

[LCA Tejas]

For the time being, only communication equipment seems different.

Plus, no one knows, may be the export models get something downgraded or missing compared to what we got in our JF-17s.

In the ECMs & ECCMs category i mean.

Indeed nice, Hey and One more question, Dont think that Iam troubling you... Sorry If am Wasting ur time, Just want to ask u more and more as You are giving satisfactory answer's.... Is Pakistan allowed to sell its JF-17's?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Indeed nice, Hey and One more question, Dont think that Iam troubling you... Sorry If am Wasting ur time, Just want to ask u more and more as You are giving satisfactory answer's.... Is Pakistan allowed to sell its JF-17's?

Pakistan has been given full marketing rights, it can negotiate deals and take orders. But the profit sharing formula isn't known yet, nor is the sharing of work formula. As we still have to achieve a 100% airframe production capability and avionics too. Engine is the biggest issue for now, as Russia may restrict its exports to certain countries where its own prospects for export get threatened. As per public info, Russia has given go ahead or NOC for its engines for 6 countries export.

Once, Chinese engine comes online, then no worries.

 

[LCA Tejas]

Pakistan has been given full marketing rights, it can negotiate deals and take orders. But the profit sharing formula isn't known yet, nor is the sharing of work formula. As we still have to achieve a 100% airframe production capability and avionics too. Engine is the biggest issue for now, as Russia may restrict its exports to certain countries where its own prospects for export get threatened. As per public info, Russia has given go ahead or NOC for its engines for 6 countries export.

Once, Chinese engine comes online, then no worries.

Thats great, Full marketing rights is indeed a great thing you guys have... Good luck with that sir...

 

[mean_bird]

_ PAF will be getting these as soon as they are available to PLAAF, to make up 3-4 of its squadrons..

Now where does that come from?
Any official or credible sources?.. Any credible indication from either of the parties involved..

Why should anyone bother to provide you "sources....lets see....do YOU have any credible source or indication that they wont?

The damn thing isn't even up in the air yet. Until a couple of months ago, they didn't even acknowledge it, and here you are asking for sources of whether they will sell it?

Wait for it to fly and be ready. Only then can you make that claim if PAF requests for such a plane and it is denied.

The same way F-22, will not be given away to even the closest of American alley for the foreseeable future.. At the max, a pared down version may be offered..

First of all, no one gives their TOP OF THE LINE product. Export version are almost always different. USAF flies different F-16s than anyone else. What do you think the "MK" stands for in your super dooper MKI? And while the F-22 is not for export, the F-35 is and it is considered good enough for those who buy it.

The Chinese haven't provided you with their frontline Type 99 tanks yet..

Talk about the past trends.. And it only shows that Chinese have not always made available to you their TOP-OF-THE-LINE weapons system..

For you to claim Type 99 "was not provided", first you need to prove that it was requested. PAF doesn't fly EF or Rafale either, does that mean they were unavailable?

Pakistan has always looked for cost-effective solutions that it can afford. The JF-17 could as easily have been a medium weight fighter instead if that was not the case.

 

[Adios Amigo]

_ PAF will be getting these as soon as they are available to PLAAF, to make up 3-4 of its squadrons..

Now where does that come from?
Any official or credible sources?.. Any credible indication from either of the parties involved.. Or is it just Sino-Pak Friendship you are counting upon.. That would be counting chickens before they hatch..
Cause like i had posted before, apprehensions arise because J-XX will be something that in military parlance is called TOP-OF-THE-LINE.. And it will be an Elite technology.. Very Closely guarded and highly off limits to anybody but the Chinese, for quite some time to come.. The same way F-22, will not be given away to even the closest of American alley for the foreseeable future.. At the max, a pared down version may be offered.. Then that too wont be anytime soon.. And offcorz not at a heavily subsidized cost that my friends hare are claiming to..

Feel free to argue..

On one hand, you guys accuse us of having relations in nuclear and missile Technology. Hell you openly claim, that china provided us all the nuclear Tech and related stuff, and all the missiles in our inventory are of Chinese origin. You bash us with that without proofs on daily basis. And now you claim china wont be providing us its top of the line jet fighters. What hypocrites you guys are

well this is for the first time I am hearing that a conventional weapon is far more important and of greater value then weapons of mass destruction


All you are doing here is only, deceiving yourselves. I can probably make a very long post. with all the needed examples and reasons to prove you wrong, as Taimi and mean bird did,but no need, you do not deserve it, cause deep down you understand that but still you don't want to understand.




some buddy, bring in Growler to this thread, he is a cut throat for these nut jobs






adios

 

[baba firangi]

On one hand, you guys accuse us of having relations in nuclear and missile Technology. Hell you openly claim, that china provided us all the nuclear Tech and related stuff, and all the missiles in our inventory are of Chinese origin. You bash us with that without proofs on daily basis. And now you claim china wont be providing us its top of the line jet fighters. What hypocrites you guys are

It seems you are naive or rather pretending to be naive here.. Therez something called clandestine support.. look up oxford dictionary to get its meaning.. While nuclear technology can be shared clandestinely, It would be obvious to any sane mind that Air crafts cannot be.. Anyways Again, Chinese provided you with a very primitive blueprint.. It was the technology obtained by espoinage from nuclear installations in europe that let you build an advanced bomb.. Neyz.. Believe what you wish.. Am not here to undermine your country's achievements... I Respect the brains that work hard to make dreams come true..

well this is for the first time I am hearing that a conventional weapon is far more important and of greater value then weapons of mass destruction

Yes it is.. Nuclear weapon is not an end unto itself.. That is the reason why nuclear powers over the world spend considerably more into conventional weapons than on nuclear ones..

some buddy, bring in Growler to this thread, he is a cut throat for these nut jobs

HaHaHa.. So now you need to bring in somebody else to play the balls for you.. Dont' bother.. I expected a decent debate.. not a fanboy jingoism.. looking at your previous posts i thought you were capable of a much more wiser discussion.. Anyways will still look for productive discussion wid you..

 

[notorious_eagle]

and are FC-1 getting inducted into PLAAF????

I know Taimi has answered this question but i will add one more thing, although the Chinese are evaluating this platform and the upgrade process has already started for the next batch keep in mind that China is a country with huge economic resources. Unlike PAF they can simply induct the J10's and J11's in huge numbers, due to the vast size of China they need fighters that have high endurance level so that is why their is a possability the Chinese might not induct FC1.

 

[pak-yes]

So what is all the talk about J-XX.Good i just hope that Pakistan gets it in time(10-12 years).

 

[unicorn148]

10-12 years is too early because it will take 10-12 years for china to induct this plane so add five more years for Pakistan and this jet will be costly may be more than 75million$ because the J10 costing you 45million $