Option's for PAF ?

[thrilainmanila]

It is impossible to think of a way for a NATO airforce or China to combat the Indian Air Force never mind the pak airforce, the truth of the matter is our airforce was already outmatched by the existing IAF this new one with rafales would literally turn the tide of any potential conflict against pak, F16s are not the answer, the only possible option is F35 and there is a better chance of Tupac coming from the dead and releasing a new album then there is of paf getting JSF the Chinese options are all inferior to the rafale

It's funny how ppl think this Chinese stealth plane FC31 is the answer a plane which got poor ratings in the Zuhai airshow, a plane which has inferior engines and is unproven, pak needs to get the economy running and opt for the euro fighter or an advanced Russian plane

 

[Mrc]

It is impossible to think of a way for a NATO airforce or China to combat the Indian Air Force never mind the pak airforce, the truth of the matter is our airforce was already outmatched by the existing IAF this new one with rafales would literally turn the tide of any potential conflict against pak, F16s are not the answer, the only possible option is F35 and there is a better chance of Tupac coming from the dead and releasing a new album then there is of paf getting JSF the Chinese options are all inferior to the rafale

It's funny how ppl think this Chinese stealth plane FC31 is the answer a plane which got poor ratings in the Zuhai airshow, a plane which has inferior engines and is unproven, pak needs to get the economy running and opt for the euro fighter or an advanced Russian plane

Its funny...buying a plane from a nato country and than dreaming how impossible it is for nato airforces to face IAF ....
I guess there is no limit to day dreaming

 

[UKBengali]

Its funny...buying a plane from a nato country and than dreaming how impossible it is for nato airforces to face IAF ....
I guess there is no limit to day dreaming

Lol @ "unproven" comment.

Yes the current J-31 has the weak RD-93 engines but this will be first replaced by the 10,000 kg thrust WS-13A and then a 5th gen engine.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Its funny...buying a plane from a nato country and than dreaming how impossible it is for nato airforces to face IAF ....
I guess there is no limit to day dreaming

Do you honestly think china has anything comparable to the rafale, by the way i'm not indian, i'm not saying india beats china in the war but theres nothing in the PLAAF that can challenge the Rafale, J-10 and J-11 are technologically inferior to the rafale, most Nato airforces do not operate the EF-2000, there basically waiting for the JSF. the only possible planes capable of detering the rafale is the F-22,JSF, super hornet, SU-35 or EF2000, You would be blind not see how powerful the IAF is now with the induction of the rafale, there airforce litrally has Almost 300 flankers, 120 or so rafales, mig-29ubs, mirage 2000-5 AND look at our PAF? were still talking about JF-17 as if its capable of doing something infront of the afromentioned aircraft. I'm a realist i see how things for what they are and most top airforces around the world besides the USAF would have trouble combating IAF nevermind the PAF.

inshAllah maybe one day when the economy picks up we'll be able to buy something good like the EF2000.

 

[SrNair]

China may not surpass EU in all fileds but they have surpassed in many and will surpassed in many in near future and that is enough for them in near future to have supiriority over them.

Yes China will buy EU stuff if embargo is lifted not because what they have? but because they want to know their tech too refine their current one if necessary.

And you agreed in there.Chinese are still far behind than EU.
Only superiority that Chinese have is the flooding of others market with Junk Goods.EU is playing with most advanced technology for domestic consumption and also for exports. .Look at their AirBus ,EF or Rafale.China is still decades away from them.

 

[Neptune]

Why is Turkey purchasing only 112 F-35's? They could technically use the second design of TFX which is a multi-role single engined fighter. It could potentially give cost savings same like the F16 and F15 did in the 70's. Moreover then Turkey would have two locally produced 5 gen aircraft giving them a complete strike package. Moreover no limitations and fully exportable.

View attachment 214201

I don't know. But probably because we have been a partner in it for over a decade.

 

[Providence]

Rafale is going to be a nice addition to IAF. Not sure why pakistan memebers here are going bonkers. You guys cannot invest in a platform as of now. The budget wont allow it. Rather you guys can invest in improving others like SAM coverage and other intelligence methods.

Everything has a chink. You just gotta find it.

 

[SQ8]

Everything has a chink. You just gotta find it.

The Chink lies less in a platform and more in a capability. There are various Achilles heels that India has not looked it, however Pakistan's own self defeating R&D mentality of not doing anything until the Indians do is going to take to the grave.

 

[Dnt deliver us from evil]

Pakistan economy is improving by 2017 it would be some where around $ 40Billion reserves.

Do you still think it would not be possible to have a 5th gen by that time?

Forex reserve is there as a collateral to pay short term debt , if that debt is suddenly called upon, and to stablize currency. The moment you start withdrawing your Forex reserve for anything except stablizing your currency, your Economy and market goes to gutter in a handicart.


ON Topic:

While Pakistanis are so perturbed by India's purchase of a 4+++ Gen aircraft, it would be a sight to see when India get FGFA and F-35C.

By 2025-2030 ie in 10-15 years, Indian Navy's carrier wing (3 Aircraft carriers) would itself consist of 120+ Fifth Gen/4++ Gen aircrafts, apart from whatever India Airforce is piling on now and in future.


If Pakistanis want to counter Rafael, they need to get Eurofighter(best choice) , or F-15 SE , or F/A-18SH. The chinese junk would not do much against a EuroCanrd.


To counter IAF's 5th gen (FGFA) or IN's fifth gen (F-35C), PAF would need F-35A (Best option), or J-31 (poor man's stealth).

 

[mkg00179504]

Hello Folks, i am commenting after a long time.I was always here reading PDF but as a guest.
Now lets talk about the topic here.India is getting Rafale which is good but they are not getting it tomorrow. It will take few years for the first jet to land in India and even atleast 5 years after that to come up with tactics and master the jet and also know the strong and weak point of it.
What are PAF options? Some of you are saying J11, J10B, etc. Come on guys why would you need another new platform where it will need so much time , money and other resources to train your pilots and ground staff, and also a whole new platform.Yes it can have things common with JF 17 but JF 17 blk 3 will be as good as J10B. I think the best answer to this is 36-40 F16 blk 60-61.PAF knows this jet inside out.No need to spend extra money on training your staff and pilots.They already have decades of experience on this jet which is battle tested everywhere in the world. 36-40 F16 block 60,61 will do the job perfectly AESA, AIM 9X, New advance BVR and sensors, JHMS will go head to head with Rafale.Also if possible PAF can look for a squadron of used F16 and upgrade it to the best level it can.Yes block 60,61 is expensive but again time is money you saving so much on pilot training, infrastructure,ground support and developing tactics again for a new jet.The day F16 block 60,61 lands in Pakistan your pilot already knows it.Sorry i am not in favor of J10B there is no use for it any more. Should be F16 block 52,60,61 and Mlu to block 50/52 standards along with JF 17 and later J31 or J20 which ever PAF thinks will do the trick.

 

[Ammyy]

You're overestimating Chinese claims.Calm down,if their exagerations would be real people wouldn't be paying three times the amount for Western jets.Egypt would have swimmed in J10's instead of paying a premium for the Rafale.People in the military are not stupid to buy a 150 million $ plane instead of a 50 million $ one.The Problem if your neighbour has that 150 million plane it's not wise to waste 150 million $ on 3 targets for it,but match him with the same quality.

Even Pakistan Army jumped at the occasion of snatching American helos at a high price instead of Chinese ones,they would have done the same with Western subs if the money were there.Same for F16's blk 52 instead of J10's.I could go on and on with examples.I know you're a fanboy of Chinese stuff but sometimes there's no other option but bite the bullet and accept obvious reality.

Please dnt believe these cheerleaders who know nothing about capabilities of these fighters. Actually they are helpless you cant help them. China provide them soft loan, aid to buy their military hardware. They have no other option but to cheer lead china.

@UKBengali what you say??

 

[Dnt deliver us from evil]

Now lets talk about the topic here.India is getting Rafale which is good but they are not getting it tomorrow. It will take few years for the first jet to land in India and even atleast 5 years after that to come up with tactics and master the jet and also know the strong and weak point of it.

These 36 are off the shelf purchase.All of them would be delivered in two years as stated by Dassault and confirmed by hollande and Modi in press conference.

 

[Providence]

The Chink lies less in a platform and more in a capability. There are various Achilles heels that India has not looked it, however Pakistan's own self defeating R&D mentality of not doing anything until the Indians do is going to take to the grave.

Exactly ! Has been my observation as well. I am sure you guys bloated the JF17 capabilities when it was launched but still, it was miles ahead of LCA platform that time. Look now. They fcuking caught up with you.

I would say, pakistan needs to stop fighting fire with fire. It needs to take a step back and brainstorm those "chinks" in IAF and invest in platforms which leverage those.

Look at ruskies. They knew their SSBN capabilities were sub par to US during cold war but they armed themselves to their teeth with long range land/air based cruise missiles and their doctrine was totally different from us.

 

[Kompromat]

Wait for this....just 5 more years.

 

[SQ8]

Exactly ! Has been my observation as well. I am sure you guys bloated the JF17 capabilities when it was launched but still, it was miles ahead of LCA platform that time. Look now. They fcuking caught up with you.

I would say, pakistan needs to stop fighting fire with fire. It needs to take a step back and brainstorm those "chinks" in IAF and invest in platforms which leverage those.

Look at ruskies. They knew their SSBN capabilities were sub par to US during cold war but they armed themselves to their teeth with long range land/air based cruise missiles and their doctrine was totally different from us.

The best example remains that of the Swedes. Which in a way is being implemented in Pakistan but adjusted. The idea is not to worry about every other guy but only those that can cause actual damage. C4i2 should be at a level where every platform can designate targets for a shooter which may or may not have sensors on. Longer ranged weapons or rather weapons that can kill without the target knowing what hit it matter.
An argument that I forward to all those critics of the Raptor who cite the circus parade that is the Russian Flanker series with its hyper manoeuvrability is that even with all the IR detection. stealth will still factor in high. Nothing beats the effect of having your wingman blown to smithereens without any warning whatsoever.. regardless of how many rolls and pirouettes you can do at that instant you are panicking and your cohesion and morale drop..making even 16 jets easy prey for 4. . That sort of mental edge is what the PAF needs, and it may not necessarily be difficult to get.