Option's for PAF ?

[Mrc]

J-10 B is a single engine fighter, Rafale can carry more weapons load, high thrust to weight ration and also bit more manoeuvrable.

Rafale can be configured for many types of missions, J-10 B cannot be ....

Rafale thumps J-10 B or what ever easily.

By this logic mig 29 should easily thump f16

 

[Basel]

J-10 B is a single engine fighter, Rafale can carry more weapons load, high thrust to weight ration and also bit more manoeuvrable.

Rafale can be configured for many types of missions, J-10 B cannot be ....

Rafale thumps J-10 B or what ever easily.

Compare the specs of the two fighter jets before you draw conclusions.

In defensive role J-10B with stuff from 5th gen jet will be on par with Rafale.

 

[Srinivas]

By this logic mig 29 should easily thump f16

Mig 29 is versatile and can give better competition to F16 and can also beat it.

It also depends on the electronics and weapons they use.

In defensive role J-10B with stuff from 5th gen jet will be on par with Rafale.

In that scenario, it depends on the attack formations, Awacs, SAMs, and the terrain on which the battle takes place.

Rafale has good add ons which makes it an advanced jet.

 

[The SC]

Tax revenues from what?

Just state Tax revenues...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Pakisyan has never done so and will never be that stupid. However to sit quietly and not do anything is suicide. We need to maintain a credible defence against your acquisitions. Realistically the only options are either more bl.52s or wait for J31s while building JFT more. J11Bs are not going to cut it for this purpose and we will hurt our fledgeling relationship with Russia as well. The other more tasty offering if the red bear plays ball with us would be SU35s. A couple of squadrons would revert the scales for the next 5 to 10 yrs. However the most realistic option would be J31 or a similar iteration. The question to ask is what would be the most favourable long term answer to the problem. Response from PAF would depend on the finances, and availability options from the Chinese and what the US response to the request would be. In either case the contract is not yet signed and even after signature of the contract there would be a lag period so we do have time although the options should be sorted with a plan B and C.
Araz

A well written and sensible analysis however I don't see any of your suggestions as all that viable:

-J-31 is an unproven plane with paper specs I honestly don't see it entering service anytime soon and when it does the Rafale will still give it (and the J-20) a lot of pain. The Rafale is as advanced as a 4.5 gen plane can get and the French aren't sitting idle, they are deepening on the Rafalr to be their mainstay fighter for the foreseeable future, they have no 5th gen alternative and will through everything at keeping the Rafale cutting edge and relevant.
-The Su-35S is a non-starter, forget the fact that Russia won't do anything as stupid as this and put their tens of billions of defence deals with India at risk (need I say more than the $30 billion USD FGFA project?), there is no way Pakistan could afford this outright (more over the course their lives) and Russia is in no financial position to offer the kind of soft loans China would.

Just state Tax revenues...

So the Pak Govt diverted 66% of its state tax revenues to defence? Wow.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Would TAI TF-X help?

TAI TFX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes it would be an excellent addition but the limitations might be getting permission from Sweden and UK. It is going to be co-produced with SAAB and have EJ-200 engines that are used on EFT.

The delivery would also be late 2030's when the Turkish order is almost over.

 

[princefaisal]

How to defeat spectra system? Rafale is fast enough, agile enough, and powerful enough than any PAF aircraft. Rafale has a much higher rate of climb and has a clear advantage in BVR missiles especially Meteor missile. Similarly MBDA MICA IR will also have an edge in wvr. So all its features must be kept in mind before going for the counter options.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Not much but there'll be European contribution for Engine we suppose. But it'll be locally manufacturered. No US.

It's because that the Air Force wants to retire all F-16s from active duty by the time F-35/TF-X arrives.
Turkey plans to have a dual fighter fleet in future consisting of;

100 F-35A
12 F-35B (Naval Forces)

200 TF-X

Why is Turkey purchasing only 112 F-35's? They could technically use the second design of TFX which is a multi-role single engined fighter. It could potentially give cost savings same like the F16 and F15 did in the 70's. Moreover then Turkey would have two locally produced 5 gen aircraft giving them a complete strike package. Moreover no limitations and fully exportable.

 

[Matrixx]

Options are there but money could be a hurdle....without good economy.....all options are useless.....
so only option is to improve your economy....if you start business with India and increase the trade....possibility of war will reduce automatically.

That why China India or China Japan will never fight a war because that will hurt their mutual trade and economy....which nobody wants in current scenario........

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Options are there but money could be a hurdle....without good economy.....all options are useless.....
so only option is to improve your economy....if you start business with India and increase the trade....possibility of war will reduce automatically.

That why China India or China Japan will never fight a war because that will hurt their mutual trade and economy....which nobody wants in current scenario........

Pakistan economy is improving by 2017 it would be some where around $ 40Billion reserves.

Do you still think it would not be possible to have a 5th gen by that time?

 

[Matrixx]

Pakistan economy is improving by 2017 it would be some where around $ 40Billion reserves.

Do you still think it would not be possible to have a 5th gen by that time?

Even if I believe your statement....you would spend most of reserve on 5th gen and bring your economy to near to zero reserve....wow

 

[Deltaviper]

So you now 6-2 is LOL for you..... when just a while back you said they are comparable

BTW Pakistan has F-16 block 52..... and eventually it will be 144 Rafales vs 85 odd F-16....

Even if this ratio holds fast see what that means....

Hi, if you read more about the same exercise, you'd know that it was Block 25 and NOT 52. the french poster had gotten that info wrong... so, basically rafael had a 3:1 ratio against block 25, I think it would be toasted against block 52!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Even if I believe your statement....you would spend most of reserve on 5th gen and bring your economy to near to zero reserve....wow

The deal would not be for more than $20 - 25 billion and it will be payable in lets say 5 or 10 yrs from the day Pakistan enters into joint venture. Even if we take the higher amount $25 bil in 5 years it is still $5 bil per year which is highly attainable.

If you are able to go trough the maths of your RAFALE's it is also not costing much over time. However because India opted for 126 at the time the tender was announced it added up to the $18 bil price tag which later on became $22 billion. Now the impact of this amount was such that many started questioning if it is a good offer. Today India faces an other issue they are going to pay the amount in a lesser time frame than the initial one. The reason is now India is desperate in replacing older aircraft where as first this was not a prime concern as those aircraft had enough hours remaining to easily continue if there are any delays.

 

[Matrixx]

The deal would not be for more than $20 - 25 billion and it will be payable in lets say 5 or 10 yrs from the day Pakistan enters into joint venture. Even if we take the higher amount $25 bil in 5 years it is still $5 bil per year which is highly attainable.

If you are able to go trough the maths of your RAFALE's it is also not costing much over time. However because India opted for 126 at the time the tender was announced it added up to the $18 bil price tag which later on became $22 billion. Now the impact of this amount was such that many started questioning if it is a good offer. Today India faces an other issue they are going to pay the amount in a lesser time frame than the initial one. The reason is now India is desperate in replacing older aircraft where as first this was not a prime concern as those aircraft had enough hours remaining to easily continue if there are any delays.

India is not buying Rafale from Reserve (around $340 B) ....buying from defence budget money

 

[MilSpec]

Pakisyan has never done so and will never be that stupid. However to sit quietly and not do anything is suicide. We need to maintain a credible defence against your acquisitions. Realistically the only options are either more bl.52s or wait for J31s while building JFT more. J11Bs are not going to cut it for this purpose and we will hurt our fledgeling relationship with Russia as well. The other more tasty offering if the red bear plays ball with us would be SU35s. A couple of squadrons would revert the scales for the next 5 to 10 yrs. However the most realistic option would be J31 or a similar iteration. The question to ask is what would be the most favourable long term answer to the problem. Response from PAF would depend on the finances, and availability options from the Chinese and what the US response to the request would be. In either case the contract is not yet signed and even after signature of the contract there would be a lag period so we do have time although the options should be sorted with a plan B and C.
Araz

Is there really any need to counter 2 sqdns of af 4.5th gen which will come four years down the line, when there are 14-17 MKI's being built every year and another 37 Mig29UPG's being added to the Navy.

What about ramping up the JF17 production line?