OBL raid: US raid team member claims Chinook resupply helicopter evaded attack by PAF F-16

[RIP Pak LAW]

If that is the case than it is more likely that PAF who shot down one of American helicopter. How many US seals were killed in that downed helicopter ?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

The story changed at the last moment when the Obama administration panicked as the chopper crashed. To get ahead of it they threw Kayani under the bus.

And thus making all of us look like spineless, clueless, incompetents. And simultaneously harbouring the world’s most wanted terrorist.

A big kudos to the army leadership who oversaw this national embarrassment, you perhaps could not have done worse if you tried.

Can u explain a bit further?

 

[dbc]

Not sure what OP's point is, all special operators Chinooks are equipped with AN/ALQ-162 shadowbox jammers.
So the story about denying a lock-on to pursing PAF fighters is very plausible. But it just proves that PAF attempted to lock on to the Chinook three times it does not prove that PAF had any intention to destroy the Chinook.

You cannot prove intent because the PAF attempted radar lock.

Not sure why OP is rehashing an old story?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Can u explain a bit further?

Listen to Seymour Hersh’s version of the OBL raid, it’s more or less the actual story. I’ve heard it spilled from another credible source in an different discussion.

We had OBL for years, when Yousaf Raza Gillani said eluded to this as early as late 2011, using veiled words because criticising the army openly is hard to do, he was called a traitor, in fact he’s just reporting the matter as it is known by some.

Eventually US found out and approached the true authority in Pakistan (army leadership and COAS directly). I can’t be sure what was said or how, I didn’t hear this part, eventual plan was to allow the US to execute him unceremoniously. Likely no-one in government had a clue about any of this beforehand.

They had a plan for how to play this, Hersh claims that he’d be killed, and later it would be announced, perhaps jointly that he died in a drone strike. Confirmed by HUMINT etc.

Chopper crash and story crashed with it, Obama came out with hastily drew up statement and made it sound like they came in without us knowing etc.

Army had no ability to present the truth, it would paint them as terrorist harbour and duplicitous. And of course why in a supposed “democracy” would our army be allowed to conduct their own affairs with no government oversight?

Civilian leadership had no clue, and had no response.

So, we were made to look like fools, powerless and terrorist harbourers at the same time. Again, big kudos to those involved, you achieved the unthinkable, literally!

 

[LeGenD]

Or the permission to kill chinhook never came from Ground Control. IF F-16 was close enough to kill him, it meant he had a lock on helicopter.

Perhaps, but WE are talking about American warmachine here. They know virtually everything about the art of conventional warfare and technologies in use worldwide.

Opening salvo in the Persian Gulf War (1991) came from helicopters with LO treatments and powerful EW capabilities: https://www.airforcemag.com/article/1091apache/

"At ten seconds before 2:38 in a moonless sky over Iraq, eight US AH-64 Apache helicopters zeroed in on their targets. On their forward-looking infrared screens appeared the images of two Iraqi radar sites just north of Saudi Arabia, placed there to detect intruding fighters. They were linked to four Iraqi fighter bases and to the Intelligence Operations Center in Baghdad.

The unseen Apaches hovered low, four miles south of the radars. At the controls of Number 976, 1st Lt. Tom Drew broke radio silence. “Party in ten,” he said. On cue, ten seconds later, the helicopters unleashed a salvo of laser-guided Hellfire missiles. “This one’s for you, Saddam ,” muttered CW03 Dave Jones, the pilot of another Apache.

The shots, fired in the predawn hours of January 17, 1991, marked the start of Operation Desert Storm and were among the most critical of the war, blinding Iraq’s early warning net at a key moment. US Central Command relied entirely on the Apaches and USAF special operations helicopters to do the job. “If something had happened and we didn’t do 100 percent [destruction],” said one gunner, CW04 Lou Hall, “a lot of people were going to get hurt.”

The Apaches did achieve 100 percent destruction, or close to it. Eyewitnesses report that, when the Hellfires hit the targets, the radar bases evaporated in clouds of smoke and flame. In the four and a half minutes it took to complete the task, the Apaches had, in the words of Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, “plucked out the eyes” of Iraq’s Soviet-supplied air defenses.

Nearly 100 allied planes, arriving twenty-two minutes after the raid, roared through the gaping hole in Iraq’s network and raced north to strike critical, first-night targets. Air Force F-117s, relying on their stealthiness, already had penetrated Iraqi airspace and were nearing Baghdad by the time the Apaches fired, but destruction of the early warning sites greatly eased the task of nonstealthy allied planes sent into action that night."

--- --- ---

Many people have a low opinion of helicopters (and mistakenly so). Some of the helicopters are designed for infiltration roles from scratch and so advanced that they are more expensive than F-35 combat aircraft. Imagine this.

There are limitations of radar systems near the surface due to ground clutter. And inflitration is carried out in silence in cover of darkness with enabling technologies in the mix, not with chants of Allah-o-Akbar.

Iraqi AA/AD network encompassed 500 radar systems in total in 1991 and Task Force Normandy still found a way to create a coverage gap in them.

Electronic Warfare spectrum is vast in its scope and scale. It is absolutely possible to prevent missiles from releasing.

India doesn't hold a candle to US in Electronic Warfare spectrum and otherwise. Let us not delude ourselves here.

 

[Pak-Canuck]

So heli manages to evade PAF pilots and F-16's but blows up by itself after killing Osama and then they decide to bury Osama the next day without showing his face to anyone (even though they did the same thing with Saddam's sons) and that too into the sea according to some Islamic tradition that no muslim in this world has ever heard of so that his body can never be found or tested to see if it was real. Makes sense.

 

[LeGenD]

So heli manages to evade PAF pilots and F-16's but blows up by itself after killing Osama and then they decide to bury Osama the next day without showing his face to anyone (even though they did the same thing with Saddam's sons) and that too into the sea according to some Islamic tradition that no one in this world has heard of so that his body can never be found or tested to see if it was real. Makes sense.

PAF jets were in search of these helicopters (after) they had left Abbottabad. Study the chain-of-events first.

And refer back to post # 35 above. Do not understimate helicopter technologies in the role of infiltration, particularly American. Pakistan isn't the first country to have its defenses breached in this manner.

 

[litman]

So heli manages to evade PAF pilots and F-16's but blows up by itself after killing Osama and then they decide to bury Osama the next day without showing his face to anyone (even though they did the same thing with Saddam's sons) and that too into the sea according to some Islamic tradition that no one in this world has heard of so that his body can never be found or tested to see if it was real. Makes sense.

for many of the people who take the words from americans as the words from their god whatever you mentioned was 100% true and they will never ask for any evidence. they will admit whatever they are told by americans.

the response from the pak military and government was simply pathetic during the incident and after the incident. shame on them for their miserable performance at that time. the musharraff and later on the zardari-kayani era were the darkest periods for pak in recent history.

 

[LeGenD]

for many of the people who take the words from americans as the words from their god whatever you mentioned was 100% true and they will never ask for any evidence. they will admit whatever they are told by americans.

1. US is nobody's God, but it is a technological juggernaut.

2. You are not privy to top secrets of conventional warfare. If you had bothered to study even history of conventional warfare, you would have known better.

3. Pakistani defenses are not infallible. Not even close.

4. Journalists know jack shit about top secret military operations. There books are as valuable as mud in the streets.

 

[litman]

1. US is nobody's God
2. You are not privy to top secrets of conventional warfare.
3. Pakistani defenses are not infallible.

ask our elite and you will come to know what US is for them. it was a world class humiliation for pakistan and that's not a secret. if pakistanis cant shoot down a couple of helis that reached abbotabad from west and hovered over a major military set up then it clearly points out that it was not the matter of defense capability but the lack of will. please dont act like a pml n supporter who tend to defend every mistake of their leaders. abbotabad incident was simply a shameful chapter in our history like 71. this is a bitter reality.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The USA has got OBL, Pak has got Afganistan via the Taliban...

Not a bad deal in my books....

 

[LeGenD]

ask our elite and you will come to know what US is for them. it was a world class humiliation for pakistan and that's not a secret. if pakistanis cant shoot down a couple of helis that reached abbotabad from west and hovered over a major military set up then it clearly points out that it was not the matter of defense capability but the lack of will. please dont act like a pml n supporter who tend to defend every mistake of their leaders. abbotabad incident was simply a shameful chapter in our history like 71. this is a bitter reality.

Bro,

It is glaringly apparent from comments in this thread that how many lack in judgement and how many clueless people out there. Many do not even understand the chain-of-events of the raid properly. Many do not even trust Pakistan's own report on the matter. Shame.

The technical capability of PAF in shooting down a helicopter is not in question here. Of-course, any visible and vulnerable helicopter can be shot down.

However, helicopters vastly differ from each other in intended roles and technologies onboard, and HOW they are to be utilized. Refer back to details in this post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/osam...-paf-f-16-3-times.657334/page-3#post-12154909

There is no comparison between USA and India in the matters of defense. They can/will humilitate India in conventional warfare as well.

 

[Gangetic]

Collaborating with the Americans was the worst thing for Pak.
The Americans can easily buy Pak generals + politicans for a few million $.

We need to educate young Pakistanis about greedy, dishonest and degenerate Americans.

 

[LeGenD]

The USA has got OBL, Pak has got Afganistan via the Taliban...

Not a bad deal in my books....

Now here is the wise man.

 

[litman]

Bro,

It is glaringly apparent from comments in this thread that how many lack in judgement and how many clueless people out there. Many do not even understand the chain-of-events of the raid properly. Many do not even trust Pakistan's own report on the matter. Shame.

The technical capability of PAF in shooting down a helicopter is not in question here. Of-course, any visible and vulnerable helicopter can be shot down.

However, helicopters vastly differ from each other in intended roles and technologies onboard. Refer to details in this post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/osam...-paf-f-16-3-times.657334/page-3#post-12154909

There is no comparison between USA and India in the matters of defense. They can/will humilitate India in conventional warfare as well.

i didnt mention about the capability of our military. i only talked about the lack of will by the decision makers. if those F-16 would have given clearance by our decision makers to bring the helis down i am sure they would have done it with ease but a final order should have been there by someone which was not there.