OBL raid: US raid team member claims Chinook resupply helicopter evaded attack by PAF F-16

[crankthatskunk]

Sir,

I am not questioning your personal credentials (or that of anybody). However, how many are privy to American Military Industrial Complex and classified American military projects? What WE understand at a personal level, will never be enough.

There are no loopholes in American accounts (Governmental + Military); ignoring journalist spins to it. Pakistan's own Abbottabad Commission Report have similar findings - consistent with American accounts (Governmental + Military) but it also digs much deeper into Pakistani context, issues, and limitations in relation.

Our own are unfortunately giving unusual spins to the event without even bothering to study what happened - many do not know which sources to consider in this. They are being misled by journalist accounts and word-of-mouth narratives. I can provide you links of content which should be studied.

Every helicopter they used in this operation was designed to evade radar detection (and more). If somebody saw one, how the hell he would know? Human senses do not function in the Electronic Warfare spectrum (just visual).

And I am sure that not many people are trotting out there in country terrain in midnight, so do not bother with these claims. There weren't many eye-witnesses to movements of American helicopters until two of them reached the suspect Abbottabad compound and American special forces commenced their activities (exchange of fire and explosions in the compound). The first one crashed in the compound due to:

"Many of the basics of the operation are well established at this point. Famously, two heavily modified stealthy Black Hawk helicopters were first to arrive at the compound and inserted the main raiding force. One of these helicopters subsequently crashed after experiencing a condition known as vortex ring state. Englen says the ambient temperature was hotter than expected, which can also impact a helicopter's available lift, and the stealth Black Hawk had more fuel and personnel on board than initially planned, all contributing to the accident." - JOSEPH TREVITHICK

Now, nobody is expecting a foreign military to be operating so deep inside Pakistan. Those who saw something would be thinking - Pakistan Army is up to something. At most, Police will show up due to sounds of explosions and such.

Military movements are contingent on what radar systems are telling them. If radar systems are not telling them much and they are alerted to unsual activity, they will dispatch a team to investigate the relevant hotspot. However, do you think that Americans were waiting for Pakistani responders to the scene and take selfies with them? They were supposed to do their job and get out ASAP. The massive explosion in the compound (people continue to allude to) was about 40 minutes into operation [Americans blew up the fallen helicopter] and boarded the remaining article to leave. It was this blast that drew far more attention but it will take some time for security forces to do something about it.

Two PAF jets were eventually scrambled to search for suspect helicopters (now 3 in total) and two of these reached Afghanistan without much difficulty. The account in question in this discourse is of the helicopter which had a close call with one of the PAF F-16s while attempting to reach Afghanistan. And the pilot have blurted out that EW is a thing and it makes difference.

Scores of members have issued juvenile responses in relation. This show how many are privy to the event in question (almost NIL), and I am surprised at a general lack of understanding of how military works. Only one member @Socra (very intelligent guy) was willing to look at things through scientific lens. I am surprised, and I am not even in the army (just tech-savvy to a limited extent via my own IT literacy). Mujhay samaj aa gai baat leikin mujh sey ziada samajdaar logg kuyun nahin samaj pai.

So this thread in itself show HOW much the nation understand this matter, and WHY we were unable to stop Americans deep inside. WE are like helicopter yeh helicopter woh - they suck. Sorry brother, expect many more surprises in the future with this kind of mentality (God forbid). I rest my case, brother.

EDIT: WE need to learn to look at things through scientific lens on a national level, and NOT through political lens like always which is an unfortunate habit of ours. I will expand on this part soon to the benefit of all. This is very important consideration.

I am sorry i am not going to read such long narrations, when a very simple hurdle cannot be passed by anyone in the world who have mastery of USA's weapons and technologies. I am sure, Star Wars to weaponisation of space, from the energy weapons to laser, they know it all. We are just try to learn basics here.

But the problem is very simple one, not technical at all.

Specifications (UH-60M)

Data from Encyclopedia of Modern Warplanes, International Directory, Black Hawk

General characteristics

• Crew: 2 flight crew + 2 loadmaster/gunners
• Capacity: 2,640 lb (1,200 kg) of cargo internally, including 11 troops or 6 stretchers

1- One went down, how the seals from the "destroyed" helicopter boarded the remaining one!! Look at the capacity of the helicopter.

2- The destroyed helicopter's pieces flew far and wide,

So how the seals survived the "destroyed" helicopter!!

No technological advantage can over come these two problems. Good luck in finding an answer.

 

[LeGenD]

I am sorry i am not going to read such long narrations, when a very simple hurdle cannot be passed by anyone in the world who have mastery of USA's weapons and technologies. I am sure, Star Wars to weaponisation of space, from the energy weapons to laser, they know it all. We are just try to learn basics here.

But the problem is very simple one, not technical at all.

Specifications (UH-60M)

Data from Encyclopedia of Modern Warplanes, International Directory, Black Hawk

General characteristics

• Crew: 2 flight crew + 2 loadmaster/gunners
• Capacity: 2,640 lb (1,200 kg) of cargo internally, including 11 troops or 6 stretchers

1- One went down, how the seals from the "destroyed" helicopter boarded the remaining one!! Look at the capacity of the helicopter.

2- The destroyed helicopter's pieces flew far and wide,

So how the seals survived the "destroyed" helicopter!!

No technological advantage can over come these two problems. Good luck in finding an answer.

This was easy.

Operation Neptune Spear begins on May 2, 2011.
The actual mission, dubbed Operation Neptune Spear, officially started in the early-morning hours of May 2, Pakistan time (afternoon of May 1, Eastern Daylight Time).

May 1 (EDT)
1:25 p.m. – President Obama, along with other top officials, formally approve the execution of Operation Neptune Spear.
1:51 p.m. – Stealth Black Hawk helicopters take off from Afghanistan, carrying a group of 25 Navy SEALs.
3:30 p.m. – The choppers land on the compound in Abbottabad. One helicopter crashes, but there are no injuries. The mission continues, uninterrupted.
3:39 p.m. – Osama bin Laden is located on the third floor of the compound and is shot in the head, above the left eye.
Sometime during the operation, three other men (including one of bin Laden’s sons) and a woman in the compound are also killed.
3:53 p.m. – President Obama receives preliminary word that bin Laden is identified and dead.
3:55 p.m. – SEAL team members move bin Laden’s body to the first floor of the compound and place it in a body bag.
3:39 p.m.-4:10 p.m. – The team locates and retrieves multiple items from the compound for intelligence investigation.
4:05 p.m. – The first helicopter exits the compound.
4:08 p.m. – The team destroys the chopper that crashed.
4:10 p.m. – A backup helicopter scoops up remaining team members and leaves the area.
5:53 p.m. – The choppers with SEAL team members return to Afghanistan.
7:01 p.m. – President Obama receives further intelligence information that the body killed in the raid is likely that of bin Laden.
11:35 p.m. – President Obama addresses the nation about the raid.
12:59 a.m. – Osama bin Laden’s body is buried at sea within 24 hours to comply with Islamic law.

Link: https://www.history.com/news/osama-bin-laden-death-seal-team-six

 

[crankthatskunk]

This was easy.

Operation Neptune Spear begins on May 2, 2011.
The actual mission, dubbed Operation Neptune Spear, officially started in the early-morning hours of May 2, Pakistan time (afternoon of May 1, Eastern Daylight Time).

May 1 (EDT)
1:25 p.m. – President Obama, along with other top officials, formally approve the execution of Operation Neptune Spear.
1:51 p.m. – Stealth Black Hawk helicopters take off from Afghanistan, carrying a group of 25 Navy SEALs.
3:30 p.m. – The choppers land on the compound in Abbottabad. One helicopter crashes, but there are no injuries. The mission continues, uninterrupted.
3:39 p.m. – Osama bin Laden is located on the third floor of the compound and is shot in the head, above the left eye.
Sometime during the operation, three other men (including one of bin Laden’s sons) and a woman in the compound are also killed.
3:53 p.m. – President Obama receives preliminary word that bin Laden is identified and dead.
3:55 p.m. – SEAL team members move bin Laden’s body to the first floor of the compound and place it in a body bag.
3:39 p.m.-4:10 p.m. – The team locates and retrieves multiple items from the compound for intelligence investigation.
4:05 p.m. – The first helicopter exits the compound.
4:08 p.m. – The team destroys the chopper that crashed.
4:10 p.m. – A backup helicopter scoops up remaining team members and leaves the area.
5:53 p.m. – The choppers with SEAL team members return to Afghanistan.
7:01 p.m. – President Obama receives further intelligence information that the body killed in the raid is likely that of bin Laden.
11:35 p.m. – President Obama addresses the nation about the raid.
12:59 a.m. – Osama bin Laden’s body is buried at sea within 24 hours to comply with Islamic law.

Link: https://www.history.com/news/osama-bin-laden-death-seal-team-six

Which backup helicopter was that!!
Do you have any evidence to support that another helicopter entered Abbotabad!!
Have you seen the "Destroyed helicopter's pictures in the compound!! The walls and ground all around was black, and the pieces of the helicopter went over a Km radius. Some destruction it was.
Also remember, the backups were "Chinooks". And if you know Chinooks they would wake up the whole neighbourhood, like they did in Kala Dacca. Read and listen to the witnesses testimony if you can find any videos of the interviews still allowed on Youtube.

Secondly, what you are doing is that increasing the humiliation for PA that despite the news outlets knowing that the raid is underway, they allowed this operation to lasted for over an hour without response. And PAF for over two hours if you take in to account the helicopters leaving Pakistan's airspace.

Come on mate, don't accept whatever is given to you.
Open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than toeing a certain narrative.

@MastanKhan , if Kiyani and Zardari were not overboard, this mission was as successful as the rescue mission in Iran.
We all know what happened in Iran few decades ago.

 

[The Eagle]

I really wish that so-called genius had not forgot that be it Viper or any other Air Craft; they do carry gun & nice rounds to put it through especially when Choppers aren't breaking the sound barrier. Initially, we were not allowed to shoot down then came the argument that Vipers were launched but late and now this kind of fiction. Well, it did satisfy some confused souls but in reality, forgot that PAF has other assets as well and so the possibility of gunning it down. There was no permission to shoot and nobody can confirm whether locks were intended to shoot down or part of tactics. Mountain terrain, ground clutter and what exactly the Chopper pilot didn't know is that there was no permission to shoot in first place or the matter was already decided in top corridors while he is still enjoying the notion of only electronic warfare. Yes, the US has the superior tech & professionals trained hard but on other hand; things can be changed in reality or the factors of compromised leadership shall not be ignored.

However, on serious note; one has to settle something like the beating in broad daylight through more of contradictory & fiction work like this. The situation is like what if beaten Black & Blue; once upon a time there is a story to satisfy the grieving souls. When it came to shoot in real time & intention to take down the opponent; Operation Swift Retort will be always referred.

 

[truthfollower]

I really wish that so-called genius had not forgot that be it Viper or any other Air Craft; they do carry gun & nice rounds to put it through especially when Choppers aren't breaking the sound barrier. Initially, we were not allowed to shoot down then came the argument that Vipers were launched but late and now this kind of fiction. Well, it did satisfy some confused souls but in reality, forgot that PAF has other assets as well and so the possibility of gunning it down. There was no permission to shoot and nobody can confirm whether locks were intended to shoot down or part of tactics. Mountain terrain, ground clutter and what exactly the Chopper pilot didn't know is that there was no permission to shoot in first place or the matter was already decided in top corridors while he is still enjoying the notion of only electronic warfare. Yes, the US has the superior tech & professionals trained hard but on other hand; things can be changed in reality or the factors of compromised leadership shall not be ignored.

However, on serious note; one has to settle something like the beating in broad daylight through more of contradictory & fiction work like this. The situation is like what if beaten Black & Blue; once upon a time there is a story to satisfy the grieving souls. When it came to shoot in real time & intention to take down the opponent; Operation Swift Retort will be always referred.

good our top leadership has some sense and didn't put entire country on risk for terrorists.

 

[LeGenD]

@crankthatskunk

There are two perspectives to consider in this matter (POLITICAL and TECHNOLOGICAL).

POLITICAL

I am not convinced that Pakistan Army, or any Pakistani agency, is complicit in this operation by Americans (i.e. Operation Neptune Spear). The Americans bear sole responsibility for embarrassing Pakistan in this matter. The one individual who was found to be complicit in this matter is in jail (i.e. Dr. Shakil Afridi); his punishment would be utterly pointless otherwise.

Pakistani establishment will never accommodate a foreign power to this extent and fashion in any operation. Pakistani establishment never gave permission to US to operate over Pakistani airspace unchecked, a LINE was/is drawn in this matter and US is supposed to respect Pakistan's sovereignty. Pakistani establishment would not want India (and to a lesser extent, Iran) to feel emboldened by such accommodations and attempt their own transgresses which each have anyways.

But being a 'superpower' makes ONE arrogant and bold by virtue of having qualitative and quantitative supremacy over its subjects - Pakistan isn't the first country to have its airspace violated by Americans and won't be the last - Americans have a history of violating airspace of multiple countries including Iran and DPRK. American surveillance capabilities and infiltration techniques almost border science fiction in terms of capabilities - few people understand the breath of these capabilities even on an academic level let alone on an intimate level. I am just being realistic here.

TECHNOLOGICAL

Narrowing down the focus:

Which backup helicopter was that!!
Do you have any evidence to support that another helicopter entered Abbotabad!!
Have you seen the "Destroyed helicopter's pictures in the compound!! The walls and ground all around was black, and the pieces of the helicopter went over a Km radius. Some destruction it was.
Also remember, the backups were "Chinooks". And if you know Chinooks they would wake up the whole neighbourhood, like they did in Kala Dacca. Read and listen to the witnesses testimony if you can find any videos of the interviews still allowed on Youtube.

Refer back to this post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/obl-...ttack-by-paf-f-16.657334/page-5#post-12155081

- to understand that these were not ordinary Chinooks.

[1] Some information about the movements of helicopters inside Pakistan

The third and fourth Chinooks were each outfitted with a pair of M134 Miniguns. They followed the Black Hawks' initial flight path but landed at a predetermined point on a dry riverbed in a wide, unpopulated valley in northwest Pakistan. The nearest house was half a mile away. On the ground, the copters' rotors were kept whirring while operatives monitored the surrounding hills for encroaching Pakistani helicopters or fighter jets. One of the Chinooks was carrying fuel bladders, in case the other aircraft needed to refill their tanks.

Meanwhile, the two Black Hawks were quickly approaching Abbottabad from the northwest, hiding behind the mountains on the northernmost edge of the city. Then the pilots banked right and went south along a ridge that marks Abbottabad's eastern perimeter. When those hills tapered off, the pilots curled right again, toward the city center, and made their final approach.

[2] The crash

During the next four minutes, the interior of the Black Hawks rustled alive with the metallic cough of rounds being chambered. Mark, a master chief petty officer and the ranking noncommissioned officer on the operation, crouched on one knee beside the open door of the lead helicopter. He and the eleven other SEALs on "helo one," who were wearing gloves and had on night-vision goggles, were preparing to fast-rope into bin Laden's yard. They waited for the crew chief to give the signal to throw the rope. But, as the pilot passed over the compound, pulled into a high hover, and began lowering the aircraft, he felt the Black Hawk getting away from him. He sensed that they were going to crash.

When the helicopter began getting away from the pilot, he pulled back on the cyclic, which controls the pitch of the rotor blades, only to find the aircraft unresponsive. The high walls of the compound and the warm temperatures had caused the Black Hawk to descend inside its own rotor wash—a hazardous aerodynamic situation known as "settling with power." In North Carolina, this potential problem had not become apparent, because the chain-link fencing used in rehearsals had allowed air to flow freely. A former helicopter pilot with extensive special-operations experience said of the pilot’s situation, "It's pretty spooky—I've been in it myself. The only way to get out of it is to push the cyclic forward and fly out of this vertical silo you're dropping through. That solution requires altitude. If you're settling with power at two thousand feet, you’ve got plenty of time to recover. If you’re settling with power at fifty feet, you’re going to hit the ground."

The pilot scrapped the plan to fast-rope and focussed on getting the aircraft down. He aimed for an animal pen in the western section of the compound. The SEALs on board braced themselves as the tail rotor swung around, scraping the security wall. The pilot jammed the nose forward to drive it into the dirt and prevent his aircraft from rolling onto its side. Cows, chickens, and rabbits scurried. With the Black Hawk pitched at a forty-five-degree angle astride the wall, the crew sent a distress call to the idling Chinooks.

James and the SEALs in helo two watched all this while hovering over the compound's northeast corner. The second pilot, unsure whether his colleagues were taking fire or experiencing mechanical problems, ditched his plan to hover over the roof. Instead, he landed in a grassy field across the street from the house.

[3] The crashed helicopter is destroyed by Americans moments before departure from Abbottabad

When the rescue Chinook eventually arrived, a medic stepped out and knelt over the corpse. He injected a needle into bin Laden's body and extracted two bone-marrow samples. More DNA was taken with swabs. One of the bone-marrow samples went into the Black Hawk. The other went into the Chinook, along with bin Laden's body. Next, the SEALs needed to destroy the damaged Black Hawk. The pilot, armed with a hammer that he kept for such situations, smashed the instrument panel, the radio, and the other classified fixtures inside the cockpit. Then the demolition unit took over. They placed explosives near the avionics system, the communications gear, the engine, and the rotor head. "You're not going to hide the fact that it's a helicopter,” the special-operations officer said. “But you want to make it unusable.” The SEALs placed extra C-4 charges under the carriage, rolled thermite grenades inside the copter’s body, and then backed up.

Helo one burst into flames while the demolition team boarded the Chinook. The women and children, who were being left behind for the Pakistani authorities, looked puzzled, scared, and shocked as they watched the SEALs board the helicopters. Amal, bin Laden's wife, continued her harangue. Then, as a giant fire burned inside the compound walls, the Americans flew away.

[1][2][3] taken from the following comprehensive account: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/08/08/getting-bin-laden

Secondly, what you are doing is that increasing the humiliation for PA that despite the news outlets knowing that the raid is underway, they allowed this operation to lasted for over an hour without response. And PAF for over two hours if you take in to account the helicopters leaving Pakistan's airspace.

Come on mate, don't accept whatever is given to you.
Open your eyes and look at the evidence rather than toeing a certain narrative.

Sir,

WE are having this conversation with information accessible in the Public domain (for FREE). I am sure that many have studied relevant content by now. Even if this discussion is censored on PDF, can WE fool rest of the world? WE would be creating an echo-chamber for ourselves instead. PDF management have absolute control of this domain; I cannot do anything here without their cooperation.

INTENT behind this discourse is NOT to embarrass any Pakistani institution. I am rather giving Pakistan security forces the benefit of doubt in this saga. My position is very clear: WE should not accuse Kiyani, Pasha, or any other officer for being complicit in this matter in the absence of solid evidence. Hersh's account is actually damaging to Pakistan's image in retrospect. This is a solid case of American excesses inside Pakistan but WE completely failed to get the memo; many in Pakistan were too busy accusing each other and politicizing this matter as usual. To the credit of Kiyani - South Waziristan was combed under his watch. Dr. Shakil Afridi is a well-known facilitator in personal capacity. Additional lesser known facilitators are:

Haqqani precisely wrote, "Friends I made from the Obama campaign were able to ask, three years later, as National Security Council officials, for help in stationing U.S. Special Operations and intelligence personnel on the ground in Pakistan. I brought the request directly to Pakistan’s civilian leaders, who approved. Although the United States kept us officially out of the loop about the operation, these locally stationed Americans proved invaluable when Obama decided to send in Navy SEAL Team 6 without notifying Pakistan."

Link: https://www.geo.tv/latest/140225-Ab...t-made-public-over-national-security-concerns

Coming back to the military operation in question:-

Pakistani news outlets had no clue what was happening at the time.

Aside from one IT consultant who unwittingly live-tweeted the bin Laden raid, reports from Pakistani sources of a crashed helicopter were the first evidence that something was going down in Abbottabad. "According to eyewitnesses, a low-flying helicopter crashed in a populated area, and as a result two houses were engulfed in flames,” a Pakistani news service reported.

One local news agency claimed the downed bird was Pakistani. It wasn't until several hours later that U.S. government sources clarified the initial stories. "We lost one helicopter due to mechanical failure," a senior U.S. official said. "The aircraft was destroyed by the crew, and the assault force and crew members boarded the remaining aircraft to exit the compound."

Link: https://www.wired.com/2011/05/aviation-geeks-scramble-to-i-d-osama-raids-mystery-copter/

I am giving Pakistani security forces the benefit of doubt in this matter in good faith to say the least. I am not the one who is alleging complicity of the former COAS Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and former ISI directorate Ahmad Shuja Pasha in this matter. American journalist Seymour Hersh is responsible for spreading these rumors in his book, and his sources of information are dubious and unreliable. Even Husain Haqqani (Pakistan's ambassador to USA under the tenure of PPP-led GOP) dismissed Hersh's account: https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/13/what-pakistan-knew-about-the-bin-laden-raid-seymour-hersh/

Solid rebuttal to Hersh's account in this link: https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

Major General Asif Ghafoor also commented on this matter in 2019: https://fp.brecorder.com/2019/09/20190905515518/

"In search of Osama bin Laden, it was Pakistan which traced the first call and shared a detailed intelligence with the US as the first lead to trace his [OBL] location. Instead of a joint operation, the US resorted to a unilateral operation and ditched Pakistan."

Following is a DECLASSIFIED press briefing of American administration: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...inistration-officials-killing-osama-bin-laden

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We shared our intelligence on this bin Laden compound with no other country, including Pakistan. That was for one reason and one reason alone: We believed it was essential to the security of the operation and our personnel. In fact, only a very small group of people inside our own government knew of this operation in advance.

Shortly after the raid, U.S. officials contacted senior Pakistani leaders to brief them on the intent and the results of the raid. We have also contacted a number of our close allies and partners throughout the world.

Sine 9/11, the United States has made it clear to Pakistan that we would pursue bin Laden wherever he might be. Pakistan has long understood that we are at war with al Qaeda. The United States had a legal and moral obligation to act on the information it had.

And let me emphasize that great care was taken to ensure operational success, minimize the possibility of non-combatant casualties, and to adhere to American and international law in carrying out the mission.

---

It does not make sense to consider using radar-evading stealthy articles in a FACILITATED raid. Why not consider using standard articles in this scenario? If something goes wrong, loss of a standard article is acceptable.

FYI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...shed-u-s-stealth-copter-idUSTRE77D2BT20110814

I am absolutely sure that the Chinese weren't considered in this alleged agreement between US and Pakistan. The Chinese are not allowed to inspect F-16s up close let alone these type of articles.

Those radar-evading stealthy articles are off-limits to much of the world including friendly countries from inspection. You do not understand this.

I am, however, willing to consider the possibility, that if one of the helicopters was indeed spotted and locked upon by one of the PAF F-16s, might not have gotten clearance.

@MastanKhan , if Kiyani and Zardari were not overboard, this mission was as successful as the rescue mission in Iran.
We all know what happened in Iran few decades ago.

Do you always recall FAILURES in history? What about SUCCESS STORIES?

In Iraq: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/obl-...ttack-by-paf-f-16.657334/page-3#post-12154909

In Syria: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/book-reveals-new-details-about-stealth-black-hawks-used-1734205517

Things are in motion and technologies are improving over time. Tactics are also refined over time.

Pakistan have its share of successes and failures in its conflicts much like other countries. Why do WE shy away from having a meaningful discourse on our failures? Do they make us less of a nation? This is an enforced cultural deficiency, and I am not sure how this is helpful to the society at large. WE are being groomed to have unrealistic expectations from our armed forces and other institutions for different ends - I am not sure how this is helpful.

If WE continue to censor our failures, WE will never learn from our mistakes or draw informed conclusions from relevant discourses. Academic/Scientific discourses are invaluable pools of information to draw from and learn.

Nevertheless, this is my last response in this thread. I apologize for hurting sentiments of anybody in this discourse. This wasn't my intention.

 

[El Sidd]

bin Laden died in Afghanistan after contracting Covid01 in late December 2001.

An obituary was circulated by all media outlets where pneumonia was cited as cause of death.

Rest is just propaganda

 

[crankthatskunk]

@crankthatskunk

There are two perspectives to consider in this matter (POLITICAL and TECHNOLOGICAL).

"You're not going to hide the fact that it's a helicopter,” the special-operations officer said. “But you want to make it unusable.” The SEALs placed extra C-4 charges under the carriage, rolled thermite grenades inside the copter’s body, and then backed up.

Helo one burst into flames while the demolition team boarded the Chinook.

I have ignored the long article and picked up two sentences which were of any use to the discussion we are having @MastanKhan .

Now that this article mentions they destroyed the damaged helicopter. I once again request you to find the pictures of inside the compound where this helicopter "crash landed" according to the Yanks. I will search and post the pictures if they are still available somewhere. You have already seen the picture children picking up the chard parts of the helicopter far from the house in the open field. I leave it to your judgement to what happened to the helicopter, if it crashed so hard that its cabin destroyed in to small pieces which were scattered all around the compound, in more than one km radius. While the fuel caught fired leaving the whole compound chard.

Secondly, show us testimony of one eye witness or any other account that Chinook ever approached "Abbotabad" scene.

You my friend have already destroyed your own thesis.

Reality like I said is far more darker for the Yanks. In the end only one outcome , they should thank Kiyani and Zardari, there is nothing more to this saga.

Recently, I needed to get in touch with someone higher up in PA for something a friend requested me to do. I made the enquiry, who can I be in contact if needed be. I was told that General Ghafoor can be contacted at a short notice. That too when he was the DG ISPR.
But those who gave me the information were regularly in touch with him. I leave it to that and move on. Thank you.

 

[LeGenD]

I have ignored the long article and picked up two sentences which were of any use to the discussion we are having @MastanKhan .

Now that this article mentions they destroyed the damaged helicopter. I once again request you to find the pictures of inside the compound where this helicopter "crash landed" according to the Yanks. I will search and post the pictures if they are still available somewhere. You have already seen the picture children picking up the chard parts of the helicopter far from the house in the open field. I leave it to your judgement to what happened to the helicopter, if it crashed so hard that its cabin destroyed in to small pieces which were scattered all around the compound, in more than one km radius. While the fuel caught fired leaving the whole compound chard.

Secondly, show us testimony of one eye witness or any other account that Chinook ever approached "Abbotabad" scene.

You my friend have already destroyed your own thesis.

Reality like I said is far more darker for the Yanks. In the end only one outcome , they should thank Kiyani and Zardari, there is nothing more to this saga.

Recently, I needed to get in touch with someone higher up in PA for something a friend requested me to do. I made the enquiry, who can I be in contact if needed be. I was told that General Ghafoor can be contacted at a short notice. That too when he was the DG ISPR.
But those who gave me the information were regularly in touch with him. I leave it to that and move on. Thank you.

Sir,

For the benefit of all members, crash spot highlighted in the following link: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyt...ere-osama-bin-laden-was-killed.html?ref=world

I do not know much else, and leave this to your better judgement. Thank you for your input.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Sir,

For the benefit of all members, crash spot highlighted in the following link: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyt...ere-osama-bin-laden-was-killed.html?ref=world

I do not know much else, and leave this to your better judgement. Thank you for your input.

My friend, please stop posting material from the net. I requested to find the pictures of the compound after the helicopter was "destroyed" as you put it. There is no better evidence to show what really happened.
And bring evidence that Chinook came to "Abbotabad" from Kalaa Dacca.

Also please explain how it was possible technically to hide huge "Chinooks" from Pakistani army and PAF!!
Remember, we are in the air within minutes if there is intrusion from India.
Also there was an interview of then Air Chief of PAF immediately after the raid. Find that interview and listen to that, it would give you more hints to what happened.

 

[Mentee]

bin Laden died in Afghanistan after contracting Covid01 in late December 2001.

An obituary was circulated by all media outlets where pneumonia was cited as cause of death.

Rest is just propaganda

Many of us know that the raid was part of Obama election campaign with pakistan being his campaign manager but we miserably failed to extract the most of it in our favor.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Sir,

For the benefit of all members, crash spot highlighted in the following link: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyt...ere-osama-bin-laden-was-killed.html?ref=world

I do not know much else, and leave this to your better judgement. Thank you for your input.

For your benefit, I give you the path of my old posts of 2011 on this subject.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-abottabad-drama.111158/page-4#post-1800616

Please see my post 59 on that page. I had the pictures of the compound, but those pictures are not available now.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

chinook or blackhawk etc were never attacked

the locals i know say
chinook actually even went to terbella landed in army base there and then flew out

 

[TsAr]

chinook or blackhawk etc were never attacked

the locals i know say
chinook actually even went to terbella landed in army base there and then flew out

Have heard the same rumors but cannot verify them. Some even said that Osama's body was being kept in Tarbella and the Chinook picked it up from there after the staged attack on Abbotabad.

 

[Raider 21]

Have heard the same rumors but cannot verify them. Some even said that Osama's body was being kept in Tarbella and the Chinook picked it up from there after the staged attack on Abbotabad.

So many rumours. There was a 3rd helo up north of Mardan. Forgetting exactly which location but it is in the No Easy Day book