No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan

[STEELMAN]

I was talking about hindus being killed for converting to other faiths and incidents of hindus forcefully converting others.
As an example.
The Observer encountered compelling evidence of the scale of the violence employed in a conversion programme apparently sanctioned by members of one of the most powerful Hindu groups in India, the 6.8-million member Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) - the World Hindu Council.

Standing in the ashes of her neighbour's house in the village of Sarangagada, Jaspina Naik, 32, spoke nervously, glancing towards a group of Hindu men watching her suspiciously. 'My neighbours said, "If you go on being Christians, we will burn your houses and your children in front of you, so make up your minds quickly",' she said. 'I was scared. Christians have no place in this area now.'http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/19/orissa-violence-india-christianity-hinduism

Am not here to make out that pakistanis are all so pure and the indians are evil but that when it comes to faith and certain things the indians accuse us of ,they should look at themselfs first.

If that lady goes to police station and lodged complaint against them, all persons involved would have charged under Indian laws. Our constitution does not support these activities.

 

[Contrarian]

Certain posts in the government are reserved for Muslims. Setting aside the question of whether that's right or wrong, the definition of a Muslim becomes necessary to enforce those laws.

Nepal was a hindu state yet never felt the nees to define who hindus are or are not.

Why not just take it in good faith if someone says they are Muslims. At the end they would still be working for the good of Pakistan.

 

[mr42O]

I have ahmadi friends from Lahore all of them are voting IK... or all of there family members since they live in Oslo. Ur propoganda will not work

 

[muse]

the real problem is to do with the justice system, depoliticizing police, procedural laws etc - all of which incentivize intolerance by letting the culprits get away. its similar to how christians are persecuted and in many cases certain sects of muslims as well.

I can't believe I am reading this from you - you seem to be saying that Pakistanis should be equal before the law -- what manner of depravity can we expect next from you AJ?

 

[Developereo]

Nepal was a hindu state yet never felt the nees to define who hindus are or are not.

Why not just take it in good faith if someone says they are Muslims. At the end they would still be working for the good of Pakistan.

If you have restrictions in law, you must define the terms. To be a Muslim means you accept certain tenets of Islam.

 

[livingdead]

the real problem is to do with the justice system, depoliticizing police, procedural laws etc - all of which incentivize intolerance by letting the culprits get away. its similar to how christians are persecuted and in many cases certain sects of muslims as well.

The real problem is they are considered heretic by most sunnis and shias there. There is simply too much opposition/hatred for them in population. You cant reduce intolerance or avoid crime against them even with best judicial system.

 

[Contrarian]

If you have restrictions in law, you must define the terms. To be a Muslim means you accept certain tenets of Islam.

I just gave an example to the contrary.

 

[muse]

The real problem is they are considered heretic by most sunnis and shias there. There is simply too much opposition/hatred for them in population. You cant reduce intolerance or avoid crime against them even with best judicial system.

Yes they are considered heretics but that's not the problem - there is no heresy law applicable - AJ is right that the real problem is that citizens are not equal before the law instead sectarian concerns predominate.

 

[Developereo]

I just gave an example to the contrary.

I don't see how. Being a "Hindu state" does not require anything from specific individuals; it's a statement of principles and culture.

However, if the law says that only a Muslim can hold a government post, then you must have a strict definition of what is a Muslim. Otherwise, the law is incompletely defined.

 

[Dubious]

Indians please listen up....From reading your posts I realize 1 thing...You do not have a clue about Islam...The 1st and most important thing in Islam is the shahadat which says


I bear witness there is NO GOD but ALLAH AND Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH...

Now BOTH conditions should be be met...


Not God but ALLAH and Muhammad his final msgr!

Now if someone goes around claiming a new Prophet and whatnot is going against the 1st condition to be a Muslim! So, what are they crying about? Its like you commit murder and say you are innocent EVEN AFTER ADMITTING TO THE MURDER!

Doesnt make sense AT ALL!

 

[Kompromat]

Ahamdi propagenda machine is at work again. Do you 'gentlemen' know that this so called 'maginalized minority' has bycotted every election for last 25 years. Not being included in naya pakistan is 'their fault' for they don't even recognize our state.

 

[Nav]

if ahmadi mirzai's thinks they are muslims (every one know they are not certainly ) why they call themselves ahmadi muslims???

 

[livingdead]

Indians please listen up....From reading your posts I realize 1 thing...You do not have a clue about Islam...The 1st and most important thing in Islam is the shahadat which says


I bear witness there is NO GOD but ALLAH AND Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH...

Now BOTH conditions should be be met...


Not God but ALLAH and Muhammad his final msgr!

Now if someone goes around claiming a new Prophet and whatnot is going against the 1st condition to be a Muslim! So, what are they crying about? Its like you commit murder and say you are innocent EVEN AFTER ADMITTING TO THE MURDER!

Doesnt make sense AT ALL!

Is there a specific verse in quran which says mohammed is the last prophet?
the bold bit neither says 'only' nor 'last'.
I remember you saying quran is the final word (compared to hadees).Or was it somebody else?

 

[Pboy]

These Ahmadis should be deported, their whole ideology is against Pakistan. Bogus cult religion who think they can be mainstream, living in a fools paradise.

Then US, UK, Norway etc, every country in the western world can say the same and deport all Muslims.

Respect the minorities. Thats what Islam teaches us. They're not muslims and they should accept it, but deporting them or use force wont help either

Most of the blogs and articles on Tribune has always been rubbish... Not only because I dont agree with their views, but because its low quality many times(Grammar, Facts). Only the sport section is good.

 

[muse]

Ahamdi propagenda machine is at work again. Do you 'gentlemen' know that this so called 'maginalized minority' has bycotted every election for last 25 years. Not being included in naya pakistan is 'their fault' for they don't even recognize our state.

So how do they recognize a state that does not recognize them except on terms dictated by the Jammat - It's Pakistan , not Islamistan, right?

Certain posts in the government are reserved for Muslims. Setting aside the question of whether that's right or wrong, the definition of a Muslim becomes necessary to enforce those laws.

That of course means that the govt is in the business of defining Muslims and Islam - and therefore it can be said with confidence that it is the state itself that is at war with it's own citizenry.

Derive an "Ought" from "is"?