MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[gaurysh]

2010...is going to over......they r still confused wt they will buy.

I think decision will go in 2011 and they will get 126 jets after 2015.

PAF should buy more J-10B and improve JF-17 (New engine, AESA Radar and avonics) with the support of France.

In case they will decide MRCA, PAF would surely go for 40 to 60 Typhoon or Rafeal.

India MRCA Requests for Information (RFI) were issued in 2004. The RFIs were initially sent to four vendors: Dassault (Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2), Lockheed Martin (F-16C and D), Saab (JAS 39 Gripen) and Mikoyan (MiG-29OVT).

Due to the tendering process and delay in issuing the RFIs, Dassault decided to remove the Mirage 2000-5 from the bidding process and enter the Rafale in its place. The MiG-35 was entered in place of the prototype MiG-29OVT.
Eurofighter Typhoon also expressed interest in entering the bidding, and have entered their aircraft into the competition. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet also joined the tendering.

Lets see, how much more delay
One thing which is encouraging that PAF is planning to acquire western jets to counter IAF.


ACM Interview

We are already in process of the MRCA deal, PAF is planning or may be thinking to acquire western jets... but i dont think as per current situation PAF can look over anywhere beyond China

 

[batmannow]

2010...is going to over......they r still confused wt they will buy.

I think decision will go in 2011 and they will get 126 jets after 2015.

PAF should buy more J-10B and improve JF-17 (New engine, AESA Radar and avonics) with the support of France.

In case they will decide MRCA, PAF would surely go for 40 to 60 Typhoon or Rafeal.

India MRCA Requests for Information (RFI) were issued in 2004. The RFIs were initially sent to four vendors: Dassault (Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2), Lockheed Martin (F-16C and D), Saab (JAS 39 Gripen) and Mikoyan (MiG-29OVT).

Due to the tendering process and delay in issuing the RFIs, Dassault decided to remove the Mirage 2000-5 from the bidding process and enter the Rafale in its place. The MiG-35 was entered in place of the prototype MiG-29OVT.
Eurofighter Typhoon also expressed interest in entering the bidding, and have entered their aircraft into the competition. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet also joined the tendering.

Lets see, how much more delay
One thing which is encouraging that PAF is planning to acquire western jets to counter IAF.


ACM Interview

DEAR, MUZB!
i cant see any where in that interview , AM had stated any of PAF westrn oriented inclusions, plz correct me!
all he was reffering was , chinese AC's?
thanks

 

[Student]

We are already in process of the MRCA deal, PAF is planning or may be thinking to acquire western jets... but i dont think as per current situation PAF can look over anywhere beyond China

Mate we need only an all seasons friend. US has made Pakistan play its game now its time for india to do the same. But i am realy happy that Pakistan has found a real friend

It is a personal opinion if wise heads were to lead the nations then we will not be spending Billions on war machines while the poor people in both of our countries starve to death on daily basis.

JF-17 if procured in the stated quantity i.e 250 to 300 will be more than enough to give any nation a run for its money.

 

[PakShaheen79]

The PAF's other, already established, requirements include the development of the JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, co-produced with China.

The PAF plans to eventually induct up to 250 JF-17 fighters, making the aircraft the backbone of its inventory. The first 'fully made in Pakistan' JF-17 is expected to be produced by the end of this year at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, north of Islamabad. However, there is still a requirement for a more advanced fighter aircraft, as the PAF prepares to counter the future edge that may be acquired by the IAF once it completes the planned purchase of 126 multirole combat aircraft (MRCAs)

"We knew about this requirement of the Indian Air Force for 126 latest-generation fighter aircraft. Yes, it is an alarming development because when they get 126 such capable aircraft, then we also need to have something matching to counter that threat," ACM Qamar said.

For the PAF, not only will the induction of 14 used F-16 aircraft and 18 new F-16C/D aircraft figure prominently in narrowing the gap, but continuing negotiations with China to purchase up to 36 FC-20 fighter aircraft - designated the J-10 in China - will also play an important role.

ACM Qamar said the PAF has finalised the technical proposal for the FC-20 and informed the Chinese of its requirements.

"[The technical proposal] is more or less finalised now. There are some changes that are required, which [the Chinese] are making," he said.

This is what i have been saying since ages that FC-20 will be customized as per PAF requirements in China and not by Western companies.

 

[MZUBAIR]

We are already in process of the MRCA deal, PAF is planning or may be thinking to acquire western jets... but i dont think as per current situation PAF can look over anywhere beyond China

How u think and on which basis u claim that we cannt get western jets?

Y u think ur enemy is sleeping.....

If we can get U-214 then we will also be able to get Typhoon.
If we can get French avoinics, Engine ,Radar & submarines then Y not we cant get Rafeal.

If we can get SAAB AWECS then y cant we get JAS 39 Gripen.


Yeah, doubts are only on Russian and American defence deals.
But we are already getting Chinees built jets based on russian technology. But history proced that Chinees products were batter then russian at times.

Dont forget Chinees Shenyang J-6 developed on Soviet MiG-19.
And it was proved much batter then Soviet MiG-19 in Indo-Pakistan 1971 War, where it killed Mig-21 which was believed by many to be a superior aircraft to the J-6 at the time.

In Afghan War, The Pakistan Air Force used the J-6 in action against its original designers, the Soviet Union, and the jet claimed half a dozen air to air victories.

So, dont under estimate Chinees products.

we can get western avoinics,radar engines for JF-17. So there is no doubt abt that.

 

[MZUBAIR]

This is what i have been saying since ages that FC-20 will be customized as per PAF requirements in China and not by Western companies.

But its already capable for Western Avoinics

 

[Joodi]

China is just using pakistan... Your JF17 and J10 is just a crap, and that's the reality, its just to intimidate India, which it is failing to ....

Why does not China use JF 17 extensively?? you would say it is designed for PAF, yes it is designed for PAF, a cheap machine to fool PAF... i assume if you ask PAF pilots they would tell you the truth of JF 17, they would say Mirages and F16 are much better then the JF17

Please don’t make drunk statements, passing such hypothetical judgments is useless. Support ur judgment with substance before passing ridiculous comments.

PAF knows its requirements very well how to ensure on country’s air defence. Strategists at PAF are not fool who are willing to invest around 5 billion $ on purchase of 250 JF17, each batch of JF17 will have successive improvements upgrades adding it to its lethalness.

As for Induction of Jf17 in Chinese air force, that’s not PAF issue, this joint venture has no such clause which makes it compulsory for Chinese to make a compulsory induction. JF17’s non induction in Chinese air force has nothing to do with quality or performance issues. Every force has their own strategy.

JF17 has been tailor made keeping in view the PAF requirements of an economical 4th generation aircraft to work as PAF work horse, and simultaneously has the capacity to improvements. Chinese has different plans for their air force.

 

[gaurysh]

Please don’t make drunk statements, passing such hypothetical judgments is useless. Support ur judgment with substance before passing ridiculous comments.

PAF knows its requirements very well how to ensure on country’s air defence. Strategists at PAF are not fool who are willing to invest around 5 billion $ on purchase of 250 JF17, each batch of JF17 will have successive improvements upgrades adding it to its lethalness.

As for Induction of Jf17 in Chinese air force, that’s not PAF issue, this joint venture has no such clause which makes it compulsory for Chinese to make a compulsory induction. JF17’s non induction in Chinese air force has nothing to do with quality or performance issues. Every force has their own strategy.

JF17 has been tailor made keeping in view the PAF requirements of an economical 4th generation aircraft to work as PAF work horse, and simultaneously has the capacity to improvements. Chinese has different plans for their air force.

You got it rite for $ 5bn you wont get anything other then JF 17, PAF knows what it wants but what PAF wants is not being given to them by GOP so it has gone for JF17.... thats what i want to say..

About Chinese Induction of JF 17, Will chinese develope top quality product and not use it themselves...

 

[Hulk]

Another thing, J17 is not yet developed and we are comparing. Let it get completed and then talk.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Another thing, J17 is not yet developed and we are comparing. Let it get completed and then talk.

It has been developed only thing remaining is its induction which is going on at moment.

 

[Joodi]

Another thing, J17 is not yet developed and we are comparing. Let it get completed and then talk.

Dear update urself first, who told you that jf17 is in development phase. JF17 first squardon will get operational before end of this year, and it will be stationed at peshawar.

 

[Joodi]

You got it rite for $ 5bn you wont get anything other then JF 17, PAF knows what it wants but what PAF wants is not being given to them by GOP so it has gone for JF17.... thats what i want to say..

Who told you that GoP has not given what PAF wants. Dont do wishfull thinking. Talk with reference and proof. PAF has spent 1.5 billion $ on swedish AWACS systems,3.5 Billion $ on purcahse of F16 block 52 and MLU F16, new UAVs, air to air refullers, induction of firsat batch of of 50 JF17 and many other multi billion dollars purchases and projects have either completed or in progress, so Dont worry abt GoP approval regarding PAF purchases.

About Chinese Induction of JF 17, Will chinese develope top quality product and not use it themselves...

Read my previous post you will get the answer.

 

[raveolution]

Well ... even JF-17 should not be compared against MRCA.
JF-17s primary role is not to counter MRCA, instead, that role will be fulfilled by F16-52s and FC-20.

It will be better suited for discussion at hand if we compare these two to the possible acquisition of MRCA by India

I differ on the opinion that the JF17 is not to be compared against the MRCA. What has to be kept in mind is that on the PAF side, JF17 will be the only aircraft to be inducted in large numbers for now. On IAF's side, it will be both the SU30 and the MRCA. That is another reason why the JF17 is being developed as a multirole platform.

You cannot expect 60 F16's and 36 FC20's to go against 280 SU30's and 126 (Maybe 200) MRCA alone.

Feel free to disagree. Cheers

 

[PakShaheen79]

I differ on the opinion that the JF17 is not to be compared against the MRCA. What has to be kept in mind is that on the PAF side, JF17 will be the only aircraft to be inducted in large numbers for now. On IAF's side, it will be both the SU30 and the MRCA. That is another reason why the JF17 is being developed as a multirole platform.

You cannot expect 60 F16's and 36 FC20's to go against 280 SU30's and 126 (Maybe 200) MRCA alone.

Feel free to disagree. Cheers

Number of FC-20 will go up considerably something near 100-150 once it did satisfy PAF.

 

[Joodi]

I differ on the opinion that the JF17 is not to be compared against the MRCA. What has to be kept in mind is that on the PAF side, JF17 will be the only aircraft to be inducted in large numbers for now. On IAF's side, it will be both the SU30 and the MRCA. That is another reason why the JF17 is being developed as a multirole platform.

250 JF17 is expected to counter LCA, Upgraded mig 21/29 and mirage 2000.

You cannot expect 60 F16's and 36 FC20's to go against 280 SU30's and 126 (Maybe 200) MRCA alone.

2 sq. of J10 is not where the world ends for PAF, its just the start of inducting such high tech plate forms in PAF. As per PAF strategy (36) j10s will operational till 2014-15. what happens after that, which planes PAF opts for, for that we can just wait and see and do the guess work.