MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[ice_man]

see everyone seems to discount the KICKBACKS!!!! it is hard to accept but it is reality anyone who can court and dine & entertain the right people will win the contract......

and i guess it will come to britian vs the french in terms of kick backs....don't think the Sweds are too good at it.....

 

[Kompromat]

Boeing Assures India TOT of Hornets:

Boeing assurance on ToT for production of F-18IN in India news

29 October 2009

New Delhi: After successfully completing the second phase of trials for Indian Air Force's 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender , US firm Boeing Co said it was ready to transfer technology which would allow construction of its F/A-18IN Super Hornet fighter jets in India.

'We fully intend for Super Hornet to be built in India,' said Boeing Military Aircraft Integrated Defence Systems president Christopher M Chadwick here.

While the Indians generally maintain a free-flowing relationship with the Russians as far as transfer of technology is concerned, US firms are more tight-fisted and, given the lack of political goodwill amongst both nations, also more unreliable.

'We plan to build 18 aircraft in the US and from the 19th aircraft it will be built in India…. we will continue transfer of technology to India so that they not only assemble but make lots of part of the aircraft in India…. actually building the aircraft here,' Chadwick added.

Boeing and the Indians are aware that for transfer of American technology, prior approval of the US Congress required. It is fairly certain that award of the MMRCA contract to a US firm, either Boeing or Lockheed Martin, would eventually hinge around the level of technology transfers that the Americans are willing to allow with their aircraft.

Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest defence contractor, is in the running with the Block 60 version of the F-16, dubbed the F-16IN Super Viper. This is the most advanced version of the aircraft currently available and serves with the UAE air force.

Meanwhile, Boeing's offering for the Indian Air Force, the F/A-18IN, has completed the first two phases of trials. While the first phase was completed in the United States, the second phase was conducted at various locations around India - Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh.

The third phase of trials, which will be the weapons phase, will be held in February 2010 in the US.

The other aircraft competing for the $11 billion MMRCA tender are the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper, Dassault's Rafale, Saab's Gripen, Russia's MiG-35 and the European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoon.

As per terms of the tender, the IAF will acquire 18 aircraft in fly-away condition, with the rest being manufactured by HAL under a technology transfer deal. There is a possibility of the size of the order being enhanced. The aircraft are meant to replace primarily the IAF's ageing fleet of MiG-21 Fishbed fighters.
Regards:
Reference:
domain-b.com : Boeing assurance on ToT for production of F-18IN in India

 

[Chanakyaa]

Boeing Assures India TOT of Hornets:

Boeing assurance on ToT for production of F-18IN in India news

29 October 2009

New Delhi: After successfully completing the second phase of trials for Indian Air Force's 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender , US firm Boeing Co said it was ready to transfer technology which would allow construction of its F/A-18IN Super Hornet fighter jets in India.

'We fully intend for Super Hornet to be built in India,' said Boeing Military Aircraft Integrated Defence Systems president Christopher M Chadwick here.

While the Indians generally maintain a free-flowing relationship with the Russians as far as transfer of technology is concerned, US firms are more tight-fisted and, given the lack of political goodwill amongst both nations, also more unreliable.

'We plan to build 18 aircraft in the US and from the 19th aircraft it will be built in India…. we will continue transfer of technology to India so that they not only assemble but make lots of part of the aircraft in India…. actually building the aircraft here,' Chadwick added.

Boeing and the Indians are aware that for transfer of American technology, prior approval of the US Congress required. It is fairly certain that award of the MMRCA contract to a US firm, either Boeing or Lockheed Martin, would eventually hinge around the level of technology transfers that the Americans are willing to allow with their aircraft.

Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest defence contractor, is in the running with the Block 60 version of the F-16, dubbed the F-16IN Super Viper. This is the most advanced version of the aircraft currently available and serves with the UAE air force.

Meanwhile, Boeing's offering for the Indian Air Force, the F/A-18IN, has completed the first two phases of trials. While the first phase was completed in the United States, the second phase was conducted at various locations around India - Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh.

The third phase of trials, which will be the weapons phase, will be held in February 2010 in the US.

The other aircraft competing for the $11 billion MMRCA tender are the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper, Dassault's Rafale, Saab's Gripen, Russia's MiG-35 and the European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoon.

As per terms of the tender, the IAF will acquire 18 aircraft in fly-away condition, with the rest being manufactured by HAL under a technology transfer deal. There is a possibility of the size of the order being enhanced. The aircraft are meant to replace primarily the IAF's ageing fleet of MiG-21 Fishbed fighters.
Regards:
Reference:
domain-b.com : Boeing assurance on ToT for production of F-18IN in India

But ToT of the AESA still needs to be approved by Congress.
All will be clear ONLY when the actual winner is chosen.

They Must have a Runner up as well, So that If the First Candidate is Not successful in the negotiation they go with the second plus they can even have a comparative bargaining as well.

 

[Storm Force]

Have to admire the way the Indians have everyone running around trying to win this contract with 3 different test phases both in India and in EACH parent/ competitor country ,, the kick backs and the TOT.

By anyones standards 126 fighters is a very big contract.

The Americans will blow the minds of the IAF evaluation committee in Feb 2010 when they will see the FULL NETWORK centric F18 Super hornet in operation in a 21ST FULL DIGITAL battlefield.. in the UNITED STATES..

The will win this contract because they are cheaper than euro canards and have a fully matured AESA system APG79 whereas the euro canards and Russians are simply stil at test stage with their AESA programmes.

I think we will all see F18 super hornets in IAF colours from 2012 onwards.

THEY HAVE BEEN the favorites for some time now.

 

[deckingraj]

see everyone seems to discount the KICKBACKS!!!! it is hard to accept but it is reality anyone who can court and dine & entertain the right people will win the contract......

and i guess it will come to britian vs the french in terms of kick backs....don't think the Sweds are too good at it.....

Does that mean anything that PAK buys are becuase of KickBacks?? Also chances of kick backs are more in a closed room vs comparison of different air crafts for 2 freaking years... This is one of the major steps that GOI has taken to make defence procurement more transparent....Does that make sense??

My personal views even though with limited defence knowledge would have been Typhoon...because when it comes to USA they are unreliable and always reluctant for TOT...

 

[ice_man]

Does that mean anything that PAK buys are becuase of KickBacks?? Also chances of kick backs are more in a closed room vs comparison of different air crafts for 2 freaking years... This is one of the major steps that GOI has taken to make defence procurement more transparent....Does that make sense??

My personal views even though with limited defence knowledge would have been Typhoon...because when it comes to USA they are unreliable and always reluctant for TOT...

yes!!! everyone gets kick backs! so much so that even the saudi's who set the benchmark of being rich take kick backs!!!!

so its not only indian or pakistanis that take kick backs everyone does.....

 

[Abhishek Das]

Pakistan can't afford to compete with Indian Air Force in future more because IAF is eyeing the target of having combat aircrafts more than 1,200-1,300 to fight China's PLAAF which may have 1,800-1,900 combat aircrafts at the same time by 2030,.....India is planning to field 366 upgraded Sukhoi-Super 30's, 200 Dassault Rafaels, 144 Sukhoi-FGFA, 250 HAL A.M.C.A, 250 HAL Tejas LCA, & another 150 aircrafts of medium load with 6th Generation stealth features...so PAF can not compete with this vast number of combat aircrafts....!!!

 

[zeeshanvita]

Pakistan can't afford to compete with Indian Air Force in future more because IAF is eyeing the target of having combat aircrafts more than 1,200-1,300 to fight China's PLAAF which may have 1,800-1,900 combat aircrafts at the same time by 2030,.....India is planning to field 366 upgraded Sukhoi-Super 30's, 200 Dassault Rafaels, 144 Sukhoi-FGFA, 250 HAL A.M.C.A, 250 HAL Tejas LCA, & another 150 aircrafts of medium load with 6th Generation stealth features...so PAF can not compete with this vast number of combat aircrafts....!!!

Yar toa tension na lea...

 

[Storm Force]

I wouldn't worry about mmrca the paf
Have far less worries than their navy who will stand no chance against the Indian navy.

Mmrca is miles away. In contrast Indian navy is inducting new ships every month it seems and nearly all indengious

 

[danger007]

2009 thread ... woot

 

[Nova2]

Wow......2 posts and both of those post hv been used to dug out older threads @Abhishek Das
btw mmrca deal is still hanging by a thread with people still in dilema of would it be a good deal or a bad one......but it for sure vl worry pakistan if it gets through

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think the Rafale will win it, full ToT (including AESA tech) and even source codes. It will give the IAF a massive new capability and it is free from American export regulations and restrictions as it is all French. SPECTRA would not be provided though as it is forbidden to be exported.

Well, well; somebody prescient got it right in 2009!

i am saying again and again that india will not go for typhon or rafale or gripen or any american jet

okay check this out

DERA study

Britain’s Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an evaluation in 1994 (simulation based on the available data) comparing the Typhoon with some other modern fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35. Due to the lack of information gathered on the 5th generation combat aircraft, the inability to take into account advances in avionics and weapons now fitted to the fighters tested, and lack of knowledge on the capabilities of the Su-35 during the time of this study it is not meant to be considered official and its results should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The study used real pilots flying the JOUST system of networked simulators. Various western aircraft supposed data were put in simulated combat against the Su-35. The results were:

Aircraft Odds vs. Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1 : 1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5 : 1
Dassault Rafale C 1 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8 : 1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3 : 1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3 : 1

These results mean, for example, that in simulated combat, 4.5 Su-35s were shot down for every Typhoon lost. Missiles such as the KS-172 may be intended for large targets and not fighters, but their impact on a long range BVR engagement needs to be factored in.

The "F/A-18+" in the study was apparently not the current F/A-18E/F, but an improved version. All the western aircraft in the simulation were using an older version of the AMRAAM missile, except the Rafale which was using the MICA missile. This does not reflect the likely long-term air-to-air armament of Eurofighters (as well as Rafales), which will ultimately be equipped with the longer-range MBDA Meteor (while carrying the AMRAAM as an interim measure).

And here somebody got it all wrong in 2009. Talk of lack of fore-sight.
Never mind the long-winded arguments trotted out.

 

[fatman17]

any platform inducted by IAF is a threat to the PAF.

 

[sachin@india]

any platform inducted by IAF is a threat to the PAF.

can you tell us, how many jets have been inducted by PAF since 2000. old new any jets.

 

[elitepilot09]

Have to admire the way the Indians have everyone running around trying to win this contract with 3 different test phases both in India and in EACH parent/ competitor country ,, the kick backs and the TOT.

By anyones standards 126 fighters is a very big contract.

The Americans will blow the minds of the IAF evaluation committee in Feb 2010 when they will see the FULL NETWORK centric F18 Super hornet in operation in a 21ST FULL DIGITAL battlefield.. in the UNITED STATES..

The will win this contract because they are cheaper than euro canards and have a fully matured AESA system APG79 whereas the euro canards and Russians are simply stil at test stage with their AESA programmes.

I think we will all see F18 super hornets in IAF colours from 2012 onwards.

THEY HAVE BEEN the favorites for some time now.

Nice Super Hornets! @Storm Force