MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[rajeev]

Strategically, if I am a Pakistani, I will think the following way:
India's military spending in 1990 was about 3 billion, and in 2009 it is about 35 billion. So, if we assume similar trends in future, then we should expect by 2039, it will be about 350 billion or so. The number is huge already and it will get very large as each year goes on.

1. The better counter measure is to have Pak-China treaty similar to Indo-Russian treaty of 1971 which will pull China into a war if India attacks Pakistan.
2. Give far more military access to China in terms of ports (like one did in Gwadar) so that China could treaten India from navy and also be able to safeguard Pakistan's oil supply in case of war.
3. Not to badmouth a country but like India, China has lot of corruption too. So Pakis should buy important senators votes and have a strong lobby.

This way Pakistan will assured of maintaining safety without spending much money on military side. The only side effect and risk of greater Indo-Chinese friendship.

But practically speaking it will be get far more difficult to match India's spending power as year goes on. Please dont be emotional - I am only being pragmatic here!

 

[gaurysh]

PAF is fairly confident about its force modernization plans and this is in light of the IAF plans to go for MMRCA as well as the ongoing MKI induction. Our response to MMRCA will not be in the form of a new aircraft. Both JF-17 and FC-20 have enough life and upgrades planned so they will see PAF through for the next 20+ years. It would have been a very challenging thing had the MMRCA been a 5th generation solution. For anything less than 5th generation, the threat can be handled with integration of modern avionics and weapons, which is exactly the plan.

IAF dont need 5th gen fighter yet as it will be countering 3rd gen fighters in PAF most the times. IAF already has 4.5th gen fighter and v dont need MRCA to be 5th gen... and India is also working on FGFA closely with Russia, may be sometime after induction of MRCA and the MKI gets its full number the 5th gen fighter will be thought to IAF but not now...

And for you will PAF counter 4th, 4.5th gen fighters IAF has with 3rd gen?

 

[gaurysh]

If the PAF haven't countered those Russian aeroplanes, why didn't the InAF do their surgical strikes a few months back? Why should the PAF even bother countering those who are too scared to attack? Its easy to sit there typing on the internet while hyped up with nationalism, but at the end of the day, actions (or lack of them) speak louder than words.

BTW according to a retired Air Cdre (look it up) of the PAF, they have indeed countered their opponents and a retired Group Captain backs him up. I'll trust the word of those who know the most intimate secrets of the PAF over those of some kid on the internet.

It does not mean even if we had the best air force in the world we would have attacked pakistan, surgical strikes would have meant a full scale war... its easy for you to write words... we build our defence forces mainly to defend our borders and our people and not to go for war every time... if we get new fighters or new arms its not to attack paksitan, its to defend ourselves from our bad eyed neighbours..

India took a diplomatic way to counter the situation...

 

[hj786]

And for you will PAF counter 4th, 4.5th gen fighters IAF has with 3rd gen?

What you call 3rd gen, the rest of the world calls 3.5-4th gen (JF-17) and 4.5 gen (J-10).

its easy for you to write words...

Its easy for you to live in a dream world, as shown above.

Again, actions speak louder than words. If India is scared of a full scale war with Pakistan as you stated in your own post, I can only assume the PAF is doing something right since any war would depend on the PAF holding the InAF back.

 

[hj786]

But practically speaking it will be get far more difficult to match India's spending power as year goes on. Please dont be emotional - I am only being pragmatic here!

You make a couple of fair points, Rajeev. But you are still denying that if Pakistan's problems with political instability (and high level corruption to some extent) are fixed, its economy also undergoes very good growth. Examples can be seen during the tenures of Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto (a time when Pakistan was labelled an Asian Tiger) and Musharraf.

 

[Storm Force]

HJ786 Asian tigers and their potential is not the same as the GIANT economic growth potential of very large developing countries like india Brazil and china.

These latter countries have enourmous natural resources cheap labour and massive forex reserves /fdi. They will mushroom into giant GDPs over the next decade.

The Tiger economies referred to likes of Malaysia Singpore Taiwan etc who are small populations but skilled work forces and now highly developed infrastructures. They have high per capita incomes.

Pakistan is neither a tiger economy its population is too large to acheive high per income capita growth and not large enuf to have the vast natural resources of likes of Brazil India and china.

Back to Topic

J10/F16 would be ideal solution TO BOTH MRCA/SU30MKI.

PAF has to acquire well over 150 F16/52 (62 are not enough to go against 280 su30mki)

As for J10 again at least 100 with western aesa radar and weapons to against 120 or so mmrca

 

[gaurysh]

What you call 3rd gen, the rest of the world calls 3.5-4th gen (JF-17) and 4.5 gen (J-10).


Its easy for you to live in a dream world, as shown above.

Again, actions speak louder than words. If India is scared of a full scale war with Pakistan as you stated in your own post, I can only assume the PAF is doing something right since any war would depend on the PAF holding the InAF back.

PAF still wont be at par with IAF dosent matter how much you guys say or try... Ya actions does speak louder then words, IAF have fully operational squadrons of 4.5th gen and 4th gen, PAF is in the process and JF 17 is meant to take on 4th gen but its still a 3rd gen peice of JUnk copied design of Russian, Manufactured in China Painted in green and sold to PAF. JF 17 is not worry for IAF and the J10 wont be either

 

[gaurysh]

You make a couple of fair points, Rajeev. But you are still denying that if Pakistan's problems with political instability (and high level corruption to some extent) are fixed, its economy also undergoes very good growth. Examples can be seen during the tenures of Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto (a time when Pakistan was labelled an Asian Tiger) and Musharraf.

Your dream of a very good growth will remain a dream only Paksitan willl never be able to go in for Heavy defence investments such as India does just like how china is way ahead of India, India is way ahead of Pakistan. India is catching up with China it has the potential to catch up with India's growing economy it can hope to atleast

 

[batmannow]

Your dream of a very good growth will remain a dream only Paksitan willl never be able to go in for Heavy defence investments such as India does just like how china is way ahead of India, India is way ahead of Pakistan. India is catching up with China it has the potential to catch up with India's growing economy it can hope to atleast

NOW! gme a break , will you!
what are you , posting here? is that is the topic?
plz go to ECONOMIC section! to post this BS!

i guss, you had been given the answers , you need to hear!
stop it, dear kid just go WATCH , SLUM DOG MILLIONRE ."India is catching up with China it has the potential to catch up with India's growing economy it can hope to atleast"

 

[rajeev]

You make a couple of fair points, Rajeev. But you are still denying that if Pakistan's problems with political instability (and high level corruption to some extent) are fixed, its economy also undergoes very good growth. Examples can be seen during the tenures of Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto (a time when Pakistan was labelled an Asian Tiger) and Musharraf.

I think it will be impossible for Pakistan to overcome India's military defence budget unless there is some very unexpected disaster happens. I think for the timebeing it appears, US will be ahead of China in terms of technology, China ahead of India (only in military tech), India ahead of Pakistan, Pakistan ahead of Bangladesh, etc. etc.

It is very difficult to counter population size. Currently per capita GDP of India is far higher and then you multiple with humongous population, then it is impossible. But even if theorize that per capita GDP becomes much higher than India, even though, how will Pak counter population. Estimates of Indian population is to reach 1.8billion and Pak to be 350 million by 2050.

Also, if you were trust Goldman Sachs's BRIC report, Indian GDP should be second highest in the world about 40-50 trillion and matching mere 3% GDP would mean 1.2 trillion-1.5 trillion.

 

[rajeev]

NOW! gme a break , will you!
what are you , posting here? is that is the topic?
plz go to ECONOMIC section! to post this BS!

i guss, you had been given the answers , you need to hear!
stop it, dear kid just go WATCH , SLUM DOG MILLIONRE ."India is catching up with China it has the potential to catch up with India's growing economy it can hope to atleast"

Sorry I was stating the obvious. This thread is about Pak's counter to MRCA. Theoretically tell me what could be response of Pak?

Can Pak even match buying even low-priced Chinese planes in equal numbers. I think it is far more difficult.

Pak's entire budget is closer to India's military budget. That is a fact.

And top of it, Pak is engraved in taliban problem. For taking actions such as these, Pak has to spent more in deploying army rather than buying more high tech/doing some R&D and all.

Besides I dont know why people get emotional. Countries don't have a heart or soul for the matter, they do what is best in their interests.

 

[hack]

Some nonsensical view points put forward here....I don't see anyone from Pakistan claiming that they will match India dollar for dollar.

 

[rajeev]

I was reading about L-band radar tech developed by Chinese. Some are claiming that has better ability to detect 5th gen planes. I think Pak could/should get that in numbers. That will be pretty cool counter to Indian Phalcon's.

 

[hj786]

Some nonsensical view points put forward here....I don't see anyone from Pakistan claiming that they will match India dollar for dollar.

Typical behaviour of the Indian trolls around here.

 

[PakShaheen79]

PAF still wont be at par with IAF dosent matter how much you guys say or try... Ya actions does speak louder then words, IAF have fully operational squadrons of 4.5th gen and 4th gen, PAF is in the process and JF 17 is meant to take on 4th gen but its still a 3rd gen peice of JUnk copied design of Russian, Manufactured in China Painted in green and sold to PAF. JF 17 is not worry for IAF and the J10 wont be either

Wow!
Now would to take the pain to give me an idea how on earth JF-17 can be a 3rd gen fighter. I will not take on "Junk" part as only a war can prove what it is...

J-10... Hmmm... I think US was comparing it with F-18s some time way back in 1997 when they came to know about this project.