Most of Pakistan isn't a part of the Indian sub-continent

[Jobless Jack]

Pakistanis are Arabs. Here are some indisputable facts

1) Pakistanis take pride in being descendants of Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim who invaded Indian subcontinent and made Indians as the slaves of the Arabs

2) Pakistanis follow tribe system like their Arab forefathers rather than the caste system followed in Indian subcontinent the natives. For example, even Muslims from India and Bangladesh follow caste system for marriages but there is no caste system in Pakistan

3) Pakistan love Arab culture and hate anything to do with Indian subcontinent culture. This is an important fact. People in Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Iran are all Muslims but they still take great pride in their local culture and history but in case of Pakistanis they hate any and all local culture and history prior to the conquest of the land by Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim. Pakistan's history starts with this event.

Are you seriously stupid ?

Muslims no where east west north or south Follow a caste system ! Even in Bangladesh no one follows a caste system !

Most Bangladeshi parents prefer their sons and daughters to marry a Bangladeshi, but this is not due to some caste system bullshit ! only because of the fact that people from the same country tend to get along much easier as they have more in common. This does not mean if a Bangladeshi marries say a Pakistani , His/her Bangladeshi parents will throw him/her out of the house ! It is perfectly acceptable as long as the Bangladeshi has married a muslim !
Many Bangladeshis who lives abroad has married Indian/Pakistani muslim. This practice is not common but many do it and it is perfectly fine !

To your second point , Bangladeshis do take pride in their language/culture but the 1952 Language movement against West Pakistan had nothing to do with silly pride. If Urdu became the national language then most people in east Pakistan would have fallen behind in terms of education/job opportunity as most official state texts would have been distributed in Urdu and in that point in time hardly anyone could speak let alone read/write Urdu in East Pakistan.

It was discrimination that separated East and West Pakistan . This discrimination was especially highlighted due to the geographical distance and bad integration of both parts. Discrimination which by the way minorities in both India and Pakistan face to this day. However Pakistan has learned its lesson from '71 and is integrating its minorities better , while India is just going backwards.

So anyway, while we Bangladeshis take pride in our culture most would chose a Islam over culture. A Bangladeshi Muslim has nothing in common with a Hindu from West Bengal though both are bengalis ! Actually we dislike those idiots from west Bengal ! Of course in terms of culture He/she will find even more commonality a Muslim from say west Bengal and Assam and yes your average Pakistani has a different culture to us. However he/she ( Pakistani ) will find more commonality with us compared to a Hindu from west Bengal! The way we celebrate Bengali new year compared to the west Bengali are completely different. We for only treat the day as a day off to get together with family and friends and relax. For the west Bengals , its almost like a religious day.

We respect our Muslim brothers whether they are from India, Pakistan or wherever. However '71 is an emotional topic, and as most Bangladeshis are very emotional , so for this reason you Indians falsely think that we like you and Pakistan's think that we hate you. Its war and everyone suffers. Yes we do celebrate Bengali New year , however in Bangladesh it is mostly a Holiday where people just take a break and put their feet up. Its not some bullshit Bengali nationalism that Indian Hindus spew to find commonality with Bangladeshis. Our Culture is not Bengali nationalism. We separated from Pakistan not for Bengali nationalism but due to discrimination. I am glad that Pakistan has learned its lessons from 1971 and is integrating its minorities better . If they had learned their lesson before 1971 perhaps both countries would today be together.



So please keep Bangladeshis out of your Bullshit like caste System, Bengali nationalism and drinking cow Urine. These gem of bullshits are only found in Bharat mata

 

[M. Sarmad]

You know I once heard that Vallabhai Patel said that Kashmir state should go to Pakistan while Hyderabad state goes to India in exchange. Pakistan should have accepted that arrangement.
But our blithering idiotic leaders were too shortsighted to see that.

You guys can google this claim.

agreed

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-if-the-subcontinent-was-one-country.587506/page-7#post-10953888

That would be most of the forum (so far).

Nah, only you and your coterie of ch****s, and a few of those who do not know who you really are; a Namak Haram traitorous Afghani leech hiding in Pakistan

Do you really think that most people living in Pakistan migrated from India?

Not most of them,

But as per 1951 census, settlers from East Punjab constituted 25.6 % of the total population of Pakistani Punjab. i.e. every fourth person in Punjab was a "settler from East Punjab". Punjabi immigrants from East Punjab got easily assimilated in the host society as there were no cultural or lingual differences between East and West Punjab, contrary to what the Punjab hater Afghani refugee is propounding here.

.. Ranjit Singh

Well, Ranjit Singh despite being a Sikh was much more tolerant and 'inclusive' in his approach when dealing with those who were not his co-religionists, as compared to the despotic Afghans (and even Mughals) who claimed to be Muslims.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Well, Ranjit Singh despite being a Sikh was much more tolerant and 'inclusive' in his approach when dealing with those who were not his correligionists, as compared to the despotic Afghans (and even Mughals) who claimed to be Muslims.

Mr Singh is clearly confused about his identity, if he claims to be a proud Muslim and Pakistani but throws Pakistanis who fought alongside the Durranis and Mughals under the bus and feels closer to anti-Muslim Masjid to stable transformer Ranjit Singh.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Mr Singh is clearly confused about his identity, if he claims to be a proud Muslim and Pakistani but throws Pakistanis who fought alongside the Durranis and Mughals under the bus and feels closer to anti-Muslim Masjid to stable transformer Ranjit Singh.

Thanks for proving that you are just an ignorant Afghani who knows nothing about the history of Punjab.

Do you know many Punjabi Muslims fought alongside Sikhs against the invading Afghani plunderers? (or how many Dakhini Muslims fought alongside Marathas against the Afghan invaders?) Do Afghanis like yourself see them as lesser Muslims? Those invasions by Afghans were purely plundering campaigns with absolutely no religious overtones or undertones as they were often directed against Muslim rulers and Muslim commoners.

Do you know the man in charge of the treasury, as well as the arsenal of the Sikh empire during Ranjit Singh's era, was a Muslim?

Do you know Ranjit Singh's Foreign Minister was also a Muslim?

Do you know how many of his emissaries were Punjabi Muslims?

Of course, you don't.

As for transforming Mughal Masjids into stables, A deplorable act indeed.

But have you forgotten what Ahmad Shah Abdali did to Gurdawaras, esp. the holiest of them for Sikhs, the Golden Temple; blew up the building and filled the pond with ****. Have you forgotten what Mughal Kings did to Sikh Gurus and their children?

Ranjit Singh, later on, handed Muslims most of their mosques back. He even gifted all Nowadrat (Islamic Relics) to the respectable Fakir Family (of Lahore) instead of destroying or desecrating them. Today, Fakir Khana is the largest privately owned museum in South Asia.

And what did the Afghans do? other than indiscriminate loot and plunder

A folk saying ‘khada peeta lahe da, baqi Ahmed shahe da
(what you can consume may be of some benefit to you, the rest is taken away by Ahmed Shah)

The great bard of Punjab, Waris Shah, too explicitly hinted at the threat the Afghan marauder posed:

‘Chadia gazab da katak Kandhar vichon (a terrible army started its march from Kandhar)
Ahmed Shah az gab thin aan pausi (Ahmed Shah will descend from nowhere and strike)’


I can go on and on,

But I don't need to discuss the history of my land and my people with a clueless foreign Afghani racist who holds deep hatred and contempt for Punjabis.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

But have you forgotten what Ahmad Shah Abdali did to Gurdawaras, esp. the holiest of them for Sikhs, the Golden Temple; blew up the building and filled the pond with ****. Have you forgotten what Mughal Kings did to Sikh Gurus and their children?

You do realize that Punjabi Muslims also did similar acts, right?

You cannot compare Sikhs and their persecution of Muslims to the Afghans.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You do realize that Punjabi Muslims also did similar acts, right?

You cannot compare Sikhs and their persecution of Muslims to the Afghans.

What similar acts were done by Punjabi Muslims? Elaborate, please

Are you a Pakhtun?

 

[MultaniGuy]

What similar acts were done by Punjabi Muslims? Elaborate, please

Are you a Pakhtun?

I am Pathan by ancestry, but Punjabized now.

By the way, the Sikhs were quite barbaric to the Muslims. There is no doubt about this.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

2) Pakistanis follow tribe system like their Arab forefathers rather than the caste system followed in Indian subcontinent the natives. For example, even Muslims from India and Bangladesh follow caste system for marriages but there is no caste system in Pakistan

Pakistan's tribal/birdari system was practiced since thousands of years before Arabs even set foot in Sindh. Our ancestors never practiced the caste system; that is a Gangadeshi practice that was imposed on you South Indians.

Here is what Ganga texts say of our people.

‘Where these five rivers, viz. Satadru, Vipasa, the third Iraavatl, Candrabhaga and Vitasta flow
and where there are pllu-forests and (where) Sindhu is the sixth to flow out, this country is called
Aratta...’ - 21

‘That (region) where these five rivers, emerging from the mountains flow, this Aratta (country) is
called Balhika where the Arya should not stay even for two days.’ - 22

Here is a passage from a book written by a renowned Indian historian regarding the "Bahlikas" (ancestors of coterminous Pakistan)

The passage gives the impression that amongst the Balhikas, the Aryan social structure which
became a rule in the later days was not enforced and observed strictly. Thus it was not considered
obligatory by the people to hold on to a single occupation. A Brahmin who visited this region found it
to his dismay that “having become brahmin ones, a balhika becomes ksatriya, then (he became)
vaisya, sudra and even a barber. Having become barber, he again became a brahmin and having
become a twice-born, he became a dasa. In the same family one becomes brahmin and the rest
followed other professions”, and he concluded that ‘Gandharas, Madrakas and Balhikas are utterly
thoughtless’. These probably are the impressions of a man who in his society was used to strict
observance of caste system in which the caste of the person was decided by his birth and it was
obligatory on him to follow the profession of the family in which he was born. This was the rigid
form the caste system took. But evidently caste system was not strictly observed in the country of
Aratta where the individual was free to choose liis profession and change it, if necessary, irrespective
of the professions of the other members of family as well as those practised by liis forefathers, which
gave great amount of occupational mobility to individuals. It is tempting not to see in this what was
probably a custom of long-standing and perhaps a part of the ancient way of life inherited from the
Asuras.

The religion of the people of Aratta is described as nastadharma, destroyed religion, which was
forbidden to the Aryans, ayajvanam, not sacrificing, a term which is used in Rgveda to describe the
religion of the Dasyus, the Dasas and the Panis. In the Mahabharata-passage it is the religion of the
Vratya, dasanuya (?) and the people of Videha. Balhikas are classed under those from whom the gods,
the ancestors and the brahmin do not accept anything. In general the Balhikas seem to be treated as
outcastes who probably deliberately remained outside the pale of Aryan social structure and also did
not accept the religious beliefs on which the sacrificial system was based, which explains their being
called unsacrificing etc.

As you can see, we did not follow your caste system neither did we follow your religion.

You can google and there are tons of material confirming that Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim invaded India and made my forefathers as slaves. I do not think any Pakistani even disputes this fact. In fact this is an event of great pride for the Pakistanis. Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim was their great forefather who conquered India. Pakistanis created and dedicate Pakistan in his name.

Most Pakistani's (mostly Sindhis) don't support Muhammad ibn Qasim for his religion, but we support him for what we did; which was liberating Sindh from a hated tyrant.

Raja Dahir's father, Chach, was a Brahmin Hindu adviser to the legitimate King who was a Buddhist (as it had been for centuries). Chach took over through murder and conspiracies and installed his tyranny over the land which his son succeeded after Chach's death. The Buddhist Majority was persecuted, most notably the Jatts; who were forced to wear a special mark to distinguish them. That's why when Muhammad ibn Qasim came, most of the people supported and joined him in his quest to topple this illegitimate and tyrannical Hindu dynasty.

In fact, Pakistanis from the South of Indus are closer to North Indians (racially, ethnically and linguistically) compared to Pakhtuns and Balochs.

Think again

As I said before, almost every genetic study shows that Pakistani ethnic groups cluster together and share a very similar genetic makeup.

Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are of the same race/ethnicity.

Punjabis are not a race or ethnicity; they are divided into different sub-ethnic groups (Seraikis) and tribes, many of which have different origins. "Punjabi" is more of a geographical term, anyone living in Punjab - regardless of their ethnic group, can be considered a Punjabi.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Punjabis are not a race or ethnicity...

So, Punjabi is not an ethnicity now!!!
You didn't tell if you too were a Pakhtun?

 

[BringHarmony]

Totally wrong. I live in Canada and I always tell people I am

Well, you are not the only Pakistani immigrant here in Canada.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

What similar acts were done by Punjabi Muslims? Elaborate, please

Are you a Pakhtun?

I'm not Pakhtun, but why do you hate Pashtuns and why are you calling fellow Pashtun members here as "Afghan refugees" - let go of this ethno-nationalism and have some shame.

Mir Mannu is one such example who was responsible for killing Sikhs, many of them dying in the most painful manner. Do you know your history?

So, Punjabi is not an ethnicity now!!!
You didn't tell if you too were a Pakhtun?

Punjabis are not an ethnicity or race, everyone knows this...

Compare the genetics of a Lahori Chura and a Lahori Bhatt; both of them may be considered "Punjabis" (as a geographic term) but they aren't anywhere close in blood or race.

The tribes of Punjab have different origins and some even have vastly different cultures/languages.

 

[BringHarmony]

Punjabis are not an ethnicity or race, everyone knows this...

Race is a loaded concept.
Ethinicity is very real. Punjabis have a distinct language --Punjabi, Duh. A distinct set of physical features. A distinct cuisine and culture. They have 3 distinct religions commonly followed: Hinduism, Sikhism and Islam. Out of which 2 are native to the region: Hinduism and Sikhism. And you still insist that Punjabis are not an ethnicity.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I'm not Pakhtun, but why do you hate Pashtuns and why are you calling fellow Pashtun members here as "Afghan refugees" - let go of this ethno-nationalism and have some shame.

Mir Mannu is one such example who was responsible for killing Sikhs, many of them dying in the most painful manner. Do you know your history?

I don't hate anyone, let alone fellow Pakistanis.
In fact, Punjabis, in general, are one of the least racist ethnic groups in Sub-continent.

I don't even hate Afghans and have repeatedly stated here and elsewhere that Afghan refugees in Pakistan should not be forcibly repatriated. A lot of Pakistani members here have seriously opposed my position, some even labeling me a traitor and whatnot

But I have a low tolerance for racist bigots...


As for the Turk, Mir Mannu was the Moghul governor of Lahore who later joined Ahmed Shah Abdali. He killed Sikhs and carried out all kinds of atrocities against them on behalf of his Mughal and Afghan masters. And that exactly is what I am saying. What's your point?

Yes, I know my history but do you?

And what's your ethnicity?

Punjabis are not an ethnicity or race, everyone knows this...

Stop embarrassing yourself

 

[MultaniGuy]

Race is a loaded concept.
Ethinicity is very real. Punjabis have a distinct language --Punjabi, Duh. A distinct set of physical features. A distinct cuisine and culture. They have 3 distinct religions commonly followed: Hinduism, Sikhism and Islam. Out of which 2 are native to the region: Hinduism and Sikhism. And you still insist that Punjabis are not an ethnicity.

Now I know you are an Indian pretending to be a Canadian.

Most Punjabis in Pakistan have nothing common with Indian Punjabis. Indian Punjabis only make up 3% of Indian population. Punjabis in Pakistan make up about 44% and have intermarried with Kashmiris, Pathans, Sindhis, and Balochis.

I don't hate anyone, let alone fellow Pakistanis.
In fact, Punjabis, in general, are one of the least racist ethnic groups in Sub-continent.

I don't even hate Afghans and have repeatedly stated here and elsewhere that Afghan refugees in Pakistan should not be forcibly repatriated. A lot of Pakistani members here have seriously opposed my position, some even labeling me a traitor and whatnot

But I have a low tolerance for racist bigots...


As for Mir Mannu, He was the Moghul governor of Lahore who later joined Ahmed Shah Abdali. He killed Sikhs and carried out all kinds of atrocities against them on behalf of his Mughal and Afghan masters. And that exactly is what I am saying. What's your point?

Yes, I know my history but do you?

And what's your ethnicity?



Stop embarrassing yourself

Even if we accept Punjabis as an ethnicity, Pakistani Muslim Punjabis have nothing in common with Indian Punjabis anymore.

Pakistani Punjabis have intermarried with Kashmiris, Pathans, Balochis, and Sindhis now.

Pakistani Muslim Punjabis have nothing in common with Indian Punjabis.

Even Imran Khan who is the Prime Minister of Pakistan, is a Pathan who is Punjabized.

You do realize Pathans who adopt Punjabi culture are Punjabis too right?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Even if we accept Punjabis as an ethnicity, Pakistani Muslim Punjabis have nothing in common with Indian Punjabis anymore.

Punjabi is an ethnicity and you (or anyone else for that matter) accepting it or not won't change this FACT

And no matter how much you want to deny it the fact remains that Pakistani Punjabis share common ancestry, ethnicity, language, culture etc with Indian Punjabis

Pakistani Punjabis have intermarried with Kashmiris, Pathans, Balochis, and Sindhis now.

A Punjabi marrying Non-Punjabi in Pakistan is an exception (that too limited to large urban centers only), and not a norm

You do realize Pathans who adopt Punjabi culture are Punjabis too right?

Ethnically, No
Culturally, Yes