Max G turn rate (approx.) JF-17 14.4 deg/s vs F-16 13.33 deg/s

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan just to confirm, NO the JF17 at the 23 March parade where NOT with WS13. You sources/friends jut based that claim on an observation regarding how the engines produced lesser smoke. NO TRUTH IN THIS. I hope you will believe this and we wont be seeing this reference of new engine on every single tread. AGAIN, the JF 17 was carrying the same engine. Just to be extra sure, look at some of the pictures of the JF17 demonstration and observe the exhaust nozzles, you will realize (i hope so) that these are all same.

That friend is my source but why in Karachi JF-17 had more smoke than the one in Islamabad even if it was old engine they did something to reduce smoke and also performance was much better than last year

 

[Arsalan]

That friend is my source but why in Karachi JF-17 had more smoke than the one in Islamabad even if it was old engine they did something to reduce smoke and also performance was much better than last year

Smoke is also, i say, ALSO dependent on fuel quality.
For performance, you will see further improvement as time passes and tricks and tactics are mastered upon!! It is a no brainer.

For engine, just ask you friend whether he thinks that it was a new engine but PAF used the same exhaust nozzels to fool people? Because if you look at the pics you will see the nozzles are same. I am not sure how else this is "myth" could have been debunked because it is a physical evidence. For sensible people, a logical evidence, like, JF17 is being test flown with WS13 and you do not bring 100% ready system for PUBLIC display with the world watching. Logical enough i guess. Now with physical evidence presented as well, i hope you can ask your "friend" about this and perhaps he can cook something up in haste.

 

[messiach]

RD93 Augmented BPR being used in block2.

That friend is my source but why in Karachi JF-17 had more smoke than the one in Islamabad even if it was old engine they did something to reduce smoke and also performance was much better than last year

 

[Michael Corleone]

Which makes sense, the actual rate of JF-17 would be classified... until we hand it over to Myanmar and BD and I fully expect it to be discussed on a forum called jf-17.net just like there is a f-16.net I am looking forward to those happy days!!!

Also note the lack of thick black smoke trail on JF-17 throughout the demo. Do you know what's going on here?

In any case, I'd say this is pretty darned impressive.

RD 33 version 3
same ones mig 35 sports...

 

[Fawadqasim1]

As far i watched the jf17 aircrafts were on afterburner's throughout the act ,which is why there was no black smoke

Absolutely

 

[Sine Nomine]

It does not indicate inefficient engine cycle. It is because of the inherent design of the USSR lo-hi compressor - primary combustor assembly. The air & fuel are mixed and burnt in combustor, a over-richer mixture is easily ignitable and maintainable like diesel under pressure ignition, avoiding chances of flame-outs. That causes generation of particulate matter as black smoke. It only indicates variation in fuel/air ratio below stoichrometrics avoiding turbine meltdown. This is 727,737,DC9 era technology, still relevant today. P&W then introduced the smokeless combustor assembly.

RD-33mk is better and more fuel efficient equipped with FADEC,as compared to baseline RD-33 as claimed by klimov.
We should have ordered improved engine by now.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-vectoring-rd-133-set-for-mig-29-tests-65364/

 

[Rank]

JF-17 2:26:42 - 2:27:07, 25 sec 14.4 deg/s
F-16 2:32:57 - 2:33:24, 27 sec 13.33 deg/s

@Windjammer @JamD @gambit

I've seen LIVE this Max Turn of JF17 and F16 hundreds of times... There is no comparison of F16 with JF17 in all attributes...

 

[CriticalThought]

I've seen LIVE this Max Turn of JF17 and F16 hundreds of times... There is no comparison of F16 with JF17 in all attributes...

I have read the number 90% thrown about for Thunder's capability vs Viper. What do you make of that?

 

[Arsalan]

I've seen LIVE this Max Turn of JF17 and F16 hundreds of times... There is no comparison of F16 with JF17 in all attributes...

And you find which to be better in this aspect?

 

[litman]

such types of claims and videos generally dont have no authenticity. indians have made so many vidoes claiming their tejas more maneuverable then F-16, J-10 and JF 17.

 

[Storm Force]

Turn rates and agility comparison does not prove anything in a f16 v thunder scenario.

The f16 has bigger airframe more powerful engine and has 50%more power in all aspects be it range Twr str and is far more stable and mature platform .

Once you get inside the cockpit the radar and ew suites and jammers are also twice as powerful because the technology Is mature bigger and harder to jam.

The weapons range and load of the American fighter is also far superior .

Pakistan can attempt to bridge the gap by adding smart technology ie aesa radar better engines more weapons but the power and size advantage and load and range will remain with the falcon

 

[CriticalThought]

Turn rates and agility comparison does not prove anything in a f16 v thunder scenario.

The f16 has bigger airframe more powerful engine and has 50%more power in all aspects be it range Twr str and is far more stable and mature platform .

Once you get inside the cockpit the radar and ew suites and jammers are also twice as powerful because the technology Is mature bigger and harder to jam.

The weapons range and load of the American fighter is also far superior .

Pakistan can attempt to bridge the gap by adding smart technology ie aesa radar better engines more weapons but the power and size advantage and load and range will remain with the falcon

Can you please back those claims with authentic numerical data?

 

[Storm Force]

I'm 100% certain if a pair of s

Can you please back those claims with authentic numerical data?

Check the thrust. To weight ratio of f16 at 1.3,v thunder at .095,

Check the as range and fuel load if falcon it's a 30% bigger plane

Check the amraam bvr v SD10

Check the apg 63,and ago 69 radar v Kljj7 radar specs the USA radar is bugger and has more modules

Finally ask why Pakistan seek second used f16 rather than brand new thunders

 

[WarFariX]

We have many gems of pilots who rode thunder and make F-16 near them look like chicken in dogfight.

 

[CriticalThought]

I'm 100% certain if a pair of s




Check the thrust. To weight ratio of f16 at 1.3,v thunder at .095,

Check the as range and fuel load if falcon it's a 30% bigger plane

Check the amraam bvr v SD10

Check the apg 63,and ago 69 radar v Kljj7 radar specs the USA radar is bugger and has more modules

Finally ask why Pakistan seek second used f16 rather than brand new thunders

I was trying to see how much rigorous you are. If you read all the posts in the thread, you will see that Chak Bamu already corrected me in his post:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/max-...s-f-16-13-33-deg-s.485164/page-2#post-9320302

This thread is only about the turn rates of Thunder vs Falcon so plz don't muddy the waters with discussions of range etc. Having said that:

1. Range depends on many factors. A 30% bigger planer would need correspondingly more fuel as well for the same range.

2. You wouldn't necessarily use a BVR missile at a range of > 100 km because the enemy can easily make you waste missiles using decoys. Especially with today's DRFM counter measures such as BriteCloud.

3. The Thunder's radar is under improvement. It is meaningless to compare the radar.

4. First of all, don't spread misinformation by saying Pakistan is seeking second hand F-16 over brand new Thunders. This is factually wrong. We are seeking used F-16s in addition to brand new Thunders to beef up the numbers, because we have an already installed base of maintenance, support, and logistics.