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Last Air Battle On This Day

Wish u all a very happy & prosperous new year albeit belated,I found a new one from Air Cdre.Kaiser Tufail,sorry if posted earlier,it talks about loss of F-104 in '71,we all know about Starfighter losses in '65(Devvaya incident)Pretty balanced and unbiased assesment one must say.

Aeronaut: Air Defence in Southern Sector - 1971 War

No 32 Fighter Ground Attack Wing at Masroor was a large composite Unit, half of whose assets had been moved to the northern bases. What remained of the fighter units included No 19 Squadron with a healthy count of 26 F-86E/F [1]. No 9 Squadron moved in from Sargodha on 6 December with 7 F-104As, after completing a few strikes against forward radars in Indian Punjab. A much belated but welcome reinforcement of the air defence assets were ten Royal Jordanian Air Force F-104As that arrived in two batches, starting 13 December. A small 19-Squadron detachment of four F-86Es was positioned at the forward base of Talhar (located 100-nm east of Masroor) as the first tier of defence against raids emanating from the eastern direction, besides providing a quick-reaction force for the defence of the high-powered radar at nearby Badin.

In case of Masroor being knocked out, the runways at Drigh Road Base and Karachi Airport were well-suited for emergency recoveries, though full-scale operations could not be supported at these locations due to scanty logistics support.

Between Masroor and the next northern base of Rafiqui lay a gap of at least 350-nm without fighter cover, through which traversed Pakistan’s vital north-south railway link running as close as 25-nm from the border. Elements of Pakistan Army’s No 18 Division, which were poised for an ill-planned offensive, also lay at the mercy of the IAF as no PAF aircraft were based anywhere close.

As in the rest of the country, control of the air was essentially based on air defence missions that relied upon non-existent or suspect early warning and, disruptive night airfield strikes, with uncertain results. Base Commander Masroor, Air Cdre Nazir Latif and OC No 32 Fighter Ground Attack Wing, Gp Capt Wiqar Azim had their hands full to juggle the limited assets for the seemingly endless tasks.

Just like his colleagues at Masroor, Gp Capt Anwar Shamim, the Sector Commander, Sector Operations Centre (South) located at its war-time site at Korangi [2], was confronted with a problem of inadequate assets, particularly low level radars and night interceptors. High level radar surveillance cover in the southern air defence sector rested upon a FPS-20 radar at Badin and a P-35 radar (ex-Dacca) [3] at Malir. Another P-35 radar, which was moved from Malir to Jacobabad mid-way in the war, became operational only when the war ended. A decrepit, fifties-vintage Type-21 radar was located near Khanpur; it was scrapped soon after the war, but may well have served a useful purpose of keeping the enemy guessing, as it spewed out queer waveforms at odd hours!

Low level cover was provided by a Civil Aviation ASR-4 approach radar at Karachi Airport and an AR-1 radar at Pir Patho. The latter location was supposed to cover the south-eastern approaches, but was an unfavourable compromise due to constraints of terrain, logistics and security. As a consequence, direct flight tracks from Jamnagar to Masroor remained on the fringes of the radar footprint, and could be easily bypassed by flying a dog-leg and hugging the coast [4]. Practically thus, low level early warning in the whole Southern Sector rested on the reports by Mobile Observer Units (MOUs). Given the inherently tardy chain of reporting, as well as delays in correlation of these reports with own flight plans, the reaction by interceptors was often hopelessly delayed.

A sad reflection of this state of affairs was the shooting down of an F-86E, one of a pair which had just scrambled from Talhar and, was too late to intercept an incoming raid of three Hunters on 13 December. One of the Hunters was able to lunge on to the vulnerable F-86E as it was turning out of traffic [5]. Flg Off Nasim Baig did not survive the gun attack and his aircraft crashed near the airfield perimeter.

An unsavoury surprise came on the morning of 17 December, the last day of the war, when two Uttarlai-based MiG-21FLs escorting a flight of four HF-24s on a morning army support mission, bounced a pair of patrolling F-104s near Naya Chor. After a head-to-head blow through, both pairs turned for each other. Flt Samad Changezi, the F-104 wingman, apparently having spotted the pair earlier, split from the formation and manoeuvred to get behind the lead MiG-21. He had to close in to gun range as no missiles were being carried – an inexplicable error by the mission planners. [6] In the meantime the MiG-21 wingman, Flt Lt Arun Datta, was able to close in behind Changezi’s F-104 and fire a missile which missed its target. The F-104 leader, Flt Lt Rashid Bhatti, warned Changezi to disengage and exit as he had been fired at, but the warning was disregarded in the heat of combat. That inattention earned Changezi a fatal penalty, when a second K-13 missile slammed into his aircraft with an explosion that left no chance of ejection. [7] A squirming Bhatti thought of chasing Datta’s MiG-21 but, being low on fuel and unsuitably armed, he wisely decided against any more recklessness.

Typically, Canberra night raids were launched from Pune (some staged through Jamnagar) and Hunter daylight raids from Jamnagar, against Masroor or Karachi Harbour. These were flown in a ‘high-low-high’ profile, with the high legs flown in own territory to conserve fuel. Thus, early warning of a raid was usually available through the long range high level radars, but sooner the raiders descended to low level, the prospects of successful interception diminished exponentially. Even the F-104, whose AN/ASG-14T1 airborne radar promised a 20-nm search range in the look-up mode, was no help at low level, due to the inability of its first-generation simple pulse radar to sift through ground clutter. On a few occasions when the ground radar did manage to put the interceptor behind the target – even though after weapons release – the F-104’s radar only served to kick off the Canberra’s tail warning, resulting in evasive manoeuvring and a clean getaway.

The PAF was utterly fortunate that, despite serious air defence shortcomings in the Southern Sector, Masroor runway remained operational throughout the war. Nonetheless, on 4 December, a B-57 and two F-86Es that were being serviced, were damaged in a dusk-time rocket attack by three Hunters. Canberras also carried out incessant stream raids during the first three nights, but the main runway was damaged only once, on the night of 4/5 December. As a safety precaution, a flight of four B-57s was moved to Drigh Road Base for the next two days [8]. On the night of 5/6 December, one valuable ELINT RB-57 was destroyed and one T-33 damaged by Canberras, in what may have been a chance hit on a maintenance hangar.

The runway at Jacobabad was hit on the morning of 4 December resulting in a single crater. The ATC towers at Hyderabad and Nawabshah were damaged during morning raids the same day. On the night of 10 December, Nawabshah runway was cratered in two places following an attack by Canberras.

On the evening of 4 December, a pair of IAF fighters struck Badin radar after slipping through, unseen. The aerial head and vital components of the FPS-6 height finder were destroyed, along with extensive damage to the power house and fuel stores. The radar was recovered, with degraded performance, after a day.

After 6 December, IAF discontinued airfield strikes in earnest following substantial aircraft losses in the north and, switched its focus to interdiction of communications networks and wrecking of energy resources. A more equable appraisal by the IAF could have taken into account the gross weakness of PAF’s air defences in the Southern Sector and, it could have persisted in its counter-air campaign without let or much hindrance. The rewards that Indian Army’s Southern Command could have indirectly reaped on the ground – by not allowing PAF to be viable over the battlefield in Thar – would have been considerable.

Due to the lack of low level radar cover as well as absence of fighters in the Upper Sind area, PAF found itself completely helpless against IAF’s interdiction campaign which targeted the railway network on Landhi-Khanpur Section and, between Mirpur Khas-Naya Chor Section. Lack of AAA defences over important nodes of the network made matters worse. Nine railway stations on these sections were repeatedly targeted, with particular emphasis on the important junctions of Mirpur Khas and Rohri; the latter was attacked as many as five times. Even the An-12 transport aircraft was mustered for a massive barrage of eight tons of bombs against the latter railway station, on one occasion. Nineteen trains, including two 'special military' type, were also attacked on the above-mentioned sections, while several track segments between Reti and Khanpur were damaged. Besides the general purpose of degrading the country’s rail infrastructure on an enduring basis, IAF’s interdiction campaign in the south was more specifically meant to choke off reinforcements of men and material to the struggling 18 Division in Naya Chor. That a Pak Army relief brigade and much-needed ammunition and other supplies were still able to arrive by train, in time to staunch the onslaught of the Indian 11 Division, clearly shows that IAF’s interdiction effort in the south fell short of what was desired. It was also some solace for the PAF, much discomfited as it was, in the given situation.

IAF sporadically continued its strategic air offensive in the south against a few select energy resources, including oil storage tanks at Keamari Terminal in Karachi and the natural gas facility at Sui. Commencing with an audacious morning attack on 4 December, a flight of four Hunters [9] rocketed and strafed the sprawling storage farms at Keamari that housed about 100 tanks. The licks of flame spread to adjacent tanks and in minutes, turned into a huge inferno that continued to burn for days. Regrettably, the PAF fighters as well as the Pak Navy AAA were unable to react as there had been no warning of the attack, the Hunters having approached low from the seaward side to avoid the MOUs. While the psychological impact of the raging firestorm was devastating, the strategic reserves of POL remained largely unscathed. Not withstanding the Indian bluster about lighting the ‘biggest fires in Asia’, only five storage tanks had burnt, causing a loss of about 15,000 tons of various oils [10].

On 14 December around mid-day, a flight of four Hunters struck the country’s major natural gas facility at Sui with rockets. The attack portended the ominous direction the war was taking as the IAF operated with impunity, unchallenged from Keamari to Sui.

For air defence of VPs in the Southern Sector, PAF flew a total of 253 sorties employing F-86E/F and F-104; these included 167 day sorties and a measly 23 night sorties from Masroor, while Talhar generated 63 day sorties. Additionally, 43 CAP sorties were flown over the battle areas in Thar and Kutch. Neither ingressing nor egressing enemy aircraft could be shot down by an interceptor, in what turned out to be an almost futile air defence effort in the south. The Army AAA, however, had a fair amount of success in being able to down five enemy aircraft during the vulnerable attack phase [11].

Given the air defence assets whose quantity as well as quality left a lot to be desired, there were very few tactical tricks that could be pulled out of the proverbial hat. Defence of the country’s communications infrastructure and energy resources had been put on hold, as the order of priorities seemed to indicate. The looming concern was the do-or-die land battle, which required a totally fixated approach to tactical air support.

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[1] 12 F-86F were attached to the squadron three months prior to the war.
[2] The headquarters, which was earlier located at Badin, was moved to Korangi at the outbreak of war.
[3] This radar was retrieved from Kurmitola near Dacca in October 1971, leaving East Pakistan with no high level radar cover.
[4] The locations of all radars are believed to have been compromised by defecting Bengali personnel long before the war started.
[5] The F-86E was shot down by Flt Lt Farokh Jahangir Mehta of the Jamnagar-based Hunter OCU.
[6] Based on the 1965 War experience, PAF had modified its F-104s to carry missiles on under-wing pylons as an additional option, besides the original wingtips-only carriage. When configured with missiles on under-wing pylons and drop tanks on wingtips, the combined drag indices of external stores reduced by 45% compared to a configuration the other way around. Considerable operational benefit was thus accrued as far as combat range and endurance were concerned. As the RJAF F-104s did not have provision for such a configuration, it was decided to use these aircraft for night air defence without missiles (ie, gun only), making the wingtips available for the lower drag drop tanks. The rationale was that with the limited effort available, staying in the air for a longer duration was a better pay-off in terms of deterrence, rather than carrying out futile night interceptions in the absence of an effective low level GCI radar or a worthwhile AI radar. It so happened that Bhatti’s pair, which had deployed at Drigh Road a day earlier as a back-up to Masroor, was to return to its parent base as the war in the East had come to an abrupt end. Just before ferrying the aircraft back, the pair was asked to fly an ill-conceived ‘show of presence’ CAP between Mirpurkhas-Naya Chor. That is how an improperly armed pair ended up in a close dogfight that was not quite the F-104's forte.
[7] The downed aircraft was RJAF F-104 serial number 56-787.
[8] While other aircraft could operate from the undamaged portion, the fully-laden B-57s needed a much longer runway for take-off.
[9] The raid was led by Wg Cdr Donald Conquest, OC of the Hunter OCU at Jamnagar.
[10] Mr M Niaz, who was the Sales Development Engineer of ESSO in 1971, led the team that put out the fires. He states that out of the five tanks that were destroyed, three belonging to Dawood Petroleum Ltd contained fuel oil, one belonging to ESSO contained light diesel oil and one belonging to Pakistan Refinery Ltd contained crude oil. A subsequent hit by a Styx missile fired by an IN Osa missile boat on the night of 8/9 December, destroyed one more tank containing crude oil.
[11] AAA shot down the following aircraft in the Southern Sector:
- 1xHF-24 flown by Flt Lt P V Apte, KIA, Naya Chor, 4 December.
- 1xHF-24 flown by Flt Lt J L Bhargava, POW, Naya Chor, 5 December.
- 1xCanberra flown by Flt Lt S C Sandal (pilot) and Flt Lt K S Nanda (navigator), both KIA, Masroor, night 4/5 December.
- 1xHF-24 flown by Sqn Ldr A V Kamat, POW, Hyderabad, 9 December.
- 1xMiG-21 flown by Wg Cdr H S Gill, KIA, Badin, 13 December.


© KAISER TUFAIL
 
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To Windjammer,
Wow, just wow! 4 long posts in reply to 1 small post of mine?

In no particular order:

If you think my search on Google is fictitious , try it yourself. Just type 'Harish Sinhji IAF' and see what you get: You, of course:-)
And where did I said, Google was factious. ? It's obvious you haven't done your home work and merely imply as you go along.


How exactly do you know that it was 'earlier in the day'? I find your knowledge of that day's timeline fascinating. If you again choose to sidestep all that I write now, at least answer this!
Cherry picking again ?? !!! as this is what i said in Post#78
I emphasised that i read elsewhere to the effect that he was shot down earlier during the war.
Suffice to say, it will help if you utilize your grey matter.
I am the one who reminded you that the topic on hand is 'Last air......' You were the one who recommended that us so-called 'Nobes' read Lal's book. Will you at least now admit that you have never clapped eyes on this book?
Making wild assertion of Indian victories, criticizing my English and gloating on your seniority were the points you raised proving your priority was anything than the topic on hand and what's this nonsense you keep repeating about Lal's Holy Grail, i have come across it else where and it's also available in the local reference library along with an other title called, Touching the Sky.
" find comfort by blaming the inferiority of the Russian missiles"
What is this and when did I write this? Do not squirm your way out of this question, and point it out to me where I wrote this.
Time to swallow your pride and read your own Post# 50 to enlighten your bewildered mind.

Mig 21 was shot down by a MISSILE - no guns, no cannons etc. Indian Mig21s had very inferior missile capability in 1971 while the PAF used Sidewinders on F-86s.
"user name may not be Pakistani, but hell it's neither Christian...... Doh."
Lastly, what is wrong in having a Christian name such as mine? Please do elaborate.
Perhaps it's high time you too hold a dictionary in one hand and try to work out the answer your self. :cheers:
 
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I've said this before and I'll say it again: You truly walk a fine line between comedy and pathos!

Time to swallow your pride and read your own Post# 50 to enlighten your bewildered mind.
Mig 21 was shot down by a MISSILE - no guns, no cannons etc. Indian Mig21s had very inferior missile capability in 1971 while the PAF used Sidewinders on F-86s.
Please swallow what ever you have in your mouth and check whose post this is! Either you can't read English like you admitted earlier or you are not interested in any semblance of truth and fact.
This post was by a member called DAVY JONES.!!!!!!!

So now Lal's book is not the Holy Grail. Then why are you the one quoting it and also copy pasting its' page numbers? Why not just stick to the topic?

What is this:
"Making wild assertion of Indian victories"
? What have I said that is not supported by fact? Did you not just read what Fatman17 wrote?

Did you not also read Kaiser Tufail's blog? He clearly says Changezi was shot down on Dec 17th!

By the way, please take note of Tufail's statement that RJAF Starfighter's joined PAF from Dec 13th onwards! So another assertion by you about the RJAF jets coming after the end of the war gets flushed down:-) Let this be the last time you come up with this false statement!

I gave serious thought to whether I should believe Windjammer or Kaiser Tufail in this matter. I struggled deeply for approximately 0.0001 seconds and then I went with Kaiser. I hope you understand, Windjammer:-)

earlier in the day
is not the same thing as
he was shot down earlier during the war
. Check with Sunita if you don't believe me.

First you complain that
Oops, the page could not be found, well, what can one expect
.
When I help you with your IT skills, you react like this?

Also since you keep talking about acknowledgements for posts, just check your last 7 posts: you have one lonely acknowledgement. So by YOUR logic, nobody thinks you are making sense, not even your own compatriots.:pakistan: This should prompt YOU to get on the PM wagon and ask for support, no?
 
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Wish u all a very happy & prosperous new year albeit belated,I found a new one from Air Cdre.Kaiser Tufail,sorry if posted earlier,it talks about loss of F-104 in '71,we all know about Starfighter losses in '65(Devvaya incident)Pretty balanced and unbiased assesment one must say.

Excellent post FulcrumD!!!!!
Kaiser Tufail's blog is certainly very engrossing and he is very, very impartial and balanced! This brand new blog entry was perfectly related to the topic at hand.

I recommend that if you have some 10 minutes to spare, please go through this post from the beginning concentrating on WJ's posts.;)

By the way, I am from Aundh originally:-) How about you?
 
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Thanks,I thought so.I have been following this debate for quite sometime now,I liked both of yours posts but I must say that when it comes to the air war the Pakistani posters have a tendency to move away from facts and rely on myths more,this is true for even the senior posters here,perhaps this is the feeling of a sense of accomplishment against a stronger adversary ,maybe and nothing wrong in that but facts are facts as repeatedly echoed by some of the PAF icons I have met like Air Cmdre.Sajjad Haider,Air Marshal Masood Akhter & others.Though their view against India or IAF is as aggressive as some of the posters here they still feel that PAF official history has to be closely relooked and corrected,they also have an amount of respect for the relatively younger Indian pilots who ran the gauntlet as per the deep strike missions inside Pak during '71.

Overall debate is good but has to be supported by neutral source otherwise the whole thing goes into a slanging match.Just my thought.

By the way I live in Mumbai now.
 
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I've said this before and I'll say it again: You truly walk a fine line between comedy and pathos!
Save your cheap banter as so far you have proved a worthless adversary.
Please swallow what ever you have in your mouth and check whose post this is! Either you can't read English like you admitted earlier or you are not interested in any semblance of truth and fact.
This post was by a member called DAVY JONES.!!!!!!!
Earlier you claimed i called Google fictitious, now you are claiming I admitted to poor understanding of English, you never replied to the earlier claim, now before i do shove something into your laughing gear, prove , where did i say to that effect, either put up or shut up.
So now Lal's book is not the Holy Grail. Then why are you the one quoting it and also copy pasting its' page numbers? Why not just stick to the topic?
Let me tell you, You are a cross between a moron and a pathetic troll. !!!This is how you were portraying the book,
"When you recommended that we read the book'My life in the IAF', did you follow your own advice? Have you read it or even seen it in real life?"
"You recommended others to read Lal's book. I asked you for the opening line. Instead you forward me some page numbers. So you have basically not even seen the book in your life!"
Now let me ask you, who is generalizing the book as the holy grail, since you consider it beyond my feel or access. :lol:
Did you not also read Kaiser Tufail's blog? He clearly says Changezi was shot down on Dec 17th!
But nothing like you r gloat of two F-104s being shot down on this date.
By the way, please take note of Tufail's statement that RJAF Starfighter's joined PAF from Dec 13th onwards! So another assertion by you about the RJAF jets coming after the end of the war gets flushed down:-) Let this be the last time you come up with this false statement!
There are several theories to this, but does he say that the RJAF Starfighters participated in the battle or the PAF lost 9 such aircraft as claimed by your do daz.
I gave serious thought to whether I should believe Windjammer or Kaiser Tufail in this matter. I struggled deeply for approximately 0.0001 seconds and then I went with Kaiser. I hope you understand, Windjammer:-)
I would never consider my self as par with Kaiser, however, it's not too difficult to place you and Pushpinder Singh in a certain category. ;)
Check with Sunita if you don't believe me.
She's more interested in my actions than words, I would post you some footage but then, it may bring tears to your eyes.

Also since you keep talking about acknowledgements for posts, just check your last 7 posts: you have one lonely acknowledgement. So by YOUR logic, nobody thinks you are making sense, not even your own compatriots.:pakistan: This should prompt YOU to get on the PM wagon and ask for support, no?
Hell, you have some what hit the nail on the head since my country fellows :pakistan: did send me PM(s) to the effect stating, "Don't argue with an idiot, since HE will drag you to his own level. !!!
 
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There are several theories to this, but does he say that the RJAF Starfighters participated in the battle or the PAF lost 9 such aircraft as claimed by your do daz.

I would never consider my self as par with Kaiser, however, it's not too difficult to place you and Pushpinder Singh in a certain category. ;)

WindJ

Please excuse my poor comprehension skills but unfortunately I havent been able to extract answers for my questions from the pages that you had posted.

Will be great if you can do the honors.

Some of my questions:

Q1. How do you explain the non-involvement of 3 squadrons of PAF aircrafts in light of Longewala ( & the Raj. sector in general) and for the PN.

Q2. Any examples of a conflict where a country has enjoyed air dominance and still lost the war.

Q3. What is your opinion on KT's blog where he clearly mentions that changezi went down on the last day of the conflict.

Q4. How do you explain the non-usuage of RJAF 104's ? ( They were there for a reason , clearly PAF will be using them if it could have improved the situation)

P.S : I dont beleive in PAF's or IAF's records . Also dont give much heed to the so called 'Nuetral' sources.
If something could be concluded then it is that IAF did significant damage to the PA positions in some sectors and was successful in bombing raids deep inside the Pakistan territory.
PAF was able to successfully raid a lot of airfields and destroy infrastucture.

P.P.S : Should we really care about which AF shot down or caused more damage when the result is so clear on the ground. 71 changed the geography and deeply affected the mindset and future plans for Pakistan. I dont care if the whole IAF would have been destoryed by a single PAF fighter. It wont change the outcome of the war. From an analysis perspective, it is quite futile to judge the outcomes of tactics and aircrafts both of which are now obsolete. If it is a ego-boosting excercise then well one can carry on with it.Its no fun living in the glory of the past ( be it a ficticious one or a real one).
 
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"Earlier you claimed i called Google fictitious...where did i say to that effect,"

Check the post that you so conveniently forgotten, your own post #80. Then see my #89 post in reply to that :"If you think my search on Google is fictitious......"
Now ask your self what was called fictitious here:-)

"but does he(Kaiser Tufail) say that the RJAF Starfighters participated in the battle?"

Yes, Air Marshall Windjammer, he does say exactly that. I quote that very blog which Fulcrum posted:

"[7] The downed aircraft was RJAF F-104 serial number 56-787."

You say that"nothing like your gloat of two F-104s being shot down on this date."

For all these posts, you have been saying that Changezi did not get shot down. Now Kaiser's blog has taken care of that lie, so now you are effectively questioning the other shoot down? Slippery little fellow, our Windjammer:toast_sign:

" my country fellows did send me PM(s)......."

By the way,you did the right thing by ignoring those well-wishers who asked you to stop posting anymore. After all, is it fair to deny over a 1000 people the entertainment that your posts provide? NOOOOOOOOOO.............



"She's(Sunita) more interested in my actions than words, I would post you some footage but then, it may bring tears to your eyes. "

I remember previously requesting 'classy' posts from you all of 2011. But this truly sets a pretty high standard for 'class and dignity'. Proclaiming on a defense forum that you have physical relations with your tenant and that you have video footage of this and that you are willing to post it here? Wow....just wow!!

In retrospect, I take back my statement asking you for some restraint since I must be 10 odd years older than you. I believe the age difference must be twice that, in light of your above Sunita claims ,that too on Defence.pk!
 
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Oh, and by the way, I am still waiting for an admission or apology for all the things that I proved you were wrong about or just plain lied about:

Changezi's shootdown date.

RJAF aircraft in PAF before the end of hostilites.

PAF Starfighters not having missiles AND guns, as per yourself.

Calling the Starfighter much much older than the Mig21.

All my posts are facts, plain and simple. I have addressed your posts factually with sufficient proof, from excellent sources.

A man only gets bigger in apologizing, the apology does not diminish him.
 
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^^^^^^^^^
Don't let your dirty mind get the better of you, albeit you don't hold any high morals by repeatedly mentioning the girl's name, let me pour cold water over your desires since I sometimes give her a game of Tennis, as for your gloating banter, i'll reply you once i return from work.
BTW, one can witness the credibility of your posts as you have been thanked by none other than a banned member.
Epic Fail. !!!!
 
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^^^^^^^^^
Don't let your dirty mind get the better of you, albeit you don't hold any high morals by repeatedly mentioning the girl's name, let me pour cold water over your desires since I sometimes give her a game of Tennis, as for your gloating banter, i'll reply you once i return from work.
BTW, one can witness the credibility of your posts as you have been thanked by none other than a banned member.
Epic Fail. !!!!

WJ, I guess your are talking about me thanking John's post. Just to let you know you are wrong here again, I am not banned on this site. I don't know why you have started targeting people thanking John and Death God's posts instead of answering their straight forward questions objectively. Sign of a looser, ain't it?
 
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WJ, I guess your are talking about me thanking John's post. Just to let you know you are wrong here again, I am not banned on this site. I don't know why you have started targeting people thanking John and Death God's posts instead of answering their straight forward questions objectively. Sign of a looser, ain't it?

Hahaha, isn't he just a laugh riot, our Windjammer? Your reply was just perfect!
This is the umpteenth time he has proved his utter lack of interest in accuracy and facts. Did you see how he posted 'Davy Jones' quote in a huge red font and attributed it to me? Now he reads 'Banned' under your name!
 
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^^^^^^^^^
Don't let your dirty mind get the better of you, albeit you don't hold any high morals by repeatedly mentioning the girl's name, let me pour cold water over your desires since I sometimes give her a game of Tennis, as for your gloating banter, i'll reply you once i return from work.
BTW, one can witness the credibility of your posts as you have been thanked by none other than a banned member.
Epic Fail. !!!!

How many Epic Fails are you going to display for this forum's members?I just got into trouble in office for laughing out aloud after reading your post:yahoo:

So the video tape of you and Sunita that you wrote about is the 2 of you playing tennis? So why did you say that I would have "tears in my eyes"(as you put it) seeing it? You think even a 5 year old would believe this pathetic excuse?

Brother, keep destroying whatever credibility you have among your fellow Pakistanis with asinine posts like this. I am cool with that. But don't do it in this forum, in this post, and while replying to me. Don't worry, I won't report your nasty offer of posting aforementioned video to any mods!!!
 
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WJ, I guess your are talking about me thanking John's post.

May be he is talking about you.

Just to let you know you are wrong here again

No he isn't.

I am not banned on this site

You are not now. But most of the time in past few days you were. In fact you are one of those one or two guys who were thanking John Doe's pathetic posts. And this is the first or second time you are appearing Green. Most of the time in the past few days you were appearing PINK and even during your ban you were one of those few guys who were thanking John Doe. May be with this pathetic attitude I am optimistic that you would go pink again.;)

I don't know why you have started targeting people thanking John and Death God's posts instead of answering their straight forward questions objectively.

Why shouldn't he when those two aren't left with much to contribute and are just trying to speak BS about Sunita and ACM Lal's book and other crap.

Sign of a looser, ain't it?

No the sign of the looser is that he comments on other's English, asks pathetic questions, demands scan pages, can't reject the neutral sources given by the opponent and starts his posts with HAHAHA and HEHEHE and Wow and all such crap. :rolleyes:
 
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May be he is talking about you.



No he isn't.



You are not now. But most of the time in past few days you were. In fact you are one of those one or two guys who were thanking John Doe's pathetic posts. And this is the first or second time you are appearing Green. Most of the time in the past few days you were appearing PINK and even during your ban you were one of those few guys who were thanking John Doe. May be with this pathetic attitude I am optimistic that you would go pink again.;)



Why shouldn't he when those two aren't left with much to contribute and are just trying to speak BS about Sunita and ACM Lal's book and other crap.



No the sign of the looser is that he comments on other's English, asks pathetic questions, demands scan pages, can't reject the neutral sources given by the opponent and starts his posts with HAHAHA and HEHEHE and Wow and all such crap. :rolleyes:


Well, looks like WJ has been busy on the PM network:-)

Firstly let me explain the 'Hahaha' phrases. While reading his posts, I am racked with side splitting laughter 90% of the times. Can't I share my feelings with my closest forum buddies such as yourself?

About Jbond197 being banned once upon a time, well, he was also a new born infant once upon a time. While you are at it, why not hold that against him too? Somehow WJ and you think this is relevant to him thanking me, why, only God knows!

Sunita and Lal were mentioned by WJ, and in what context(!), you can see for yourself.

Ok, let me ask you this: What is your fair and unbiased opinion about my post #99? Since these are the statements made by WJ which relate to the 71 war, you and I can forget all the childish stuff from WJ and stick to the serious stuff.

I await your reply.:pakistan:
 
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