Kadhafi calls for jihad against Switzerland over minaret ban

[Parashuram1]

If you wish to be considered a civilized country, then you have to provide certain freedoms to your citizens. Certainly, Switzerland is a sovereign country and can enact "whites only" laws, but don't expect to be treated like a civilized country if you do so.

Hark! Look who's talking! Switzerland has hundred times better freedom and safety for minorities as compared to what Pakistan has. Did someone talk about being civilized? Didn't expect that from a country that has a track record for un-recorded religious persecutions.

Religious discrimination is a medieval mentality. The Swiss have demonstrated their bigotry and medieval mindset for the whole world to see.

And Pakistan is a very secular country where minorities grow by leaps and bounds, taking highest government positions in Daniel Streich is still a respected Swiss politician here despite initial uproar of him converting to Islam. Name me any minority in your country of a ministerial level.

The minaret ban is not an isolated incident. A Swiss girl was banned from playing basketball with her scarf. Such a ban is not imposed by any other basketball authorities, only the Swiss.

And does Pakistan and any Islamic country allow limited clothing of women around in the streets? Does for example Pakistan grant the freedom for women to be walking around in skimpy clothing if they want to? Do you allow them to wear revealing clothes if they want to show off themselves? The answer is no. Most of the time, the girl would become a target of some sick honor killing or ostracized by your society as if she murders someone.

Head-scarves, veils, minarets are not Swiss culture and we cannot allow this. First teach your country to be liberal about others and then talk.

Once again, if the laws violate basic human rights, then they will and should be challenged. Switzerland cannot enact laws restricing freedom of movement for black people, and then tell them to go home if they don't like it. I would be very surprised if this medieval Swiss law is not censored by the European Commission on Human Rights.

Since when did "race and black people" come in the middle? I thought we were talking about religion. I think it is our internal matter and we don't need to be guided with a country with its own world record in human rights and freedom of minorities. Even if we impose maximum restrictions on certain people, they would be 50 times freer in Switzerland than any day in your country.

Switzerland does not exist on a separate planet. If they want to co-exist as a civilized member of this world, they have to learn to behave themselves and hold their bigotry in check.

Don't worry, we acknowledge where we live and the world seems to have no problem with us except for Pakistanis on this forum. Our fellow Europeans love us and respect our country and we are having an excellent relationship with the entire world.

Even the Arabs and Turks haven't told us what to do about this minaret issue except a few comments but Pakistan of all the countries comes telling us what should be done. Stop being a global religious police and first handle your country.

All the Muslims are asking is the freedom to practise their religion and be treated like first class citizens. By targetting Islam specifically, the Swiss have focussed their discrimination onto a particular religion -- just because it happens to be politically acceptable these days.

Stop blowing things out of proportion, man. Those who are Swiss citizens need to behave like Swiss citizens and not Arabs first. The Muslims here are having tons of times better life than you have in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Come here and ask them yourself whether they would want to return to their home country or stay here in Switzerland. You'll be shocked at the reply.

Your argument would be more credible if the Swiss law forbade construction of all non-Christian religious buildings. It would still be bad, but it would better hide the Swiss' bigotry.

You are entitled to make your allegations rightfully when just one of your Islamic countries give even one tenth the freedom and liberty Switzerland gives all her citizens irrespective of religion.

Because they are not Pakistanis; they are Swiss residents and are entitled to freedom of religion in their place of residence.

Then don't be a religious police around the world. They are people who become our citizens knowing our laws well and our constitution at their own risk. If they don't want to, they will decide. Pakistanis don't have the right to do so. Switzerland has a track record of religious freedom that you won't be able to attain in your country for the next century. Come here and see for yourself.

India was recently placed on the list of countries with terrible religious persecution. Thought you'd like to know.

Why the hell should I care what India has to do? I am aware that they aren't really open with religion either but it is their country and their laws, What the hell do I have to do with them? is it because I am a Hindu?

Just FYI I am Swiss born and not an Indian immigrant. Just google Western Hindus and you'll get what I mean.

I never claimed anything about your religion. I don't give a r-a-t's a-s-s whether you believe in Hinduism or Shamanism. At issue is your bias as evidenced by your posts.

Are you sure? Check your post again or get your eye tested, buddy.

Your self-righteous tantrum notwithstanding, the whole point of my statement linking you to India was to highlight your pro-India bias, which is amply evident from your posts in this forum. There is nothing wrong with having such a bias. I have a pro-Pakistan bias. It's simply a matter of admitting it.

Now that you have admitted your Indian connection, you have proved my point.

I seriously cannot help you if you are obsessed with Indians. There are many points that Indians have stated rationally and I just happened to agree with them, just as I do with numerous Pakistanis. Please see how many Pakistanis I have thanked for their valuable comments that add to knowledge and contribute positively to this forum rather than the usual religious obsession that some people conduct here and are not expelled.

By ethnicity, you are an Indian since your nation was born out of the then India. How much do you know about your former motherland? Have you ever been there? Answer me these questions. I know India as much as any Swiss would do and a little better since I go there on religious pilgrimages and diplomatic work from United Nations. Visiting the place as a tourist/ delegate and staying there marks a very big difference between the two situations.

Just because I am racially part Indian doesn't mean I have to naturally align myself to New Delhi. You don't see me crying my eyes out for India's domestic issues that are sometimes discussed on this forum.

Anyway, please get your Indophilia checked. You are seriously obsessed with Indians.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Parashurm...things cleared no need to drag the topic that low..

 

[Hyde]

Relax Parashuram

you need rest............... Edited: Surf youtube

 

[Luftwaffe]

Zaki let me alter your post for Parashuram

relax...surf youtube

 

[Solomon2]

I think people underestimate the mind and motivations of Kadhafi. By openly advocating something "crazy" without an opposing response from other Libyans or the world he hammers into the minds of his subjects that he is their master and that what he says, goes.

 

[fallstuff]

Actually, if you see my first post , I have clearly mentioned that Switzerland will retaliate to any religion-themed terrorist attack that Mr. Gaddafi has to offer against us.

There is nothing in my posts like "Switzerland will crush the Islamic world" nonsense. Infact, I have even acknowledged that we are a limited military force with limited weapons capabilities BUT we will not bow down to terrorism and faith-oriented violence.

My statement regarding how Tripoli was bombed last time was merely stating the fact that how the last time Mr. Gaddafi's terrorism abetting acts had gotten his entire country to face the wrath from foreign military forces and that he doesn't seem to have learned a lesson from his previous mistakes.

Please read the comments carefully before branding me as a chest-thumping 10-year-old.

The "UN hat wearing one", buddy you are making me work on a beautiful sunny Sunday.

Lets take a look at post # 18 ,

Yeah Right! After that, we will take him and his stupid country back to stone age and expel every migrant who advocates terrorism in our country. Gaddafi forgets that we are ONE Europe

How are you going to achieve it without going to war ?

Gaddafi forgets that we are ONE Europe

Wrong. He just bought the release of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi from the Scotts. London got a big a** construction deal out of it.

Look at this excerpt from Time

Offended by Swiss newspaper portrayals of his son, Gaddafi withdrew billions in Libyan funds from Swiss banks in July of last year, prompting the Swiss president to fly to Tripoli to apologize for the arrest.

Source: Gaddafi vs. Switzerland: The Leader's Son on What's Behind the Feud - TIME
Apparently your own President understands when to fold. Ever played poker " The UN hat wearing enlightened one ?"

Minaret ban is in OUR country, it is OUR law, which WE implement with parliamentary support.

I second that. If anybody has an issue with this they can take it with Swiss Supreme Court and/or European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

He's forgotten the last time his wretched country got a taste of bombing.

"Oh the great UN hat wearing one", your salivation from the suffering of other people is contrary to the principles of UN. UN is the last refuge for hundreds of millions of people around the globe.


Lets look at post#21

Looks like the pounding that NATO gave Libyans earlier

Once agian "Oh the great UN hat wearing one", pounding the Libyans gives you carnal pleasure.

He and his stupid bunch of religious zealots won't last here more than a day, that is if they ever set their foot on Swiss soil.

You are definitely not in line with your president. He doesn't need to,
Your " Swiss president to fly to Tripoli to apologize for the arrest."
Here in U.S there is a saying, "Money talks and bulls**t walks."



Lets move on to Post # 28

I have clearly mentioned that Switzerland will retaliate to any religion-themed terrorist attack that Mr. Gaddafi has to offer against us.

You sound more like what comes off from the right wing noise machine. You sure as hell don't sound like a " The great UN hat wearing one." In an earlier post I mentioned Gaddafi is boorish. Gaddafi has already made his move, if you are not sure, ask your President.

"Switzerland will crush the Islamic world" nonsense. Infact, I have even acknowledged that we are a limited military force with limited weapons capabilities BUT we will not bow down to terrorism and faith-oriented violence

Agreed.

Please read the comments carefully before branding me as a chest-thumping 10-year-old.[/QUOTE
Disagreed. I didn't say you are ten yrs old.


Lets look at Post # 30

we cannot have Islamic influence in our country's architecture.

Why so ? Its already there. European Architecture roots back to 10th century in the Iberian Peninsula when the Islamic Moors were running the shop. It goes like,

10th Century Iberian Peninsula> Romanesque> Gothic> Renaissance>Modern
"Oh the great UN hat wearing one", you really are hurting my feelings now, I held you at such high regard. Maybe a remedial history class.......

If they don't like, they can leave and go back to wherever they came from

You nailed it. The classic line from the right wing noise machine, not worthy of a UN dignitary.



There is this laugh your a** off movie called "Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle." Harold laments that he gets called "Twinkie", Kumar asks why, Harold says "I am yellow on the outside , white inside." God knows how many times I myself got called a twinkie or a sand n****r. Hmmmm, Maybe I need to put a UN hat on !


And then there is yet another great American saying that says, " If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a freaking duck !! "

I don't think you are duck, a duck is not capable to post on the internet forums. You try to project yourself as a neutral objective third party who has no beef in a dog fight ( your UN hat) , but then you always hold the water for a certain side.

 

[BATMAN]

Get a life buddy.. you lot are OBSESSED with India AND you hate Hindus. Now we know who is the fanatic here.

Apparently it is hindus who are obssesed with Pakistan and their internal affairs. A normal Swiss would have care less to discuss on Pakistani forum the way you are firing for no reason!
Despite the fact you failed to find any Pakistani agreeing to the Qadafi news.... you have been flaming from begining.
If i was a moderator of forum, i would have treated all inidans as they do to Pakistani posters on indian forums. Just look how you are fighting with Pakistanis for no apparent provocation!
BTW... going by your formulae.... it is your press which has to be declared fanatic long before today.
I hate hindus because i have met hundreds and all of them were very fanatics and crazy when it comes to discussing their religon and cast.
Don't you see how the leadership of indian openly talk of nuking Pakistan? and attacking China?
Never have you seen how indian public behaves to Pakistanis..... and Kashmiris? and now you..... can you explain your signature?

I am a Hindu and proud to be one for I am a follower of the world's oldest faith that guide me to be the best person I can be. Your religious short-sightedness and refusal to accept Western Hindus disgusts me. If you think that we Western Hindus are not possible then even you as Pakistani Muslims are a lie in the name of existence since only Arabs are Muslims.

Can i ask which cast you come from? and don't mention of short sightedness to me.... shortsighted are those who have granted to you nationality.... we Pakistanis know most about hindus and how friendly their religon is.... since the swiss media don't like to print news about ethnic cleansing of minorities by the hands of hindus does not mean no one knows the fundamental beliefs of hinduism.

Because of your obsession with India and intolerance of non-Muslims, you consider everyone that doesn't agree with you an Indian. I care least what is happening in India and what their government does to their people for all that matters.

Sorry... to say i have seen and experienced different inidnas..... normally indians abroad always poke their nose in any Pakistani affair...
I really would be glad the day indians like you stop following the spy habitts of your.... regular indians.

Do you know the Swiss laws of immigration? You just don't migrate here and become a citizen with the drop of a hat and continue supporting radical militant organizations worldwide unlike Britain whose situation is open to the entire European continent. You need to comply with a whole host of laws to obtain Swiss citizenship, which still will be tested out of you.

Now, why the hell do you ask me this question? In any case it is not difficult basic things about swiss immmigration laws could be found on web! i respect what ever laws swiss have and i also respect what ever laws britan have! but i know why you denominate British immigrant laws and it is just becasue of same Pakistan phobia or obbsession as you described.

I am BORN a Swiss; I have proudly studied Swiss curriculum and am proud to have completed my conscription service with Schweizer Armee (Swiss Armed Forces) for three years as is required by the national law of my country and am proud to be a reserve.

Any one will be proud to hold Swiss nationality and i'm not surprised.
You come from Geneva... shouldn't you be speaking French? than why you prefer to talk in German (Schwizer instead of Suisse)?

You take everything with the view of vengeance eh? Sorry to burst your bubble but Switzerland doesn't care a fly rats as to what Gaddafi does or doesn't do. His money is taken out; many others will put in their money. You talk as if its a big deal.

Hahhh finally..... despite getting your education in swiss you talk hinglish...

I thought...Gadafi's acts may have an impact..... in singling out Muslims out of whole comunity.... since swiss (like you!) are very nationalistic.
I even heard that no Swiss buy petrol from Tamoil is it correct? and those who buy.. face consequencies!!!! not openly but their life gets hard... there cars getting punctured regularly.... etc.
may i ask where have you voted if Swiss may have asked for indiscriminate ban on foreign religons?
I wish all the best to Swiss banking sector... i would personally like to invest in the Swiss banks.. if i had enough money.

Keep talking whatever nonsense you want to: Islamophobia and what not, but Swiss laws are here as FEDERAL laws, not like that religious law you have imposing your faith's dominance over others in Islamic countries.

Now don't get me started here...
our current President was convicted by swiss courts and his conviction got reversed in a series of events which ended up making him President in a very undemocratic fashion.
would you like to explain how it can happen... while law of Swiss is supreme???
Where did you saw us imposing our faith on Swiss?
mind it... if you are proud of your old religon than Islam is also not born on 9/11 and what is printed about Islam in indian media is not our holy book.

I being non-Christian am treated with equal respect as any Swiss Christian would be. Infact, even most Muslims here are fine with the laws and are liberal minded except for a few fanatics who want to see Switzerland turned into another Arabia.

Could be because you are non-Muslim also!!! and minarate ban clearly tells us that to get respected in Swiss one need to be non-Muslim... other religons are respected to fullest.

If we wanted to get rid of Human Rights, even I won't be allowed to practice my faith. Don't talk like an ignorant.

Do you consider your self the only human in Switzerland????
Please... don't tell me that all the enlightment lies with you!

 

[BATMAN]

Hark! Look who's talking! Switzerland has hundred times better freedom and safety for minorities as compared to what Pakistan has.

Pakistan have more freedom to minorities than as compare to any other part of world..
We allow minoroties ot vote twice.... incl. hindus, but Muslims don't have this luxury in Pakistan.

Did someone talk about being civilized? Didn't expect that from a country that has a track record for un-recorded religious persecutions.

Why are you so disturbed if Pakistani talk ask you to be civilized? No doubt that you are a very uncivilized Swiss or let me say you have displayed very unSwiss behavior so far.
Don't start on Pakistan other wise some Pakistan may retaliate eventualy..... remember Swiss has to be on neutral side and not on indian side.

And Pakistan is a very secular country where minorities grow by leaps and bounds, taking highest government positions in Daniel Streich is still a respected Swiss politician here despite initial uproar of him converting to Islam. Name me any minority in your country of a ministerial level.

All i have to say is please.. .stop talking what is uncalled for!
and starting a swiss vs Pakistan similar to india vs. Pakistan! as you may do in your daily life in Swiss.
If you are interested in names than do some web search instead of shooting... Pakistan on a forum where Pakistanis have liberty to speak.

And does Pakistan and any Islamic country allow limited clothing of women around in the streets?
Why is it important? why don't you go to Pakistan or various islamic states and try limited cloths on and you will find out... looking at your postings it seems you are not here to know but to spread lies.

Does for example Pakistan grant the freedom for women to be walking around in skimpy clothing if they want to?

For example Pakistan!!!! no comments..

Do you allow them to wear revealing clothes if they want to show off themselves? The answer is no.

YOur questions ... your incorrect answers ..
In some states women have to **** in open it means they have to reveal their private parts... does this equate them to Swiss?

Most of the time, the girl would become a target of some sick honor killing or ostracized by your society as if she murders someone.

At least it is reported and dealt with... some hindu culture in far flunge villages and isolated cases needed.

Head-scarves, veils, minarets are not Swiss culture and we cannot allow this. First teach your country to be liberal about others and then talk.

what if some day Swiss ban red dots on fore heads! would you still support Swiss culture?
Teach your self some manners for this you ned to go to school and if Swiss govt. have forgotten to send you to school than you are wellcome to apply for Pakistan school on religous quota basis.

Since when did "race and black people" come in the middle?

You seems very touch on black color!!!

I thought we were talking about religion. I think it is our internal matter and we don't need to be guided with a country with its own world record in human rights and freedom of minorities. Even if we impose maximum restrictions on certain people, they would be 50 times freer in Switzerland than any day in your country.

Who is guiding your country??? what are you talking???
Don't talk about Pakistan... first go their and then form your opinion!
Or ask a Swiss who have visited Pakistan.

Don't worry, we acknowledge where we live and the world seems to have no problem with us except for Pakistanis on this forum. Our fellow Europeans love us and respect our country and we are having an excellent relationship with the entire world.

Even the Arabs and Turks haven't told us what to do about this minaret issue except a few comments but Pakistan of all the countries comes telling us what should be done. Stop being a global religious police and first handle your country.

I think... you certainly a problem... otherwise we mention no problems with Swiss.

Stop blowing things out of proportion, man. Those who are Swiss citizens need to behave like Swiss citizens and not Arabs first. The Muslims here are having tons of times better life than you have in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Come here and ask them yourself whether they would want to return to their home country or stay here in Switzerland. You'll be shocked at the reply.

No doubt Swiss is a great place to be... but what is your point.
On contrary... I highly recomend you go and interview some Swiss one who has been in Pakistan.

Then don't be a religious police around the world. They are people who become our citizens knowing our laws well and our constitution at their own risk. If they don't want to, they will decide. Pakistanis don't have the right to do so. Switzerland has a track record of religious freedom that you won't be able to attain in your country for the next century. Come here and see for yourself.

Do you have any grounds for your blames?

Why the hell should I care what India has to do? I am aware that they aren't really open with religion either but it is their country and their laws, What the hell do I have to do with them? is it because I am a Hindu?
Just FYI I am Swiss born and not an Indian immigrant. Just google Western Hindus and you'll get what I mean.

Swiss born!!! but certainly not swiss.

By ethnicity, you are an Indian since your nation was born out of the then India.

wrong...

Just because I am racially part Indian doesn't mean I have to naturally align myself to New Delhi. You don't see me crying my eyes out for India's domestic issues that are sometimes discussed on this forum.

no surprise you align your self with the best part of india...

 

[Hussein]

First show me one liberal Muslim country (Turkey is not constitutionally Islamic) that allows public celebration of non-Muslim religious events without any fear or worry in any part of their country and then talk. In Switzerland, Muslims can worship, celebrate and observe their religious tenets.

you are just going to streets with panels saying Islam is bullshit
but as you say there is no problem
even here in France they harshly criticize your behavior towards French people. Some people ask to kick out French of the country. In France these words would not be allowed but in Switzerland the hatred is shown in public and admired by the swiss people.
for me that's a big problem.

this above is saying to kick off of the country black sheeps

here it is written : be careful Islam . vote UDC for Switzerland free.

about "muslim countries" ?? then you said "islamic"
what does it mean?
in morocco many jews and christians are there. in turkey you said.
In Lebanon all live together .
In Iran is the biggest country in the region for having jew people. Armenian and orthodox armenian christian are free and have churchs. just the women wear scarf.
in Yazd is allowed the old religion of Iran.
Sadly in some country it is not.
but hey? because a country is not tolerant you should do the same?
why not take exemple on countries which are acting good instead of pointing your finger on "islamic " countries which are acting not good in this matter???

That is the opinion of certain parties and has nothing to do with what Swiss laws are made for. Swiss laws are specifically meant for retaining our culture. If we were not comfortable with globalization, we won't have allowed any other faith but Christianity in our country. But you see me and many other non-Christian proud Swiss citizens.

lol
what an answer!
we are speaking about racism becoming bigger and bigger in your country. if it comes to this point that only christians are allowed all european countries would boycott you. and all muslim countries . and most countries in the world.

Europe is any day saner than what is there in Middle East and Southern Asia so don't worry about our sanity. And thanks that you feel Mr. Gaddafi is an idiot... very few people here would agree with this.

Indonesia is not so bad for exemple.
I go often there. And in Dubai as well. Dubai is very tolerant.
Well many countries have still problems
but it doesn't allow any country to say then it is allowed to show so much racism

 

[Cheetah786]

Hark! Look who's talking! Switzerland has hundred times better freedom and safety for minorities as compared to what Pakistan has. Did someone talk about being civilized? Didn't expect that from a country that has a track record for un-recorded religious persecutions.



And Pakistan is a very secular country where minorities grow by leaps and bounds, taking highest government positions in Daniel Streich is still a respected Swiss politician here despite initial uproar of him converting to Islam. Name me any minority in your country of a ministerial level.



And does Pakistan and any Islamic country allow limited clothing of women around in the streets? Does for example Pakistan grant the freedom for women to be walking around in skimpy clothing if they want to? Do you allow them to wear revealing clothes if they want to show off themselves? The answer is no. Most of the time, the girl would become a target of some sick honor killing or ostracized by your society as if she murders someone.

Head-scarves, veils, minarets are not Swiss culture and we cannot allow this. First teach your country to be liberal about others and then talk.




Since when did "race and black people" come in the middle? I thought we were talking about religion. I think it is our internal matter and we don't need to be guided with a country with its own world record in human rights and freedom of minorities. Even if we impose maximum restrictions on certain people, they would be 50 times freer in Switzerland than any day in your country.



Don't worry, we acknowledge where we live and the world seems to have no problem with us except for Pakistanis on this forum. Our fellow Europeans love us and respect our country and we are having an excellent relationship with the entire world.

Even the Arabs and Turks haven't told us what to do about this minaret issue except a few comments but Pakistan of all the countries comes telling us what should be done. Stop being a global religious police and first handle your country.



Stop blowing things out of proportion, man. Those who are Swiss citizens need to behave like Swiss citizens and not Arabs first. The Muslims here are having tons of times better life than you have in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Come here and ask them yourself whether they would want to return to their home country or stay here in Switzerland. You'll be shocked at the reply.



You are entitled to make your allegations rightfully when just one of your Islamic countries give even one tenth the freedom and liberty Switzerland gives all her citizens irrespective of religion.



Then don't be a religious police around the world. They are people who become our citizens knowing our laws well and our constitution at their own risk. If they don't want to, they will decide. Pakistanis don't have the right to do so. Switzerland has a track record of religious freedom that you won't be able to attain in your country for the next century. Come here and see for yourself.



Why the hell should I care what India has to do? I am aware that they aren't really open with religion either but it is their country and their laws, What the hell do I have to do with them? is it because I am a Hindu?

Just FYI I am Swiss born and not an Indian immigrant. Just google Western Hindus and you'll get what I mean.



Are you sure? Check your post again or get your eye tested, buddy.



I seriously cannot help you if you are obsessed with Indians. There are many points that Indians have stated rationally and I just happened to agree with them, just as I do with numerous Pakistanis. Please see how many Pakistanis I have thanked for their valuable comments that add to knowledge and contribute positively to this forum rather than the usual religious obsession that some people conduct here and are not expelled.

By ethnicity, you are an Indian since your nation was born out of the then India. How much do you know about your former motherland? Have you ever been there? Answer me these questions. I know India as much as any Swiss would do and a little better since I go there on religious pilgrimages and diplomatic work from United Nations. Visiting the place as a tourist/ delegate and staying there marks a very big difference between the two situations.

Just because I am racially part Indian doesn't mean I have to naturally align myself to New Delhi. You don't see me crying my eyes out for India's domestic issues that are sometimes discussed on this forum.

Anyway, please get your Indophilia checked. You are seriously obsessed with Indians.

How old is your country compare to pakistan?

 

[asq]

Yeah Right! After that, we will take him and his stupid country back to stone age and expel every migrant who advocates terrorism in our country. Gaddafi forgets that we are ONE Europe. Minaret ban is in OUR country, it is OUR law, which WE implement with parliamentary support.

Looks like amnesia is setting in on this loser.. He's forgotten the last time his wretched country got a taste of bombing.

You are so naive, Muslims came to europe becuase it calls it self secular and the champion of freedom of Religions. dude.

What gives. Dude.

either u r christian or u r Secular dude.. WHAT IS THE TRUTH.

Pleaase declare yioueselves to be chritian country, stop calling yourselves Seculars with false claims of freedom, we have no problem, but tell us the truth. Dude.

To bash Gadafi, that is an uncivilised act, many europens have called for bombing Muslims countries to stone age, we never insult them, but u dude are a strange one. And a doulbe standard to boot.
Dude.

 

[MilesTogo]

secularism is a two way street. one can not be secular with a non-secular.

 

[Developereo]

And Pakistan is a very secular country where minorities grow by leaps and bounds.

From an article in chowk.com:

Non-muslims are amongst the most talented and the most patriotic Pakistanis. Justice Bhagwan Das of the Supreme Court is held to amongst the most honest judges serving right now. Pakistan’s best fashion designer is a Hindu (Deepak Parwani), and the best model is a christian (Sunita Marshall). The owners of the largest hotel chain (Avari Hotels) are parsis. The best batsman in Pakistan’s cricket team is a christian (Youhanna), and the best leg spinner in Pakistan is a Hindu. Pakistan’s best drummer is a goan christian (Gumby of Junoon and Noori fame), some of Pakistan’s leading musicians are christians including bands like Saraab and Aks. Even our best novelist in English is arguably a Parsi. Their contribution in fields of defence, education and nation-building is undeniable. Some of Pakistan’s best fighter pilots were christians. Pakistan’s best institutions like Kinnaird College etc are still run by non-muslims.

Name me any minority in your country of a ministerial level.

Shahbaz Bhatti, federal minister of Minorities Affairs is a Catholic. In case you are interested, many other Muslim countries from Morocco to Malaysia have non-Muslims (even Jews - gasp!) in important ministerial posts.

And does Pakistan and any Islamic country allow limited clothing of women around in the streets? Does for example Pakistan grant the freedom for women to be walking around in skimpy clothing if they want to? Do you allow them to wear revealing clothes if they want to show off themselves? The answer is no.

Every country has rules for dressing in public based on the prevalent norms of morality and decency. These rules are NOT based on religious affiliation. Most Western countries do not allow topless or nude appearance (except in restricted areas).

Head-scarves, veils, minarets are not Swiss culture and we cannot allow this.

Nonsense. The 'culture' canard has been busted long ago. People who had no problems with beards all this time are now deciding that beards are alien. Jewish yarmulkas never raised an eyebrow, but Muslim women's headscarves are considered an affront to cultural sensibilities.

I accept that veils and burqas should not be allowed in certain public places. It is a valid security issue -- people have to take off motorcycle helmets in banks, for example. What I object to is the way the debate was phrased as a religious/cultural issue rather than as a valid public safety issue.

And incidently, Italians wear headscarves all the time, so headscarves are not alien to Swiss culture. I know the dynamics of Switzerland quite well, including the mix of Italian/German/French/Romanche cultures.

First teach your country to be liberal about others and then talk.

Our mainstream media does not promote hatred and bigotry against our own citizens based on religion. Our media does not stereotype and marginalize our Christian brothers and sisters the way Western media does to its Muslim citizens.

The media's role is to promote communal harmony and mutual understanding. The Western media has failed miserably and is actively involved in promoting unjustified Islamophobia.

Since when did "race and black people" come in the middle? I thought we were talking about religion. I think it is our internal matter

We are talking about human rights. Freedom of religion is a basic human right and, as signatory to international laws on the matter, Switzerland is obligated to provide such freedom to all its residents. Yes, even the Muslim ones.

Such commitments to principle are needed precisely in the face of mob mentality fanned by xenophobic demagogues.

And basic human rights are not an internal matter. Not in the 21st century.

Don't worry, we acknowledge where we live and the world seems to have no problem with us except for Pakistanis on this forum. Our fellow Europeans love us and respect our country and we are having an excellent relationship with the entire world.

I am sure you can find like-minded people in Europe who will support you in your stance against "Islamization". As stated earlier, Europe is in the throes of resurgent racism, dressed up as secularism and cultural resistance, so you will find many racists and bigots who will agree with you.

Those who are Swiss citizens need to behave like Swiss citizens and not Arabs first.

Where do you draw the line on culture? Should Asian immigrants stop using chopsticks when they move to Switzerland? Japanese should stop eating sushi and Indians/Pakistanis should stop eating curry in public?

Why does it bother anybody if some schoolgirl wants to wear the headscarf? Especially if they weren't bothered by the Jewish yarmulka all these years.

The fact is that there is a lot of racism in Europe. Many people don't like all non-white immigrants, but they can't say anything against Asians, Indians and Hispanics because of political correctness. So they take out their frustrations by ganging up on the one group where the media has made it politically acceptable to be a bigot.

The Muslims here are having tons of times better life than you have in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Come here and ask them yourself whether they would want to return to their home country or stay here in Switzerland. You'll be shocked at the reply.

Since I live in a Western country, the reply will not shock me. What may shock you, though, is to realize that almost all migration to the West is economic migration. It has nothing to do with so-called lack of freedoms. Most people would migrate to communist China if there were economic opportunities for migrants over there.

You are entitled to make your allegations rightfully when just one of your Islamic countries give even one tenth the freedom and liberty Switzerland gives all her citizens irrespective of religion.

But you are not entitled to make blanket assertions about "Islamic countries" when you have no knowledge of the matter. The Western media has an agenda to promote negative stories about Muslims and downplay positive news. Non-Muslims in "Islamic countries" like Morocco, Turkey, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. enjoy all the freedoms you boast about.

Pakistan TV broadcast Christmas mass live on national TV. When's the last time Swiss TV broadcast Muslim prayers?

Switzerland has a track record of religious freedom that you won't be able to attain in your country for the next century. Come here and see for yourself.

I lived in Genève for several years. I know and like the Swiss people. But I am absolutely disgusted by this law.

Why the hell should I care what India has to do?
[...]
is it because I am a Hindu?

Just FYI I am Swiss born and not an Indian immigrant. Just google Western Hindus and you'll get what I mean.
[...]
the usual religious obsession that some people conduct here

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is you who is obsessed with religion. I never mentioned your religion, only India. It is you who brought Hinduism into our discussion. As I mentioned earlier, I am not interested in your religion. If you are proud to be Hindu, good for you, but it is not relevant to the discussion.

By ethnicity, you are an Indian since your nation was born out of the then India.

We acknowledge and are proud of our Indian heritage. Just as we are proud of the Muslim, Persian and other influences to our culture.

You are seriously obsessed with Indians.

Wrong.

I am obsessed with honesty. You pretend to be a neutral contributor with unbiased observations, but you have a decidedly pro-India (and often anti-Pakistan) bias in your posts. That is why I taunted you with that bit about India's sorry record on religious-rights.

As I stated earlier, there is nothing wrong with bias. There are many Indians on this forum and we have many debates; we agree on some issues and disagree on others. But they are honest and upfront about their bias.

That is all I wanted to establish -- your pro-India bias. Since you have acknowledged your Indian roots, we have established your bias and the matter is resolved.

 

[Parashuram1]

If you wish to be considered a civilized country, then you have to provide certain freedoms to your citizens. Certainly, Switzerland is a sovereign country and can enact "whites only" laws, but don't expect to be treated like a civilized country if you do so.

Hark! Look who's talking! Switzerland has hundred times better freedom and safety for minorities as compared to what Pakistan has. Did someone talk about being civilized? Didn't expect that from a country that has a track record for un-recorded religious persecutions.

Religious discrimination is a medieval mentality. The Swiss have demonstrated their bigotry and medieval mindset for the whole world to see.

And Pakistan is a very secular country where minorities grow by leaps and bounds, taking highest government positions in Daniel Streich is still a respected Swiss politician here despite initial uproar of him converting to Islam. Name me any minority in your country of a ministerial level.

The minaret ban is not an isolated incident. A Swiss girl was banned from playing basketball with her scarf. Such a ban is not imposed by any other basketball authorities, only the Swiss.

And does Pakistan and any Islamic country allow limited clothing of women around in the streets? Does for example Pakistan grant the freedom for women to be walking around in skimpy clothing if they want to? Do you allow them to wear revealing clothes if they want to show off themselves? The answer is no. Most of the time, the girl would become a target of some sick honor killing or ostracized by your society as if she murders someone.

Head-scarves, veils, minarets are not Swiss culture and we cannot allow this. First teach your country to be liberal about others and then talk.

Once again, if the laws violate basic human rights, then they will and should be challenged. Switzerland cannot enact laws restricing freedom of movement for black people, and then tell them to go home if they don't like it. I would be very surprised if this medieval Swiss law is not censored by the European Commission on Human Rights.

Since when did "race and black people" come in the middle? I thought we were talking about religion. I think it is our internal matter and we don't need to be guided with a country with its own world record in human rights and freedom of minorities. Even if we impose maximum restrictions on certain people, they would be 50 times freer in Switzerland than any day in your country.

Switzerland does not exist on a separate planet. If they want to co-exist as a civilized member of this world, they have to learn to behave themselves and hold their bigotry in check.

Don't worry, we acknowledge where we live and the world seems to have no problem with us except for Pakistanis on this forum. Our fellow Europeans love us and respect our country and we are having an excellent relationship with the entire world.

Even the Arabs and Turks haven't told us what to do about this minaret issue except a few comments but Pakistan of all the countries comes telling us what should be done. Stop being a global religious police and first handle your country.

All the Muslims are asking is the freedom to practise their religion and be treated like first class citizens. By targetting Islam specifically, the Swiss have focussed their discrimination onto a particular religion -- just because it happens to be politically acceptable these days.

Stop blowing things out of proportion, man. Those who are Swiss citizens need to behave like Swiss citizens and not Arabs first. The Muslims here are having tons of times better life than you have in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Come here and ask them yourself whether they would want to return to their home country or stay here in Switzerland. You'll be shocked at the reply.

Your argument would be more credible if the Swiss law forbade construction of all non-Christian religious buildings. It would still be bad, but it would better hide the Swiss' bigotry.

You are entitled to make your allegations rightfully when just one of your Islamic countries give even one tenth the freedom and liberty Switzerland gives all her citizens irrespective of religion.

Because they are not Pakistanis; they are Swiss residents and are entitled to freedom of religion in their place of residence.

Then don't be a religious police around the world. They are people who become our citizens knowing our laws well and our constitution at their own risk. If they don't want to, they will decide. Pakistanis don't have the right to do so. Switzerland has a track record of religious freedom that you won't be able to attain in your country for the next century. Come here and see for yourself.

India was recently placed on the list of countries with terrible religious persecution. Thought you'd like to know.

Why the hell should I care what India has to do? I am aware that they aren't really open with religion either but it is their country and their laws, What the hell do I have to do with them? is it because I am a Hindu?

Just FYI I am Swiss born and not an Indian immigrant. Just google Western Hindus and you'll get what I mean.

I never claimed anything about your religion. I don't give a r-a-t's a-s-s whether you believe in Hinduism or Shamanism. At issue is your bias as evidenced by your posts.

Are you sure? Check your post again or get your eye tested, buddy.

Your self-righteous tantrum notwithstanding, the whole point of my statement linking you to India was to highlight your pro-India bias, which is amply evident from your posts in this forum. There is nothing wrong with having such a bias. I have a pro-Pakistan bias. It's simply a matter of admitting it.

Now that you have admitted your Indian connection, you have proved my point.

I seriously cannot help you if you are obsessed with Indians. There are many points that Indians have stated rationally and I just happened to agree with them, just as I do with numerous Pakistanis. Please see how many Pakistanis I have thanked for their valuable comments that add to knowledge and contribute positively to this forum rather than the usual religious obsession that some people conduct here and are not expelled.

By ethnicity, you are an Indian since your nation was born out of the then India. How much do you know about your former motherland? Have you ever been there? Answer me these questions. I know India as much as any Swiss would do and a little better since I go there on religious pilgrimages and diplomatic work from United Nations. Visiting the place as a tourist/ delegate and staying there marks a very big difference between the two situations.

Just because I am racially part Indian doesn't mean I have to naturally align myself to New Delhi. You don't see me crying my eyes out for India's domestic issues that are sometimes discussed on this forum.

Anyway, please get your Indophilia checked. You are seriously obsessed with Indians.

 

[Parashuram1]

How are you going to achieve it without going to war ?

By quelling any potential terrorist movements inspired by Gaddafi in our country. We don't need to let his citizens suffer because of his sick mentality.

Wrong. He just bought the release of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi from the Scotts. London got a big a** construction deal out of it.

Look at this excerpt from Time

Quote:
Offended by Swiss newspaper portrayals of his son, Gaddafi withdrew billions in Libyan funds from Swiss banks in July of last year, prompting the Swiss president to fly to Tripoli to apologize for the arrest.
Source: Gaddafi vs. Switzerland: The Leader's Son on What's Behind the Feud - TIME
Apparently your own President understands when to fold. Ever played poker " The UN hat wearing enlightened one ?"

My dear Bangladeshi friend, Trade and commerce is very different from counter terrorism. My statement to say ONE Europe was with reference to the fact that we have limited military capabilities and therefore if the need be to go on a full scale conflict and Swiss security is threatened, our neighbours and we have agreements about protecting us.

I second that. If anybody has an issue with this they can take it with Swiss Supreme Court and/or European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

There you go.

"Oh the great UN hat wearing one", your salivation from the suffering of other people is contrary to the principles of UN. UN is the last refuge for hundreds of millions of people around the globe.

Do you actually think that we would be attacking Tripoli with our armed forces? Please remember that these bombings were done as a response to Mr. Gaddafi's inspiring of terrorist activities against certain countries. I didn't imply that we will bomb Libya. We Swiss don't attack innocent civilians who have no ill-intentions towards us, just because they have a crazy dictator.


Lets look at post#21

Once agian "Oh the great UN hat wearing one", pounding the Libyans gives you carnal pleasure.

Do twist my sentences to your convenience. Please read above responses.

You are definitely not in line with your president. He doesn't need to,
Your " Swiss president to fly to Tripoli to apologize for the arrest."
Here in U.S there is a saying, "Money talks and bulls**t walks."

I know about my country well enough buddy. Let me take another example of your case. If suppose you have good ties with Myanmar in commerce and trade and then suddenly Burmese regime starts inspiring terrorist activities in your country... would you abandon trade and defend your country or stand there and continue to suffer? Any aggression from our side would be against terrorists and their agencies.

You sound more like what comes off from the right wing noise machine. You sure as hell don't sound like a " The great UN hat wearing one." In an earlier post I mentioned Gaddafi is boorish. Gaddafi has already made his move, if you are not sure, ask your President.

If defending my country is called right wing noise machine, feel free to make yourself happy with your assumptions. Check on your country's threads on this forum which is nothing but gasbag of aggression against your neighbour India. Now that is called right wing noise machine.

Disagreed. I didn't say you are ten yrs old.

Chest thumping is done by kids of that age normally and I meant it as a figure of speech.

Why so ? Its already there. European Architecture roots back to 10th century in the Iberian Peninsula when the Islamic Moors were running the shop. It goes like,

10th Century Iberian Peninsula> Romanesque> Gothic> Renaissance>Modern
"Oh the great UN hat wearing one", you really are hurting my feelings now, I held you at such high regard. Maybe a remedial history class.......

And perhaps you need to stop thinking that everything that happens in history doesn't need to necessarily exist all over again. You were earlier a part of Pakistan and for centuries were a part of British empire and before that a part of India... then shouldn't you according to your logic be ruled by Delhi?

You nailed it. The classic line from the right wing noise machine, not worthy of a UN dignitary.

Switzerland is a country with its own culture and way of life. The migrants chose to come here knowing what they will have to choose and face. We didn't beg them. And what's more, everyone else is staying here proudly. We honor and respect everyone with dignity and respect and give them the same benefits that we do to our citizens. Expatriates are welcome as long as they respect the Swiss laws and way of life. I am not against that.

But they must know that this is not their country and everything ideal according to them cannot exist. I was merely stating that and nothing more. As for right wing noise machine, check the posts about your country on this forum and the enemies that it sees everywhere around itself. So much for right wing noise making.



There is this laugh your a** off movie called "Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle." Harold laments that he gets called "Twinkie", Kumar asks why, Harold says "I am yellow on the outside , white inside." God knows how many times I myself got called a twinkie or a sand n****r. Hmmmm, Maybe I need to put a UN hat on !


And then there is yet another great American saying that says, " If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a freaking duck !! "

I don't think you are duck, a duck is not capable to post on the internet forums. You try to project yourself as a neutral objective third party who has no beef in a dog fight ( your UN hat) , but then you always hold the water for a certain side.